Question Advice please - new speakers or new receiver (or both) - dialogue issues

I'm looking for some advice before I go ahead and upgrade my system. Currently running on a 3.1 set up, Denon AVR-X520BT receiver, Yamaha YST-FSW050 sub and a centre/2 front speakers from an old HTIB I used to have years ago (Sony DAV S800).

Works absolutely fine for normal TV and some netflix shows in Stereo, but I have 2 problems:
  1. Audio is too tinny when the source is surround.
    Despite my settings being (I think) about right (crossover 110, higher than the 80 most people recommend because I figure the speakers, being low end, don't go down low? LPF for LFE 120, read speakers turned OFF), everything sounds tinny. Because of this, I tend to watch things in Stereo because it "sounds right" when downmixed, however I thought that the receiver would compensate for the fact I don't have rear speakers?

  2. Bluray audio is too dynamic.
    I mean really far too dynamic. I tend to have the volume at an average -32dB, sometimes less depending on source, but the explosions are ear shattering and the vocals are very quiet. I admit I maybe play it quieter because I don't want to annoy the neighbours, as I am quite sensitive to noise myself and have in the past asked them to turn theirs down so don't want to be a hypocrite! Seriously, right now I'm plugging my laptop into the receiver and running Viper4Windows "smart volume" as a solution - not ideal as I just want to be able to plug and play, and this doesn't fix streaming through a chromecast for Netflix etc... (even some Netflix films are mixed this way lately!).
Apologies for such a long post, but I wanted to give some real context to my problem. So - I've found receivers which have 'Audyssey Dynamic Volume' which looks right on the money for what I need to fix the dynamic audio issue. Hopefully someone who has this can let me know how they find it? But I'm also conscious that the speakers I have likely quite low end. But I'm happy with how they sound when not watching dynamic audio - so do I buy a new receiver in the hopes this is going to alleviate issue no. 2 and continue to watch in stereo, or upgrade my speakers?

PS. Don't want to spend an inordinate amount of money fixing this.

Thanks!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'm looking for some advice before I go ahead and upgrade my system. Currently running on a 3.1 set up, Denon AVR-X520BT receiver, Yamaha YST-FSW050 sub and a centre/2 front speakers from an old HTIB I used to have years ago (Sony DAV S800).

Works absolutely fine for normal TV and some netflix shows in Stereo, but I have 2 problems:
  1. Audio is too tinny when the source is surround.
    Despite my settings being (I think) about right (crossover 110, higher than the 80 most people recommend because I figure the speakers, being low end, don't go down low? LPF for LFE 120, read speakers turned OFF), everything sounds tinny. Because of this, I tend to watch things in Stereo because it "sounds right" when downmixed, however I thought that the receiver would compensate for the fact I don't have rear speakers?

  2. Bluray audio is too dynamic.
    I mean really far too dynamic. I tend to have the volume at an average -32dB, sometimes less depending on source, but the explosions are ear shattering and the vocals are very quiet. I admit I maybe play it quieter because I don't want to annoy the neighbours, as I am quite sensitive to noise myself and have in the past asked them to turn theirs down so don't want to be a hypocrite! Seriously, right now I'm plugging my laptop into the receiver and running Viper4Windows "smart volume" as a solution - not ideal as I just want to be able to plug and play, and this doesn't fix streaming through a chromecast for Netflix etc... (even some Netflix films are mixed this way lately!).
Apologies for such a long post, but I wanted to give some real context to my problem. So - I've found receivers which have 'Audyssey Dynamic Volume' which looks right on the money for what I need to fix the dynamic audio issue. Hopefully someone who has this can let me know how they find it? But I'm also conscious that the speakers I have likely quite low end. But I'm happy with how they sound when not watching dynamic audio - so do I buy a new receiver in the hopes this is going to alleviate issue no. 2 and continue to watch in stereo, or upgrade my speakers?

PS. Don't want to spend an inordinate amount of money fixing this.

Thanks!
I think the 110hz crossover figures are still too low for those cheap speakers (2" drivers). Run the mic setup again and see what crossovers are being set.

Your receiver has "night mode" which is similar to Audussey Dynamic Volume. You have three options low, medium and high just like with DV. So play some bluray movie and test it out with each settings. It should help. Report back! :)

You can find it at Denon menu under Playback -> Convenience functions -> Night Mode

Seriously those speakers are poor, cheapest junk from lifestyle package. If the night mode works great for you, consider buying pair of good speakers!
 
I think the 110hz crossover figures are still too low for those cheap speakers (2" drivers). Run the mic setup again and see what crossovers are being set.

Your receiver has "night mode" which is similar to Audussey Dynamic Volume. You have three options low, medium and high just like with DV. So play some bluray movie and test it out with each settings. It should help. Report back! :)

You can find it at Denon menu under Playback -> Convenience functions -> Night Mode

Seriously those speakers are poor, cheapest junk from lifestyle package. If the night mode works great for you, consider buying pair of good speakers!
Thanks! Yeah the speakers really are bad but not as noticeable when using stereo as more seems to get driven to the bass? I already have night mode enabled unfortunately and there's no noticeable difference at all. I understand that this is the lowest end Denon available which is why I was considering upgrading to the one with Audyssey.

Maybe I need to upgrade all of it to be honest. Could the speakers also be having an impact on the dynamics being all over the place, or is it purely that this is how films are mixed and only some software like Audyssey will fix?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks! Yeah the speakers really are bad but not as noticeable when using stereo as more seems to get driven to the bass? I already have night mode enabled unfortunately and there's no noticeable difference at all. I understand that this is the lowest end Denon available which is why I was considering upgrading to the one with Audyssey.

Maybe I need to upgrade all of it to be honest. Could the speakers also be having an impact on the dynamics being all over the place, or is it purely that this is how films are mixed and only some software like Audyssey will fix?

Run the auto setup again with the mic placed on seated ear height, room silent and mic higher than couches backseat / 0,5meters away from rear wall!

Yeah of course if you haven´t heard anything better then you might think they are good, but when you hear some decent hifi speakers it will change.

I have no idea is the Dynamic Volume lot more effective than what you got now.

There is also this feature which you should try if haven´t yet?
Settings -> Audio - > Surr. Parameter -> Dynamic Comp.


Dynamic Comp.
Compress dynamic range (difference between loud and soft sounds).
Auto:Automatic dynamic range compression on/off control according to source.
Low / Medium / High:These set the compression level.
Off:Dynamic range compression is always off.
 
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Run the auto setup again with the mic placed on seated ear height, room silent and mic higher than couches backseat / 0,5meters away from rear wall!

Yeah of course if you haven´t heard anything better then you might think they are good, but when you hear some decent hifi speakers it will change.

I have no idea is the Dynamic Volume lot more effective than what you got now.

There is also this feature which you should try if haven´t yet?
Settings -> Audio - > Surr. Parameter -> Dynamic Comp.


Dynamic Comp.
Compress dynamic range (difference between loud and soft sounds).
Auto:Automatic dynamic range compression on/off control according to source.
Low / Medium / High:These set the compression level.
Off:Dynamic range compression is always off.
I have this enabled too haha. The problem is either the receiver's poor night mode, the speakers, or a combination of both. I wish I knew which but I guess at this point I may as well upgrade the whole thing?
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Room/Layout - pics or a sketch would be handy and do you have much in the way of 'soft furnishings' in the room?

AVR - ought to be fine unless it has a fault.

Loudspeakers - potentially in combination with poor layout/room acoustics is where you need to look to sort out your problems, I would start with a decent second hand LR pair.

Keep it simple - don't overthink the problem and or believe that 'room correction' will resolve the issue, your loudspeakers are poor and not a good match with the AVR.

You shouldn't have to spend too much on a S/H speaker pair to arrive at a decent sound in your room.

Joe
 
Room/Layout - pics or a sketch would be handy and do you have much in the way of 'soft furnishings' in the room?

AVR - ought to be fine unless it has a fault.

Loudspeakers - potentially in combination with poor layout/room acoustics is where you need to look to sort out your problems, I would start with a decent second hand LR pair.

Keep it simple - don't overthink the problem and or believe that 'room correction' will resolve the issue, your loudspeakers are poor and not a good match with the AVR.

You shouldn't have to spend too much on a S/H speaker pair to arrive at a decent sound in your room.

Joe
Thank you - I've done a rough plan of the room below, ignore the dimensions, I've no idea how accurate they are. That's the TV stand in the corner to the right of the fireplace, sub sits just next to it, between that and the bookshelf, bookshelf speakers either side of TV (on the TV stand) and centre on the shelf below the TV. Note this is the only layout which we can have in this living room where all viewers can see the TV.

Can you give me any advice on what I'm looking for for good, relatively low priced speakers? I may need front speakers on stands as the TV stand isn't big enough for anything more than the very slim speakers we currently have.

Problem 2 regarding the dynamics is our main issue.

1589025882062.png

I sit on the end of the 2 seater, closest to door. My partner sits end of the large sofa, again closest the door.
 
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Liammonty123

Well-known Member
Yeah, those HTIB speakers are very poor, likely not good to 200hz never mind 100. For a cheap set of LCR I'd look at the QAcoustics 3000 series, really good value for money!
 

password1

Well-known Member
Assuming the receiver is not faulty it can only be the settings or the speakers or a combination of both.

The speakers are rated 120-10,0000hz (at unknown db, it could be at -9db) so setting the crossover at 110 hz is too low.

With small cheap drivers they're likely to have steep roll off. I wouldn't expect much below 180-200hz.

The figures are probably a bit optimistic as they quote the power rating at 10% THD!!

IMG_20200525_174817.jpg
 

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