Arcam AVR390 vs AVR550 Vs AVR850 AV860 As a Processor ONLY

I’m interested in using one of the latest Arcam AVRs as a processor only as well. As much as I like Arcam, unfortunately this seems like a classic case of taking something away and charging a higher price for it. It’s better, so people will accept paying more for it, even if there’s less in the box! Where is the £1000 AV processor based on the AVR390 with the power amp section removed? Never going to happen.

Personally, I’m just going to go for the 390 when I get round to it. Any ‘noise’ from the power supply and power amp section is going to be vastly reduced if the power amp section is not drawing any current.
 
What about Dirac Live? Not exactly taking much away, it makes the AVR! It's inclusion is not insubstantial. I'd much rather have a naff menu and fabulous sound than vice versa.

Show me a manufacturer that does have a processor constructed as described (power amps ripped out, etc). The idea of the 860 is that it's super clean and ready for serious amplification, whether you'd notice the difference or not is of course subjective and you could choose to use a 390 instead. I'd point to the latest processors that Steve has reviewed recently, another league I know, but it gives you a sense of the actual value these Arcam AVRs provide. Quite astonishing when you think about it.
 
What about Dirac Live? Not exactly taking much away, it makes the AVR! It's inclusion is not insubstantial. I'd much rather have a naff menu and fabulous sound than vice versa.

Show me a manufacturer that does have a processor constructed as described (power amps ripped out, etc). The idea of the 860 is that it's super clean and ready for serious amplification, whether you'd notice the difference or not is of course subjective and you could choose to use a 390 instead. I'd point to the latest processors that Steve has reviewed recently, another league I know, but it gives you a sense of the actual value these Arcam AVRs provide. Quite astonishing when you think about it.

Yes, Dirac Live is one of the main reasons for going for one of these.

It’s just the cynicism of taking something away ‘to make it better’ and charging more that irks me. Or the fact that the 860 costs quite so much when ostensibly the functions of the processor seem identical to the processor in the 390. Certainly not a trait exclusive to Arcam though.
 
AVR390:
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AV860:
449_large.jpg



I can assure you the design on the inside is much more different than this. Couple that with far fewer unit sales than even the AVR850, the AV860 (or indeed any processor) will inevitably end up with a higher cost.
 
OK, I’ll let it go!

I’ll be going for a 390 in a few months, I have a very awkward shaped room and I think that Dirac could make a real difference.
 
I'll let you into a little secret, and this is me being way over the top. I put a lot of emphasis on Dirac Live to correct an open plan asymmetric room. Now I don't want to get your hopes up because realistically room issues should be resolved first, but I didn't do that and moved straight onto room EQ. And it delivered!

Has skipping over correcting the room issues harmed the overall result? Yes. I still have awkward bass and side wall reflection issues. No room EQ is going to miraculously cure these, but it helps more than I hoped it would, and that's down to timing or impulse correction that you get with ARC and Dirac Live.

I don't seem to be coming up with any real advice here do I?! I guess the summary is you can use Dirac Live to improve the sound in awkward spaces, but don't do what I did and skip some important room preparation first. If that means delaying an AVR purchase to push capital in favour of soft furnishings, maybe a little room alteration here and there, it'll be worth it, although I know you won't thank me for it until you've heard the results. Mmm, actually, you could skip it, find the flaws and correct them, and then hear the improvement for yourself. I'm going to stop now because I'm not helping!
 
No, it’s OK, it’s good to hear your experience and I’m really looking forward to trying out Dirac at some point.

Unfortunately there’s little I can do about the layout and furnishing of my room. It’s an extension to the side of the kitchen, so one side is open to the kitchen, the other has windows/patio doors all along it (although I’d have the curtains drawn if watching a film) and the ceiling is sloping. It was the only place where I had the space and could arrange everything symmetrically. I used to have a Denon x3300 used as processor only and while audyssey did improve the tone, it kind of softened and blunted the sound. I switched to an Arcam AV8 and it’s much better overall, and really great in fact, albeit ultimately compromised by the shape of the room. Hopefully a 390 and Dirac will give me the best I can get.
 
When I bought my PSA sub from Ricky at Kalibrate we were chatting about Arcam receivers and I still have the AVR600. Anyway, I remember him saying he used the AVR390 extensively because it had the same processor, etc as the bigger amps and it the only difference was the power of the amps.
 
Well sort of. There are different designs to the power supplies and the power amps, especially in the AVR850, but yeah they are the only differences.
 
I suppose whether a better built power supply would make any difference to the processor. Obviously potentially could for the analogue pre-amp side of things, stereo ins, etc.
 
The preamp section is most probably identical on the 390/550/850. The only difference is in the power amplification.

Hence connecting an external amp to one of the above should provide the same sound.

In practice I would have dragged my ext amp to the store and hooked them up and tried them out, just to lay my mind on rest after the purchase and not speculate about it.

However , as with many receivers with pre outs the main signal path is not entirely designed with external amplification in mind (ie 860) and with different degrading voltages and else I see it more as a compromised option , a factory built internal signal connectivity should render higher fidelity.
By this I mean that is could be that the 390 on its own is still a better option than a 390 with hook ups

Demo it out .
 
I just purchased the AV860. Haven't had much time to test it yet but what I've heard so far is impressive.

There was a thread somewhere about the differences between the 860 and the AVR850. From what I remember, it isn't just the inclusion of balance outs.
I have the AVR850. Can you tell me about your AVR860 and what power amp you are using please? If a pre + power sounds better then I will look into it.
 
So, does an Arcam 860 used with separate amps (three of the P429's to run 7 channels and 4 Atmos speakers) sound better than my AVR850 + my P429? It's an expensive way of doing things. Thanks.
 
I would have thought improvements would be minimal and room dependent. Power is similar. It would take a demo to figure this one out.
 
I am using my AV860 with 3 P7, and it certainly does sound better than the AV850, but it’s a very expensive way to go.
 
Yeah, stands to reason that it's better but by how much? Surely after the technical excellence and heft of an AVR850, there's only another 15-20% to go until you hit AV nirvana, unless it's a really large dedicated room to fill with sound. Would that be a fair assessment?

And then comes the ultimate question: has the room got what it takes to provide that extra steering, depth and detail? In my room, it's room design and preparation that's going to add a lot the performance and any better performing equipment is simply going to be lost.
 
I'll let you into a little secret, and this is me being way over the top. I put a lot of emphasis on Dirac Live to correct an open plan asymmetric room. Now I don't want to get your hopes up because realistically room issues should be resolved first, but I didn't do that and moved straight onto room EQ. And it delivered!

Has skipping over correcting the room issues harmed the overall result? Yes. I still have awkward bass and side wall reflection issues. No room EQ is going to miraculously cure these, but it helps more than I hoped it would, and that's down to timing or impulse correction that you get with ARC and Dirac Live.

I don't seem to be coming up with any real advice here do I?! I guess the summary is you can use Dirac Live to improve the sound in awkward spaces, but don't do what I did and skip some important room preparation first. If that means delaying an AVR purchase to push capital in favour of soft furnishings, maybe a little room alteration here and there, it'll be worth it, although I know you won't thank me for it until you've heard the results. Mmm, actually, you could skip it, find the flaws and correct them, and then hear the improvement for yourself. I'm going to stop now because I'm not helping!
You are helping a lot! After all my years of searching for better sound, the best thing I have ever done is to install Gik Acoustic panels in my room. Treat the room and make it sound great and your hifi equipment will sing. It is pointless to buy an expensive hifi and use it in an untreated room. Treating your room and using cheaper hifi sound will sound better than expensive hifi in an untreated room. Sort out the early reflections and any zing or echo/reverb problems first - it is worth the outlay but you will not regret it.
 
When I bought my PSA sub from Ricky at Kalibrate we were chatting about Arcam receivers and I still have the AVR600. Anyway, I remember him saying he used the AVR390 extensively because it had the same processor, etc as the bigger amps and it the only difference was the power of the amps.
I'd still love to demo the AVR 860 though but that plus the cost of the amps would be way over my budget. I have to learn to love what I have!
 
I have a av860 i think if it is going to sound better than an 850 it will be down to the power amp you choose. Some owners have reported shutdowns using the Internal amps It's been mentioned already using pre-outs is a compromise. I'm using ATI class D power amp And couldn't be happier.
 
I have a av860 i think if it is going to sound better than an 850 it will be down to the power amp you choose. Some owners have reported shutdowns using the Internal amps It's been mentioned already using pre-outs is a compromise. I'm using ATI class D power amp And couldn't be happier.
I don’t understand. The 860 has no internal amps. My 850 has never shut down.
 
I'm thinking of adding a ati class d amp for my front three speakers to help out my 850. This is obviously an expensive option. As a cheaper alternative I'm also thinking about adding a cheaper power amp for the back four (2 x surround, 2 x ceiling) which will then free up the Arcam to look after the front three, any thoughts?
 
@JEDIBLADE So you're running your AVR850 in 5.1.2? The amps in the 850 are already amazing and Arcam have plenty of provision from a huge power supply. I don't recall anyone complaining about clipping or running out of headroom. Perhaps that's a thing a very large room but...

Don't get me wrong, but this really looks like a solution without a problem. If you're looking for system improvements, how about a second E112 (unless you're already using multiple subs)?
 

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