Question Anything out there to compete with Arcam SR250

exponential

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Hi all.

I'm getting that itchy, wallet busting infection again where I have an incredible urge to upgrade my system and I need some guidance from you guys.
It's like the Coronavirus but the audio version which isn't reported on the news.

The Arcam SR250 is a strange beast and I have a love/hate relationship with it. It's both fantastic and crap at the same time....craptastic is the technical term.

The problem I have is that I'm purely 2 channel plus subs (2.2) and there is only a small handful of units out there that do what the Arcam does and that is to allow the use of HDMI whilst also decoding and downmixing.

I'm using a Cyrus Stereo 200 power amp at the moment so that huge SR250 sat in my TV cabinet is basically just a HDMI switcher and decoder/downmixer. It's a huge waste of space in my cabinet and, not to mention the heat the HDMI board puts out!

I've got my eye on the Anthem STR Pre-amp which will not only give me a much cleaner frequency response (according to audioholics measurements anyway) but will provide me with ARC room correction. It will correct up to 2.2.

The problem is finding something to both switch my hdmi sources whilst simultaneously decoding, downmixing and passing through to to STR to do it's magic. Is there any device out there that can replace the SR250?

I was thinking of an HD Fury device but I know nothing about these units?

Can anyone recommend either an all in one unit or separates that will allow me to achieve my goal?

Please fire away with any questions you may have guys...

By the way, I've tried the Lyngdorf TDAI 2701 and Anthem MRX 520 before. I couldn't get the Lyngdorf to work properly and there was an HDMI conflict with my LG tv with the Anthem. :(
 
Not sure if it will do everything you want but take a look at this:
Marantz NR1200
 
Not sure if it will do everything you want but take a look at this:
Marantz NR1200

I looked at that mate. It's definitely something of interest but how would I integrate it with both a power amp and the STR? Which one would get the pre outs and how do I get the 2.1 to the STR?

Am I missing something really obvious here?
 
I assumed that you wanted to replace the SR250, and maybe the Cyrus as well (but you could still use that as the NR1200 has L&R Preout).
 
I assumed that you wanted to replace the SR250, and maybe the Cyrus as well (but you could still use that as the NR1200 has L&R Preout).

Yeah, want to replace the SR250 and I'm selling the Cyrus in the classified at the mo.

How do I get the 2.1 signal to the STR?
 
This would be an alternative to the STR. I thought you wanted a simpler, all in one solution.........
 
This would be an alternative to the STR. I thought you wanted a simpler, all in one solution.........

No disrespect to any Marantz owners out there but I feel the NR1200 is quite a step down to the Arcam and, the NR1200 doesn't have any usable room correction either. I considered the NR1200 just as an HDMI switcher and decoder but in a smaller form factor from the Arcam.

The only Marantz that has the good Room EQ plus subwoofer EQ is the likes of the SR6012 and upwards but those are just as big as the SR250 and they contain 7+ amps that will be of no use.

The up and coming NAD M33 looks interesting as a one box solution but it has no HDMI inputs so I'll be back to square one.
 
Ok. So after looking at the rear of the STR, it seems it has both analogue L, R, SUB 1 & SUB 2 inputs AND outputs. In that case, I could route a stereo pair of RCA's from the NR1200's analogue ours to the analogue in of the STR and same for the subs.
Then it's sub out of the STR to the subs and L & R out to a power amp. Is that correct?
 
The only devices I can think of with both decent quality and full-function stereo A/V are the Arcam SR250 you have and the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 (rather than the TDAI-2700 you mention).

The Anthem STR does not have HDMI, so you would still have to solve the issue of stripping out the audio from the HDMI stream and handling lip sync issues. This is most readily done by having a TV with the necessary functionality built in, but your LG55EG910V doesn't (my TV does). The Oppo UDP-205 that I have can also be used to do this, and your UDP-203 seems to have the functionality you'd need (OPPO Digital - Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc Players), albeit at a lower quality.

Given your other equpment, I'd therefore suggest the Arcam SR250 or Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 as your main options. Should you buy the Lyngdorf, your dealer will likely offer an in-home setup option (over here you get the service: it costs, but it's worth it). This will delegate the issues you had getting the TDAI-2700 to work properly to the dealer.
 
By the way, I've tried the Lyngdorf TDAI 2701 and Anthem MRX 520 before. I couldn't get the Lyngdorf to work properly and there was an HDMI conflict with my LG tv with the Anthem. :(

I’m interested in what way you couldn’t get the Lyngdorf to work properly. It seems the ideal option to replace your SR250 and the Cyrus.
 
Curveball, but if you can give it PCM signals, the Classe Sigma 2200i was what I bought over the Arcam 250 when I was looking. I'm only switching between a PC and PS4 but it works well for me. HDMI inputs and only one sub output though. 9 band PEQ per channel but nothing auto.

Sounds awesome too.
 
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Am I correct in thinking that the 3400 (and most other non-AVR with HDMI input, other than the SR250) doesn't do DD/DTS decoding, so you'd have to do downmixing in the source player, which means that you would lose the LFE channel?

From https://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/18_Metadata.Guide.pdf "In all downmixes, the LFE channel is not included."
I think that’s right, but you don’t lose anything - you get all the content downmixed to 2 full range channels.
 
I’m interested in what way you couldn’t get the Lyngdorf to work properly. It seems the ideal option to replace your SR250 and the Cyrus.

I got a demo unit sent to me but I struggled to set it up correctly as the menu system wasn't intuitive at all.
The person who sent the unit was busy on the other side of the country doing install work for a client so couldn't get to me to assist.
Shame really but you can't have it all your own way can you! :facepalm:
I loved the styling and form factor though and, compared to the Arcam, was a beautiful looking thing.
 
The only devices I can think of with both decent quality and full-function stereo A/V are the Arcam SR250 you have and the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 (rather than the TDAI-2700 you mention).

The Anthem STR does not have HDMI, so you would still have to solve the issue of stripping out the audio from the HDMI stream and handling lip sync issues. This is most readily done by having a TV with the necessary functionality built in, but your LG55EG910V doesn't (my TV does). The Oppo UDP-205 that I have can also be used to do this, and your UDP-203 seems to have the functionality you'd need (OPPO Digital - Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc Players), albeit at a lower quality.

Given your other equpment, I'd therefore suggest the Arcam SR250 or Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 as your main options. Should you buy the Lyngdorf, your dealer will likely offer an in-home setup option (over here you get the service: it costs, but it's worth it). This will delegate the issues you had getting the TDAI-2700 to work properly to the dealer.

The Lyngdorf 3400 is bloody expensive though! I can't afford to just lay out the best part of £5k on a "chance" that it might work!

The problem ALWAYS comes back to this: how to strip the audio data to 2.1 channels whilst preserving the original quality!

Because the Cyrus has both XLR and RCA which is switchable from the front, I've been using my RME ADI2 as a preamp which only has the Innuos server as a source. I hold the input and select XLR, that enables the RME. The quality of the sound is absolutely fantastic.

As an experiment, I decided to ditch the XLR and connect the RME direct to an unused RCA input on the Arcam and set it to "Stereo Direct". Apparently, this disables all processing and is supposed to be the purest form of audio. This is definitely not the case.
Music in this way is s big disappointment. The sound is like there is a veil over the music, like vocals are recessed to behind the speakers and it loses all of its sparkle and vibrancy.
The Cyrus is still in use as a power amp but via RCA instead but the difference between using the RME as a preamp to using it as a source via Arcam analogue in is like night and day in audio terms.
Regardless of what the Arcam manual states about "Stereo Direct" being the best way to preserve a signal's purity, it must still be doing something as the change in sound is highly noticable.

This is so frustrating to me as I have a great hdmi and audio decoder in the form of the SR250 but it just doesn't do it for me for music. :blush:
 
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I think that’s right, but you don’t lose anything - you get all the content downmixed to 2 full range channels.
Could you elaborate on this please? Are you saying the .1 is prepackaged within the 2 channel signal?
 
Curveball, but if you can give it PCM signals, the Classe Sigma 2200i was what I bought over the Arcam 250 when I was looking. I'm only switching between a PC and PS4 but it works well for me. HDMI inputs and only one sub output though. 9 band PEQ per channel but nothing auto.

Sounds awesome too.

Looked at the Sigma a while back and nearly went for it but then heard Classè either went bump or were struggling so I back out.
I believe they've been gobbled up by "Sound United" now?
 
It depends. FFMPEG which plex uses discards the .1 when it’s output is set to two channel. Other sources (PS4, jriver) retain it when downsampling to two channel, as they should.

So it depends on what’s doing the processing, but a Dolby compliant processor should merge the .1 with the L/R channels. I’ll post a link from someone on AVS that explained that to me.
 
Looked at the Sigma a while back and nearly went for it but then heard Classè either went bump or were struggling so I back out.
I believe they've been gobbled up by "Sound United" now?

They’ve been owned by sound United for a while now. They’re back manufacturing though and their new delta pre might even be what you’re looking for?

I’m running a sigma downstairs and their delta II amps and processor upstairs. Sounds great.
 
They’ve been owned by sound United for a while now. They’re back manufacturing though and their new delta pre might even be what you’re looking for?

I’m running a sigma downstairs and their delta II amps and processor upstairs. Sounds great.
Hmmmm.

Thanks Conrad! I'll look into that later when I'm at work. :smashin:

Must admit, I was quite taken by the Classè stuff a while ago. Looked like a great bit of kit...
 
FYI, there’s a guy on avs that had some issues with his gear which Classé took back in and serviced for him. I also spoke to them when I first got my delta as I wanted to get it serviced and there was a service centre in Belgium. At 53kg I decided against it but servicing and repair options are available.

Sorry if I’m sounding like a Classe salesman!
 
As an experiment, I decided to ditch the XLR and connect the RME direct to an unused RCA input on the Arcam and set it to "Stereo Direct". Apparently, this disables all processing and is supposed to be the purest form of audio. This is definitely not the case.
Music in this way is s big disappointment. The sound is like there is a veil over the music, like vocals are recessed to behind the speakers and it loses all of its sparkle and vibrancy.
The Cyrus is still in use as a power amp but via RCA instead but the difference between using the RME as a preamp to using it as a source via Arcam analogue in is like night and day in audio terms.
Regardless of what the Arcam manual states about "Stereo Direct" being the best way to preserve a signal's purity, it must still be doing something as the change in sound is highly noticable.

This is so frustrating to me as I have a great hdmi and audio decoder in the form of the SR250 but it just doesn't do it for me for music. :blush:
Hello. Very interesting!

Could the audio difference be between the XLR and RCA output of the DAC. What happens if you go from the DAC straight to the power amp via RCA, has the DAC got a volume control?

Maybe a solution would be to use that arrangement for music and a speaker switch back to the Arcam for everything else?
 
I got a demo unit sent to me but I struggled to set it up correctly as the menu system wasn't intuitive at all.

I‘ve always found the structure of the menu logical, but what button you need to press to do what you want at any given point has always seemed unintuitive to me. But I seriously think you need to give it a go with proper dealer support - what you’re describing that you need is the TDAI-2170, in practically every way.

a Dolby compliant processor should merge the .1 with the L/R channels. I’ll post a link from someone on AVS that explained that to me.
What he said.
 
The Lyngdorf 3400 is bloody expensive though! I can't afford to just lay out the best part of £5k on a "chance" that it might work!
Which is why I suggested you get the dealer to do the setup. If it doesn't work, you don't pay anything: it's his job to make it work - or forget the deal. And he knows it!
 

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