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Arcam AVR390 / AVR550 / AVR850 including Dirac Live®

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
While I follow the thread and kept myself reasonably up to date with it, I havn’t kept up with this recent announcement.

Is it basically that the customer service is crap, firmware updates are particularly slow in showing themselves, basic bass management is free, if you want another level of bass management this will cost you extra, then if you want another level it will cost you even more ? And this is on top of paying a premium price for the product in the first place. So you will pay £xxxx for the product but if you want to take full advantage of that product, you will have to pay more ?

And it’s not April fools ?
 
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Steve356

Distinguished Member
While I follow the thread and kept myself reasonably up to date with it, I havn’t kept up with this recent announcement.

Is it basically that the customer service is crap, firmware updates are particularly slow in showing themselves, basic bass management is free, if you want another level of bass management this will cost you extra, then if you want another level it will cost you even more ? And this is on top of paying a premium price for the product in the first place. So you will pay £xxxx for the product but if you want to take full advantage of that product, you will have to pay more ?

And it’s not April fools ?
Yep. Summarised nicely Kev.

Only thing I would add is Arcam's typical response to bug reports is that "you must be doing something wrong" or "it's the first we have heard of it", when you know that it's not true as other Forum members have reported the same bugs.
 

AdamAttewell

Well-known Member
To be fair to Arcam they never have said the the bass management module was for the FMJ line & the module is a Dirac product they they are pushing.
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
To be fair to Arcam they never have said the the bass management module was for the FMJ line & the module is a Dirac product they they are pushing.
That's true. However, they (Arcam) probably expect customers to "upgrade" to the new line of products, when the current line is still buggy. The latest Dirac release also seems to have a bug in it.
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
I guess they may well do ok with the current outgoing models and their price reductions. Especially for those wishing to give Dirac a trial, even with the Arcam limitations.

As for the newer models, those pricing extras for a basic function is just bonkers to me. No doubt it will still appeal to a die hard Arcam follower regardless of cost or possibly even performance.
 

AdamAttewell

Well-known Member
I guess they may well do ok with the current outgoing models and their price reductions. Especially for those wishing to give Dirac a trial, even with the Arcam limitations.

As for the newer models, those pricing extras for a basic function is just bonkers to me. No doubt it will still appeal to a die hard Arcam follower regardless of cost or possibly even performance.
I agree I have enquired about the HDA line quite a bit with my dealer who is a good friend & I can upgrade to the AVR30 by part exchanging my AVR850 for next to nothing but I want to see what bugs we have on our hands first.

I do line the extra channel of processing & the the base management module, also we have individual crossovers for speaker pairs instead of a global crossover for the base & height layers.

The crossovers will also be handled by Dirac & not the AVR which I read is a requirement of the bass management module.

Also Auro 3D is coming to the AVR20/30 & AV40 which I have great thing about the Auromatic up mixer.
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
Can you imagine the sales pitch in the dealer showroom.

The chats have taken place, the demo session has been done. And then you drop in that you will eventually have two subs and the sales person grimaces and says ‘mmm can we have another chat’ !
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
I agree I have enquired about the HDA line quite a bit with my dealer who is a good friend & I can upgrade to the AVR30 by part exchanging my AVR850 for next to nothing but I want to see what bugs we have on our hands first.

I do line the extra channel of processing & the the base management module, also we have individual crossovers for speaker pairs instead of a global crossover for the base & height layers.

The crossovers will also be handled by Dirac & not the AVR which I read is a requirement of the bass management module.

Also Auro 3D is coming to the AVR20/30 & AV40 which I have great thing about the Auromatic up mixer.
Just as an observation, some manufacturers have featured a lot of that stuff for some years now. So much so that it’s not an ‘announcement feature’ but more of something that’s pretty much expected now.
 

AdamAttewell

Well-known Member
Just as an observation, some manufacturers have featured a lot of that stuff for some years now. So much so that it’s not an ‘announcement feature’ but more of something that’s pretty much expected now.
For sure I totally agree with you I was just providing some insight to why an Arcam owner might upgrade to the HDA line.
 

fatboy frank

Well-known Member
But nothing sounds as good as an Arcam :rotfl:
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
For sure I totally agree with you I was just providing some insight to why an Arcam owner might upgrade to the HDA line.
Yeah I get you.

I guess Arcam may well keep their avid followers who will upgrade, possibly.

Personally, I think next year will be far more interesting for new products than Arcam charging a premium for basic features over the already premium price.
 

AdamAttewell

Well-known Member
Yeah I get you.

I guess Arcam may well keep their avid followers who will upgrade, possibly.

Personally, I think next year will be far more interesting for new products than Arcam charging a premium over the already premium price.
I agree with you on the price, but then I did not pay full retail for my Arcam purchase in fact come to think of it I have not for the majority of my AV purchases.

When you get into this bracket of "high end audio" the profit margins are very high with the retail prices so if you are not getting even a minimal discount you are paying well to much IMO.
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
I agree with you on the price, but then I did not pay full retail for my Arcam purchase in fact come to think of it I have not for the majority of my AV purchases.

When you get into this bracket of "high end audio" the profit margins are very high with the retail prices so if you are not getting even a minimal discount you are paying well to much IMO.
To be fair, that discount pricing is largely irrelevant as it can be applied to all manufacturers.
I think the main point is hilighting features that are the norm for a lot of other manufacturers and then charging the customer a surcharge if they have extra speakers. That’s something that a lot of their competition don’t do.
 

007L2Kill

Well-known Member
Well I think Dodge summed it up rather nicely about Arcam as I think the free part of the Dirac Bass module should be included in the FMJ range for free as I have been using my Arcam AVR 390 with Dirac and it got my SUBS wrong on the MS needed and the dips on my Right speaker was pathetic if I have to be honest as if I did not know my way around REW then I would be living with this thinking the bass is not very good etc…

I ironed out all the problems using curves in Dirac where needed at the x-over point and it worked a treat. Been listing to it tonight and it’s a very good unit and I like it, but my surrounds do need a X-over at 100Hz but my mains sound best at 80Hz so another compromise but the LFE channel just sounds deader than on my Marantz Pro, so getting my Umik out testing its output I found out that the LPF on LFE is set to what ever the crossover is set which is wrong, so I have it set to 80Hz and its filtering everything out above that. On my Marantz I have a setting I can adjust just for this channel and I set it too 120Hz which is correct.

Going back to my Marantz felt like it was the newer unit which is just crazy and I could not believe the sound as it was just more integrated and smoother, so I decided I returning the Arcam while it’s a great unit, the little things that are missing really spoil the party
 

AdamAttewell

Well-known Member
To be fair, that discount pricing is largely irrelevant as it can be applied to all manufacturers.
I think the main point is hilighting features that are the norm for a lot of other manufacturers and then charging the customer a surcharge if they have extra speakers. That’s something that a lot of their competition don’t do.
I presume you are referring to the Dirac bass management module in regard to the pricing tiered pricing for multiple subwoofers?
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
I presume you are referring to the Dirac bass management module in regard to the pricing tiered pricing for multiple subwoofers?
Not in that post, no. You mentioned pricing of the unit, so my reply was in response to that.
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
Charging the customer an extra premium for additional speakers is an insult in itself.
 

AdamAttewell

Well-known Member
But don't they all do that in a way? You can buy the basic receiver or get the flagship for more channels?

I have probably got the wrong end of the stick.:D
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
I don’t get charged extra for having dual Subs or being able to vary the crossovers for channel pairs, or indeed anything else that Arcam decide to charge extra for.

And just to be clear here, I’m not having a dig, it’s an observation at what Arcam are expecting of their customer against other manufacturers. Arcam are charging extra for what others include.
 

AdamAttewell

Well-known Member
No worries Dodge thanks for sharing your opinion, I always like a good discussion.

I am sure you are well aware that I have been one of the most critical about Arcam over the last few months in this thread & on other forums too so I see exactly where you are coming from & have skin in the game so to speak being an owner.
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
No worries Dodge thanks for sharing your opinion, I always like a good discussion.

I am sure you are well aware that I have been one of the most critical about Arcam over the last few months in this thread & on other forums too so I see exactly where you are coming from & have skin in the game so to speak being an owner.
Yeah for sure. I just find their model becoming more niche than it has been and adoring more ‘already Arcam’ owners as oppose to attracting new customers. Maybe that’s their aim, I don’t know.
 

AdamAttewell

Well-known Member
Yeah for sure. I just find their model becoming more niche than it has been and adoring more ‘already Arcam’ owners as oppose to attracting new customers. Maybe that’s their aim, I don’t know.
I guess that's why I am interested & also I do like what Dirac does in my room & how I can customize the sound.

As far as I am aware my only other choice for an AVR with Dirac is the NAD?

Everything else with Dirac is silly money as far as I am aware, the Monoprice HTP-1 but that's only a processor.
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
I guess that's why I am interested & also I do like what Dirac does in my room & how I can customize the sound.

As far as I am aware my only other choice for an AVR with Dirac is the NAD?

Everything else with Dirac is silly money as far as I am aware, the Monoprice HTP-1 but that's only a processor.
If you like what Dirac does with your room, that’s great, and even better if you like Arcam on the end of it, nowt wrong with that if it does it for you.

The thing for me is the charging extra for extra speakers, that’s just bizarre. And then to say it includes things like being able to adjust crossovers here and there for particular speakers, just bizarre again.

Are they really aware of how this tech has now moved on or just ignorant and expectant that their customer will pay the extra premium. I think next year will see Arcam lose customer base.
 

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