£200-300 Turntables - am I expecting too much ?

Vogon

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Hi I have recently taken delivery of an Edwards Audio Apprentice II lite.
I am happy with the sound quality, and on a new record it has impressively low noise between tracks.
But what I do have is a noticeable but fairly quiet hum when rotating, not through speakers, from the TT itself.
And I can hear what sounds like small speed fluctuations in the music.
Is this to be expected at this price range, or have I got a friday afternoon one ?
 
Hello Vogon,

Regarding the hum, place a screwdriver handle hard against your ear and the other end on the deck of the T/T, spin the T/T platter by hand, not electric, if your can't hear the noise, then the hum is the electricity in the motor windings you can hear.
As for speed fluctuations, you need to get a stroboscopic disk, they are usually made of thin plastic or aluminium, with three or four bands of lines or dots on it, one band for each of the turntable speeds. This slips over the centre spindle like a record. When the T/T is spinning and the disc is illuminated by a fluorescent light, one of the bands will appear to be stationary. if the band, for instance, 33 and 1/3 for LP's, appears to be moving forward or backwards very slowly, then the speed of the T/T is deviating from it's intended speed, therefore, verifying your perceived speed fluctuations.
I hope this helps you.

Kind regards,

Ron.
 
The speed fluctuations I have confirmed with a phone app called "rpm speed and wow".
This consistently measures +/- 0.5-0.6% fluctuation, from what I have read it should be <0.2%
The seller advises me to leave the turntable running overnight to bed it in, which does make some sense to me so I will see if that helps cure the speed variation.

As I am bedding in the motor I am reluctant to stop it to try your test, but the hum does sound like its motor windings or vibration transference.
I can not feel any vibrations when touching the plinth.
However, I have just discovered, removing the lid makes it almost inaudible when listening up close.
Lid on and in the up position, you can hear it several feet away, and even more so when its down.
It looks like playing records will need to be done sans lid.

..The penny drops, stop sniggering at the back :p
 
Ok so this morning I tested after 12 hours running, no change in speed variation its still coming back 0.59%.
Having checked what a few similary priced decks are supposed to do, it would appear I am not expecting too much, so Maybe I have a Friday afternoon one, maybe they are all variable and its the luck of the draw as to if you get a good one.

I am giving it another 12 hours running in the hope it settles in, but if not I have a dilemma:

I am happy with its sound and it is also a better signal to noise than I was expecting.
I played a brand new LP and was even turning it up between tracks and not hearing any rumble , but I do notice the speed fluctuations.
So do I get a replacement, or look for a different make ?
I can't see any other decks in that price range returning the >75db s/n that this is quoted as.
 
It’s not a brand I’m familiar with (always been a Rega person) but rotating at a constant speed (and ideally the correct speed) is a fairly fundamental function for the turntable. Otherwise the fluctuations could quickly be very audible. It’s quite a cheap deck though, so maybe that is what you realistically get for the price. Maybe the power supply simply isn’t good enough to produce a sufficiently stable output.
 
It is basically Rega Planar 1 mechanicals with a different plinth/platter.
 
I thought it looked a bit like that. I’m a bit spoilt as I’m currently using a P9 which goes to huge technical lengths to get the timing basically perfect, but that does make a major difference in practice (but an utterly different price range). Would be good to get the view from a Planar 1 user to see what is typical. I used to have a Planar 3 (the old model) and the timing on that was not perfectly stable, but that was just pre-CD so it was simply the way it was.
 
From what I have been finding trawling the internet, Rega don't have great wow and flutter specs on paper for the lower price range.
Having said that, neither do Pro-Ject.
 
Yes, 0.6% w&f using a phone app is very bad.

RPM app reads about 0.12 - 0.14% on my Technics SL12010 Mk2 & Rega RP10. I imagine 0.5% would be quite audible

It is basically Rega Planar 1 mechanicals with a different plinth/platter.

Did a little search and one website says it's made by a Rega ex-employee.

Personally I would send t back and give a Rega Planar 1 a try. Reject it within your 14 days, because of you keep hold of it you may end up having to get it repaired.
 
Additionally, if you ever want to sell it on that may be hard to shift due to it being an unknown brand, not so with a Rega.
 
The worry of trying the planar 1 is its the same motor and specs.
To me , resale is way down the list, primary is for me to be happy with it ;)
 
Looking at alternatives, keeping in mind W&F, Pioneer PLX500, Fluance RT81, Audio Technica LP120 or maybe even House Of Marley Stir It Up ….

I still have an issue getting past plastic plinths though :p
 
These are mine on a planar 1. They were higher on first go, but after putting my phone above the spindle it gave me these better results. Just to give you an idea of similar tables.
Screenshot_20200122-214407.jpg
Screenshot_20200122-214357.jpg
 
That certainly looks better ;)
 
It was quite a bit worse (33.58 ave rpm) when i just put my phone near the edge of the platter. If improved a lot when I put a plastic kids cup central above the spindle and the phone as central as I could on thee cup. How did you put your phone on the platter?
 
The worry of trying the planar 1 is its the same motor and specs.

Specs mean nothing. I would way prefer a Planar 1 with platter, etc that was designed for it.

Looking at alternatives, keeping in mind W&F, Pioneer PLX500, Fluance RT81, Audio Technica LP120 or maybe even House Of Marley Stir It Up ….

Don't get a PLX500. They are rebadged Hanpins OEM's and Pioneer have just rebadged them and whacked a premium on it. The Audio Technica is a Hanpin, as the PLX500, but better value.
 
@Timbo21 Good to know the Pioneer and AT are basically the same, the Pioneer is heavier and has a £36 higher cost at the cheapest place I could find. But the cartridge on the pioneer is unknown whereas the AT has the well regarded AT-VM95E.

@TheHighFlyingBirds I put a roll of duct tape centrally and placed the phone on that.
I believe it needs to be central to provide the most accurate results.

Looking at it, I now think the Edwards TT has the older spec motor as it doesn't have a separate plug in power lead with the transformer built into the plug as per the Rega Planar 1.
 
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Yup. Stick with Rega/Project at low end.

They know by now what their doing.
 
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Well, I am hoping TheHighFlyingBirds results are the norm, as I have followed all your advice and organised return of the Edwards TT. The seller has been very helpful, which is good.

I have ordered a Planar 1 from Amazon, and before anything else, when it arrives, I will test the W&F.
If it isn't good enough at least the return should be straightforward.
 
Well the Rega tests a lot better, straight out of the box and consistently 0.14 to 0.15% and no motor noise, even with the lid down you can only just hear something up real close.
Obviously the specs found on the internet refer to the older motors, not the 24v ones.

Despite having the same (albeit rebranded) cartridge their is a slight difference in sound.
Seems a little more top end detail but a little less punchy in the bass.

I am wondering if that is down to the platter as the Edwards had a perspex one running without mat.
Would replacing the felt mat on the Rega with an acrylic one would bring a some of that bass punch back ?
 
Oh and the cue lever seem to have very little damping, is their a way to increase this ?
Its not a deal breaker, I'll just get used to it if it can not be changed.
 
Despite having the same (albeit rebranded) cartridge their is a slight difference in sound.
Seems a little more top end detail but a little less punchy in the bass.

I am wondering if that is down to the platter as the Edwards had a perspex one running without mat.
Would replacing the felt mat on the Rega with an acrylic one would bring a some of that bass punch back ?

I've got a 3mm Achromat and that gives a bit more punch, but that is £60. You could try a 3mm cork or whatever takes your fancy. I think the stock felt is 2mm. Raising it that little bit should slightly help in itself. If the arm is a bit too high then you will get a thinner sound, so slightly raising the other end with a mat should help to fill it out slightly.
 
Glad the rega is performing better. How do you mean the cue lever has very little damping?

Cant comment on platter, but I do want an acrylic one, whether it sounds better i dont know, just looks more aesthetically pleasing. Oh i recommend a AT95VM carts for a good upgrade, I got the elliptical model and pretty happy with it. Maybe in future I'll upgrade the stylus.

If you get a cork mat, let us know if it makes a difference.
 
I have just ordered an acrylic mat to try.
As for damping, when you lower the lever the tonearm rest is damped so it lowers the stylus slowly onto the record.
On the The Rega this does not have as much damping, so it drops quicker, not a problem as I just slowly move the lever instead.
 
As for damping, when you lower the lever the tonearm rest is damped so it lowers the stylus slowly onto the record.
On the The Rega this does not have as much damping, so it drops quicker, not a problem as I just slowly move the lever instead.

I don't know of any adjustment for that.
 

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