Adjust LFE level with Yamaha receivers

Colin151

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I think the answer is no, but does anyone know if it Is possible to adjust the relative level of the 0.1 LFE channel level separately with Yamaha receivers? That is the very low bass track, I’ve had in the past a 3067, 3040, 3050 and 3060 and not found a way to do it. I don’t think it’s there in any of the settings. It’s strange as most other receiver brands I’ve tried have the ability to adjust it, - usually under a setting called LFE or LFE level. You can adjust it from 0 into minus numbers with the Pioneer SC LX59 for example. With the Yamahas it’s stuck at max volume (0).

With the Yamahas there is a subwoofer trim setting but this isn’t the same thing as adjusting the relative LFE level.

It’s a very strange oversight by Yamaha. Their much older receivers had this setting (I remember my old DSP-A1 did)
 
No AV receiver fascilitates controlling the level of the LFE channel independantly.

The LFE channel's level is relative to the reference the audio was mixed at and your AV receiver will calibrate its own levels relative to this same reference standard. The LFE channel's portrayal would be determined by the settings being applied to the subwoofer, but the subwoofer's own level ism't only applicable to the LFE channel.





As said, no AV receiver has any setting that would control the level of the LFE channel independently. The only levels you control are those associated with the speakers and subwoofer that are portraying the audio and the LFE channel is a discrete element of the audio as opposed to being a speaker in your setup. The only setting you get on a receiver that would be applicable to just the LFE channel is an LPF of LFE filter. This isn't anything to do with the associated level though and is a filter that can be applied to a discrete LFE channel if present. Even if a receiver includes such a filter (which many dopn't) , you'd be recommended to not set it to anything other than its default 120Hz. You'd do this because120Hz is the ceiling for the LFE channel in association with Dolby encoded soundtracks. THe inclusive of an LPF of LFE setting doesn't mean you should use it or imply that a receiver without such a setting as in any way impeded. It is basically a setting that isn't required and shouldn't be set to anything other than its default 120Hz.


If you wish to modify the level at which the LFE channel is being portrayed to suit your own preferences then increase or decrease the level associated with the subwoofer. The subwoofer is ordinarilly the only speaker portraying the LFE channel in a normal configuration.
 
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Thanks for the reply. I know that the LFE channel is a discrete element of the audio in said multichannel soundtrack as opposed to being a particular speaker, but what you are saying isn’t true. Some receivers do Indeed allow you to control the LFE track volume independently of subwoofer levelss and other speaker levels. It’s a relative volume setting of the LFE level (an Attenuation setting) not a freq setting. My Pioneer LX59 can do it. My old Anthem MRX500 could do it. See the screenshot from the Pioneer manual. Many receivers I’ve had before could do it. You could then adjust the LFE level independently of subwoofer level. I would like to reduce it. I prefer it at -2 or -3 dB in my room rather than 0. Then for example if all your speakers were set to small and the subwoofer was reproducing the bass in those channels under the Crossover freqs you could separately attenuate the LFE level (which is also reproduced by the sub) as desired but not touch the relative vol level of the former. With the Yamaha you can’t do this which I find a bit annoying.
 

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As is the case with the LPF of LFE filter, any LFE level adjustment shouldn't be used and you'd be advised not to remix/bastardise the soundtrack. The LFE level is mixed relative to the other channels and was mixed in a sound studio. Why would you be better equipped to determine what that level should be?

All you are doing by using it is compensating for your own subwoofer's inabilities or compensating for adverse effects your room may be having. I'd suggest it of more importance that you address those issues as opposed to looking for AV receivers that let you ignore those issues by modifying the mix or how the receiver is portraying the LFE channel.

If the issues you have are that annoying then maybe you'll now sort them out correctly?
 
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6. The ratio of the LFE level relative to the level of the bass from main channels should NOT be adjusted in the AV controller. The ratio should be such that LFE signals are 10dB louder than signals of equivalent level in any other channel. A few early DTS music releases contained LFE channels that were 10dB louder than the industry standard. For this reason, some controllers include a DTS music mode that reduces the LFE channel by 10dB. There is no other logical reason to adjust the level of the LFE channel separately from the main channel bass. Doing so irreparably alters the mix intended by the sound engineer.

 
With all due respect, rather than admit you were wrong in initially suggesting that you can’t can adjust the LFE level with some receivers, you kind of go in the attack a bit and say I shouldn’t adjust it? That’s a bit weird IMO. It’s sensible to admit when you are mistaken.

I appreciate what you mean to some extent, but some soundtracks have ridiculously excess bass recorded in the LFE channel. Some are just mixed way over the top to my ears (and mixing is subjective too) If this is the case, I like having a way to adjust it. It’s got nothing to do with the capability of my equipment .
It’s a shame the Yamahas don’t have LFE attenuation capability. I think most other receivers do. Also, why do so many receivers have it? I’ll tell you why, - it’s because it’s v useful!
 
Also, what is it is later night and I didn’t want to disturb the neighbours/kids so much but still have a reasoble volume level? The ability to attenuate the LFE level is useful there too.
 
OP - instead of worrying about the LFE channel in your receiver, why not just turn down the output at the Sub's end?

Is your Sub inaccessible?

I hear what you're saying about excessive bass, but it does vary between content (annoyingly) so it is difficult to find a happy medium, I agree.

I suppose you're looking for a way to just make adjustments at the push of a button rather than have to crawl around on the floor? In which case, I don't blame you! :)
 
Also I do have some old DTS laserdiscs that I play sometimes that have way too much dB in the LFE (as mentioned above). Having an LFE attenuation level adjustment capability is v useful for those discs :)
 
OP - instead of worrying about the LFE channel in your receiver, why not just turn down the output at the Sub's end?

Is your Sub inaccessible?

I hear what you're saying about excessive bass, but it does vary between content (annoyingly) so it is difficult to find a happy medium, I agree.

I suppose you're looking for a way to just make adjustments at the push of a button rather than have to crawl around on the floor? In which case, I don't blame you!
The sub level is adjustable on my Yamaha receiver at the push of a button, but if some of the speakers are set to small and the sub is reproducing the low bass of those channels, then reducing the sub level can make the sound too unbalanced and not baddy enough most of the timee. I also sometimes don’t use the sub and run my frontS full range, the LFE level adjustment is V useful in that situation too, where there is no other possible way to adjust it. (Apart from turning down the main volume!)
 
So I’d like to find out. What receiver brands can you adjust/attenuate the LFE level? Pioneer and Anthem - yes. Yamaha - no. How about recent Denons? If anyone would like to check and chime in I’d appreciate it.
 
In a setup inclusive of a sub, the LFE channel is sent to the sub irrespective of the speaker size configurations anf isn't subject to crossover filtering. THe passive speakers wouldn't play any part in the portrayal of the LFE channel.

The mixed LFE level is relative to the other channels being portrayed. Adjust this independently and the soundtrack is no longer being portrayed as intended.

An LFE level adjustment is not a normal adjustment or one that has any support behind it in terms of standardisation. Hence why you'd not commonly find such an option on most AV amps and or receivers.

If the audio is too loud then turn the master volume down. This will maintain the levels as they were mixed relative to one another at a lower master bolume level. If only adjusting the LFE channel by -2db then you'd only need to set the master volume 2db lower to have the same effect without adulterating the mix or the level associated with the LFE channel relative to the other channels present.

Also note that all the other channels present are full range in nature and if redirecting the lower frequencies away from the passive speakers to be then output via the sub, why wouldn't that audio also disturb your neighbours? Why the need to just adjust the LFE channel?
 
How about recent Denons? If anyone would like to check and chime in I’d appreciate it.

No, neither Denon or Marantz facilitate this. I'd also suspect Sony has not including such an option? They ddn't the last time I owned a Sony AVR.
 
It’s a bit strange that you can’t accept this statement was wrong/incorrect: “No AV receiver fascilitates controlling the level of the LFE channel independantly.”
Just for the record. This is wrong.

It’s also a bit strange that you can’t seem to accept that I want the ability adjust the LFE level relative to the other channel. I don’t want to just turn down the whole volume and I don’t need to describe why again. I’ve already suggested several very valid several situations where it’s highly useful.

I don’t know why you stated this as I’ve already described it and am very aware of it “In a setup inclusive of a sub, the LFE channel is sent to the sub irrespective of the speaker size configurations and isn't subject to crossover filtering. The passive speakers wouldn't play any part in the portrayal of the LFE channel”

The point is if you adjust the WHOLE sub level you are adjusting both the LFE level and the level of the lower bass of other channels if your speakers are set to small. Having the ability to fine tune the LFE decouples these two and it’s v useful.

Anyway, I just want to double confirm about the Denon receivers. I’ll probably read a recent Denon manual tomorrow. Thanks for your time and for trying to help 👍
 
I'm not disputing it, you are simply wanting to falsely claim I am.

I've no objection to you correcting me when I stated that no AV receiver has such an option. I think you'll find it is an option you will not commonly find on most AV receivers though.

It isn't a standardised option because you shouldn't really be adjusting the level. It is intended to be relative to the other channel levels as I've tried to expain..
 
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I'm not disputing it, you are simply wanting to falsely claim I am.

I've no objection to you correcting me when I stated that no AV receiver has such an option. I think you'll find it is an option you will not commonly find on most AV receivers though.

It isn't a standardised option because you shouldn't really be adjusting the level. It is intended to be relative to the other channel levels as I've tried to expain already.
No, what I am doing is making It crystal clear to people that you can adjust the LFE independently on some receivers as you were not volunteering that you were initially wrong and made an incorrect statement like you were dead certain and knew what you were taking about, not once but twiIce. I don’t want anyone to be mislead. It’s incorrect. - you can adjust the LFE level independently on some brands of receivers.

It used to be a widespread feature of receivers. I’ll try to find out what current brands can do it or not and post.

The reasons I’ve said for wanting to adjust it independently are valid. It’s a useful feature. Just to recap, I personally often like to adjust it by -2 To -3 dB. I find it takes the edge off movie soundtracks where the bass is mixed a touch too loud (which can happen. Some mixers overdo things). It’s also invaluable for the DTS laserdics where the LFE is mixed in way too loud. You can’t really dispute that one can you?
 
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and as for this one which I forgot to answer: “Also note that all the other channels present are full range in nature and if redirecting the lower frequencies away from the passive speakers to be then output via the sub, why wouldn't that audio also disturb your neighbours? Why the need to just adjust the LFE channel?”

that should be obvious. The really big bass which can be disturbing is usually in the LFE track, not usually so much in redirected bass to the sub when other channels are set to small. As I’ve said many times, the ability to adjust the LFE is a very useful feature to have :)
 
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It's adjustable on my Marantz SR7012 (see pic below). The option appears in the Audio - Surround Parameters menu but only when the AVR is fed a signal containing LFE.

From Page 184 of the full Manual:-

Low Frequency Effects

Adjust the low frequency effects level (LFE).

When “Input Mode” is set other than to “7.1CH IN”
-10 dB – 0 dB (Default: 0 dB)

When “Input Mode” is set to “7.1CH IN”
0 dB / +5 dB / +10 dB / +15 dB (Default: +10 dB)

For proper playback of the different sources, we recommend setting to the values below.

Dolby Digital sources: 0 dB
DTS movie sources: 0 dB
DTS music sources: -10 dB
 
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For proper playback of the different sources, we recommend setting to the values below.

0 Dolby Digital sources: 0 dB
0 DTS movie sources: 0 dB

In other words, they are recommending you not use the setting and leave it set to its default.
 
I must also correct myself after suggesting that Denon and or Marantz receivers lack an LFE adjustment option. Both Denon and Marantz do in fact include such a setting. Both allow the channel to be decreased by up to -10db.
 
In other words, they are recommending you not use the setting and leave it set to its default.

Personally, I'd leave it alone. Don't think I've needed to adjust it since I tried a DTS CD over 15 years ago.

Each to their own though. :)
 
I think the general consensus of opinion is to leave it alone?
 
Denon (and Maratz by default) have the ability to adjust the bass level from the 'Options' button on the remote. They also have a Low Frequency Containment available.


Audyssey LFC™ (Low Frequency Containment)link
Audyssey LFC™ solves the problem of low frequency sounds disturbing people in neighboring rooms or apartments. Audyssey LFC™ dynamically monitors the audio content and removes the low frequencies that pass through walls, floors and ceilings. It then applies psychoacoustic processing to restore the perception of low bass for listeners in the room. The result is great sound that no longer disturbs the neighbors.
 
I think the general consensus of opinion is to leave it alone?
What, from the basis of one other person’s comments, from your own opinion, or from info you have read but not tried yourself properly? It seems like you’ve just dismissed ever adjusting.

I suggest people try to adjust it it’s available and see what you think . Might find it useful. I also have DTS music discs and the bass is also mixed to a very high level and ridiculous on some DTS movie laserdiscs, - as many were direct cinema mixes and need adjusting. You are really stuck with the Yamaha with no way to attenuate the LFE level. I might have to move to a Denon or Marantz
 
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Denon (and Maratz by default) have the ability to adjust the bass level from the 'Options' button on the remote. They also have a Low Frequency Containment available.


Audyssey LFC™ (Low Frequency Containment)link
Audyssey LFC™ solves the problem of low frequency sounds disturbing people in neighboring rooms or apartments. Audyssey LFC™ dynamically monitors the audio content and removes the low frequencies that pass through walls, floors and ceilings. It then applies psychoacoustic processing to restore the perception of low bass for listeners in the room. The result is great sound that no longer disturbs the neighbors.
Thanks but I tried the LFC setting on a previous Denon and didn’t like the results. I prefer adjusting the LFE level.
 

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