Question Anything out there to compete with Arcam SR250

It depends. FFMPEG which plex uses discards the .1 when it’s output is set to two channel. Other sources (PS4, jriver) retain it when downsampling to two channel, as they should.

So it depends on what’s doing the processing, but a Dolby compliant processor should merge the .1 with the L/R channels. I’ll post a link from someone on AVS that explained that to me.
I'd be really interested to see that, as the Dolby documentation I have read always says that downmixed stereo always discards the LFE channel. It would open up much more choice for me if this wasn't the case.
 
I'd be really interested to see that, as the Dolby documentation I have read always says that downmixed stereo always discards the LFE channel. It would open up much more choice for me if this wasn't the case.
But even if that’s the case then it shouldn’t matter. As I understand it, there’s no low frequency content in the .1 that isn’t also in the 5 (and the rest where applicable) as they are full range channels.
 
I think I'll give the 3400 a miss after reading this review and thorough test:


Not paying £5k for that sort of performance!!

I always check ASR to see how a product measures before I even consider a purchase.

I bought my RME ADI2 DAC based on its stunning performance from this very website.

Read into that what you will.
 
Another option would be a NAD C658 or M12 with the HDM-2 module (https://nadelectronics.com/product/mdc-hdm-2-hdmi/) or the NAD C510. All three options give you a stereo preamplifier with HDMI support, the first two have additional useful functionality.

An issue with the .1 track is that it's encoded at -10dB, boosted at playback. If mixed into the stereo track this means it must be boosted prior to mixing, which can lead to clipping. As a result, it is often discarded, but that is by no means universally the case. Dolby's "In all downmixes, the LFE channel is not included": https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/a-guide-to-dolby-metadata.pdf. Neat explanation from 2007 (and still valid) with pretty pictures as to why it ought to be omitted: The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound - HomeTheaterHifi.com.

You may like to investigate whether your Oppo UDP-203 couldn't be used to assist with your processing requirements; it has the functionality.
 
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But even if that’s the case then it shouldn’t matter. As I understand it, there’s no low frequency content in the .1 that isn’t also in the 5 (and the rest where applicable) as they are full range channels.
That is definitely not the case. The person mixing can decide where they put low frequency effects. There are guidelines by Dolby and others about how to mix, but the encoder doesn't just duplicate the LFE channel into the others.
 
I think I'll give the 3400 a miss after reading this review and thorough test:


Not paying £5k for that sort of performance!!

I always check ASR to see how a product measures before I even consider a purchase.

I bought my RME ADI2 DAC based on its stunning performance from this very website.

Read into that what you will.
If you go through he Lyngdorf thread that review has been reasonably de-bunked by those that know the technology and understand the measuring methods
 
Am I correct in thinking that the 3400 (and most other non-AVR with HDMI input, other than the SR250) doesn't do DD/DTS decoding, so you'd have to do downmixing in the source player, which means that you would lose the LFE channel?

From https://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/18_Metadata.Guide.pdf "In all downmixes, the LFE channel is not included."

Was thinking this at work today. It ticks every box except the deciding side. I would have to buy their MP-50/60 and you're talking silly money plus lots of amps I won't use!
 
If you go through he Lyngdorf thread that review has been reasonably de-bunked by those that know the technology and understand the measuring methods

Fair comment. I guess you can't tar every unit with the one unit that was measured....
 
The only devices I can think of with both decent quality and full-function stereo A/V are the Arcam SR250 you have and the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 (rather than the TDAI-2700 you mention).

The Anthem STR does not have HDMI, so you would still have to solve the issue of stripping out the audio from the HDMI stream and handling lip sync issues. This is most readily done by having a TV with the necessary functionality built in, but your LG55EG910V doesn't (my TV does). The Oppo UDP-205 that I have can also be used to do this, and your UDP-203 seems to have the functionality you'd need (OPPO Digital - Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc Players), albeit at a lower quality.

Given your other equpment, I'd therefore suggest the Arcam SR250 or Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 as your main options. Should you buy the Lyngdorf, your dealer will likely offer an in-home setup option (over here you get the service: it costs, but it's worth it). This will delegate the issues you had getting the TDAI-2700 to work properly to the dealer.

So if j was to buy the latest OLED say, a 55C9 or something, that would decode the data and send it via ARC?
 
So if j was to buy the latest OLED say, a 55C9 or something, that would decode the data and send it via ARC?
Yes the HDMI is ARC enabled.
 
Hello. Very interesting!

Could the audio difference be between the XLR and RCA output of the DAC. What happens if you go from the DAC straight to the power amp via RCA, has the DAC got a volume control?

Maybe a solution would be to use that arrangement for music and a speaker switch back to the Arcam for everything else?

Hi Rambles.

The output of the DAC is identical on both XLR and RCA. The only difference being the increase in output by the use of XLR by about +6db if I remember rightly.
I haven't actually tried using RCA straight to the power amp.....that's one to try when I get a minute.
Yeah, the DAC can act as a preamp if required and does have volume control. You can set it to fixed or variable. It's a cracking little unit and using it has made me realise what I'm missing when using the Arcam. It's on a different level altogether.

This is the issue. I now know how good music can sound using my DAC and it's highlighted the poor quality of the Arcam (in my subjective opinion of course).

Can you recommend a speaker switch at all?
 
Can you recommend a speaker switch at all?
There is only really one on the market that is rated as being good enough for 'audiophiles'. I tried it myself actually, and it is fine, except you need a lot more banana plugs than you initially think!

It's this one:


Could be a good solution for you, the Arcam stays for movies, then the DAC and power amp stay for music.

It's a bit concerning that you don't rate the Arcam in stereo direct for music, as that's how I use mine and it sounds awesome to me. I guess your DAC must sound super awesome! Or... louder?
 
There is only really one on the market that is rated as being good enough for 'audiophiles'. I tried it myself actually, and it is fine, except you need a lot more banana plugs than you initially think!

It's this one:


Could be a good solution for you, the Arcam stays for movies, then the DAC and power amp stay for music.

It's a bit concerning that you don't rate the Arcam in stereo direct for music, as that's how I use mine and it sounds awesome to me. I guess your DAC must sound super awesome! Or... louder?

O just don't know if I want all the trouble of extra switches and the like..... :facepalm:

I'll admit, my listening comparisons weren't done under strict, level matched conditions but, using my ears as a guide, felt something was lacking.
The detail I was used to just was not there at all.......whatever that means.
 
Yes, it is a manual switch as well, very old school!

Louder always sounds better. It would be really interesting, if you have the time and can be bothered, to try the DAC through the Arcam with the Arcam in stereo direct, and also straight into the power amp, and with the volume levels calibrated to be identical, and see how that compares. A blind test would be even better, but probably a bit too complex to set-up?
 
Well, it should be fairly easy really. I'll use Roon to find pink noise and play it through the DAC into the Arcam first, then straight into the power amp using that same tone to get my levels right. I hope that's the case anyway. I'll report back on this probably tomorrow.

There IS one item I'm intrigued by and that's the new NAD M33 due out next month. It has the new Purifi "Eigentackt" amps and a multitude of useful functions. It really would be a true "one box" solution IF the HDMI modules you can buy are capable of accepting the necessary Dolby codecs and it has the ability to decode it?

It's a lovely looking thing too! :)
 
It does look nice! £4k seems like a large amount of money, but if you add up the costs of the Arcam, DAC and power amp it is probably a similar level.

And, a 'one box solution' ;):D
 
And, a 'one box solution' ;):D

Hehehe. You know me far too well! :cool: :laugh:

You're right though, it has excellent class D amps in the "Purifi" that are proven to be incredibly powerful with class leading SNR, THD+N and efficiency to boot!
I probably won't sell the Arcam as prices have dropped massively and I'll only get £500 max for it. It'll be handy to keep as a back-up/comparison unit for future purchases. :)
 
Hi all.


I've just been looking over the specs of the Anthem STR Pre-amp and it has subwoofer "in" x 2 aswel as subwoofer "out" x 2 as part of its HT bypass feature.
Does this mean I could use, for example, the 2 subwoofer outs of the Marantz NR1200 straight to the "in's" of the STR then out again to the subs therefore preserving the .1 channel?

I don't quite understand it if I'm honest. :thumbsdow
 
I've just been looking over the specs of the Anthem STR Pre-amp and it has subwoofer "in" x 2 aswel as subwoofer "out" x 2 as part of its HT bypass feature.
Does this mean I could use, for example, the 2 subwoofer outs of the Marantz NR1200 straight to the "in's" of the STR then out again to the subs therefore preserving the .1 channel?
Yes, or if you have only 1 physcial subwoofer, just use one of the channels and configure as mono. The neat thing about the STR Preamp is that you can use its bass management and room correction on stereo inputs, as well as using pass-through mode for the AVR's F/R/Sub. This allows you to use a (small) speaker + sub setup for all sources. Take a look at page 13 of https://www.anthemav.com/downloads/str-preamplifier-manual-online-en.pdf.
 
Yes, or if you have only 1 physcial subwoofer, just use one of the channels and configure as mono. The neat thing about the STR Preamp is that you can use its bass management and room correction on stereo inputs, as well as using pass-through mode for the AVR's F/R/Sub. This allows you to use a (small) speaker + sub setup for all sources. Take a look at page 13 of https://www.anthemav.com/downloads/str-preamplifier-manual-online-en.pdf.

Hi Mark.

That's exactly what I've been looking for to be honest! Thanks for the valued input. The STR Pre looked to tick most, if not all boxes for me but it was the subwoofer issue I couldn't get my head around.

So, in my case, with using a separate power amp running from the pre-outs of my Arcam, what do I do with that cable now? Essentially I will have two pre amps so which one gets the power amp and how do I connect the other?

So, this is how it will work in my head....

Arcam: sub out to sub in (HT Bypass) on STR
Arcam: pre out to HT Bypass L & R on STR
STR: Sub out to subs
STR: Analogue XLR out L & R to poweramp

Please tell me I have it right??
 
Arcam: sub out to sub in (HT Bypass) on STR
Arcam: pre out to HT Bypass L & R on STR
STR: Sub out to subs
STR: Analogue XLR out L & R to poweramp

Please tell me I have it right??
Yes, "you have it right".

The preouts from the SR250 route to your stereo power amplifier and subwoofers through the Anthem STR-Pre, which is in "HT bypass" mode (meaning the Anthem basically acts as a switch).
 
Yes, "you have it right".

The preouts from the SR250 route to your stereo power amplifier and subwoofers through the Anthem STR-Pre, which is in "HT bypass" mode (meaning the Anthem basically acts as a switch).

Brilliant! That's exactly the answer I was looking for. I can't thank you enough for your help! :)

I can start selling things off to pay for it all now! :D

You're very knowledgeable mate. :thumbsup:
 

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