Arcam AVR390 vs AVR550 Vs AVR850 AV860 As a Processor ONLY

@JEDIBLADE So you're running your AVR850 in 5.1.2? The amps in the 850 are already amazing and Arcam have plenty of provision from a huge power supply. I don't recall anyone complaining about clipping or running out of headroom. Perhaps that's a thing a very large room but...

Don't get me wrong, but this really looks like a solution without a problem. If you're looking for system improvements, how about a second E112 (unless you're already using multiple subs)?

I have the 850 amp powering B&W 804 D3s and the HTM2 D3 matching centre in a 7.2.4 system. My room isn't big, only 20 foot long by 9 foot wide and I rarely listen above 65-70. I was told that I need a better power amp to run the L, C and R channels because the speakers need more "oomph" into them. Any opinions please? Would putting a 200 watt amp into them, such as the Arcam P49, make them sound better than the 850's amps and in what way would they sound better?
Thank you.
 
@JEDIBLADE So you're running your AVR850 in 5.1.2? The amps in the 850 are already amazing and Arcam have plenty of provision from a huge power supply. I don't recall anyone complaining about clipping or running out of headroom. Perhaps that's a thing a very large room but...

Don't get me wrong, but this really looks like a solution without a problem. If you're looking for system improvements, how about a second E112 (unless you're already using multiple subs)?
I love the 850 too. I haven't done the latest firmware update yet but will soon.
 
@dyson2004 Wow, more power!?! Those D3's aren't particularly hard to drive at 8ohms and 89db/w@1m. If they were more like 83ish, then you'd need approximately twice the power to be at the same levels you have now. But no problem for an AVR850 to drive whatsoever.

My lounge area is 10 1/2ft x 14ft. I use an AVR550 into a pair of GB1s augmented by a sub, plus centre and rears. It's carpeted with soft fabric furnishings, so good absorbers. However it's part of an open plan space which combined is larger than twice that area. I don't have any power issues from the AVR550 to fill the room with a performance that's too loud for comfortable listening in either stereo or surround. Only my sub has trouble keeping up. So do you need more power in your room? No!

I'm going to hazard a guess that your ceiling is approximately 9ft high? Is that true? In which case you have a room incidental you cannot do anything about.

What you might find is a different problem with those enormous speakers placed in a room of that size, and that is they might be starved of space to breathe. I'm not kidding here, but there is such a thing as too big! Couple that with an incidental and you're multiplying the problem.

So what's the trick? Don't bother with wall based room treatments to cure incidentals, that's a complete and utter waste of time. Smaller speakers that you can place in open space with a very carefully placed listening position could make a big difference. Soft furnishings are going to be the only way to go, so no hard floors, and you might very well need treatment at ceiling level to stop first/second reflections there. The smaller speakers that give more flexibility to position mean less room treatment will be necessary. If it's also a lounge or used for other purposes, then this stuff isn't exactly desirable to have in the room!

Sorry it's not the answer you're look for, but it's going to be the message in 2019: The biggest influence on sound in a room is the room itself.
 
I'm thinking of adding a ati class d amp for my front three speakers to help out my 850. This is obviously an expensive option. As a cheaper alternative I'm also thinking about adding a cheaper power amp for the back four (2 x surround, 2 x ceiling) which will then free up the Arcam to look after the front three, any thoughts?

What speakers are your front three?
 
@t bone You may have a point there, because looking at the ATCs in @JEDIBLADE 's sig, they're not the easiest things in the world to drive. Unless there's a particular reason for sticking with the ATCs, you might be better off looking at upgrading those rather than adding more amps. Moving from 85db/w@1m to 88+ and something that has some genuine depth to them could yield big improvements.
 
@dyson2004 Wow, more power!?! Those D3's aren't particularly hard to drive at 8ohms and 89db/w@1m. If they were more like 83ish, then you'd need approximately twice the power to be at the same levels you have now. But no problem for an AVR850 to drive whatsoever.

My lounge area is 10 1/2ft x 14ft. I use an AVR550 into a pair of GB1s augmented by a sub, plus centre and rears. It's carpeted with soft fabric furnishings, so good absorbers. However it's part of an open plan space which combined is larger than twice that area. I don't have any power issues from the AVR550 to fill the room with a performance that's too loud for comfortable listening in either stereo or surround. Only my sub has trouble keeping up. So do you need more power in your room? No!

I'm going to hazard a guess that your ceiling is approximately 9ft high? Is that true? In which case you have a room incidental you cannot do anything about.

What you might find is a different problem with those enormous speakers placed in a room of that size, and that is they might be starved of space to breathe. I'm not kidding here, but there is such a thing as too big! Couple that with an incidental and you're multiplying the problem.

So what's the trick? Don't bother with wall based room treatments to cure incidentals, that's a complete and utter waste of time. Smaller speakers that you can place in open space with a very carefully placed listening position could make a big difference. Soft furnishings are going to be the only way to go, so no hard floors, and you might very well need treatment at ceiling level to stop first/second reflections there. The smaller speakers that give more flexibility to position mean less room treatment will be necessary. If it's also a lounge or used for other purposes, then this stuff isn't exactly desirable to have in the room!

Sorry it's not the answer you're look for, but it's going to be the message in 2019: The biggest influence on sound in a room is the room itself.

Hi Chester,
Thank you for your reply. My ceiling is 8 feet high. The actual room has no problems any more as I installed Gik Acoustic panelling in the correct places as recommended by Gik. I like the sound of the room, no echo or fizz or pinging. The B&W 804 D3's are the smallest floorstanders of that range and I have wondered if they are a bit big for my room. I have considered selling them and buying 805 D3 stand mounts instead as I read that the 805's have a warmer sound because of the bigger mid-range drivers. I have also considered changing to KEFs. I also use REL T9i subs, presently used with hi-inputs from the 850's speaker out as well as the .1 channel.
I never think that my 804s produce too much bass, that isn't the problem. It was because I was told that my 850 amp is underpowered for the 804's and I have taken it to heart, thinking I am missing a big step-up in quality without using a power amp on the L&R's.
Thanks.
 
@dyson2004 Wow, more power!?! Those D3's aren't particularly hard to drive at 8ohms and 89db/w@1m. If they were more like 83ish, then you'd need approximately twice the power to be at the same levels you have now. But no problem for an AVR850 to drive whatsoever.

My lounge area is 10 1/2ft x 14ft. I use an AVR550 into a pair of GB1s augmented by a sub, plus centre and rears. It's carpeted with soft fabric furnishings, so good absorbers. However it's part of an open plan space which combined is larger than twice that area. I don't have any power issues from the AVR550 to fill the room with a performance that's too loud for comfortable listening in either stereo or surround. Only my sub has trouble keeping up. So do you need more power in your room? No!

I'm going to hazard a guess that your ceiling is approximately 9ft high? Is that true? In which case you have a room incidental you cannot do anything about.

What you might find is a different problem with those enormous speakers placed in a room of that size, and that is they might be starved of space to breathe. I'm not kidding here, but there is such a thing as too big! Couple that with an incidental and you're multiplying the problem.

So what's the trick? Don't bother with wall based room treatments to cure incidentals, that's a complete and utter waste of time. Smaller speakers that you can place in open space with a very carefully placed listening position could make a big difference. Soft furnishings are going to be the only way to go, so no hard floors, and you might very well need treatment at ceiling level to stop first/second reflections there. The smaller speakers that give more flexibility to position mean less room treatment will be necessary. If it's also a lounge or used for other purposes, then this stuff isn't exactly desirable to have in the room!

Sorry it's not the answer you're look for, but it's going to be the message in 2019: The biggest influence on sound in a room is the room itself.

Chester, I forgot to say that my room is carpeted with curtains and soft furnishings. I also have GIK panels installed on my ceiling (as well as the walls) between my listening position and the speakers. The room is only used for listening to music and watching TV.
Thanks.
 
What speakers are your front three?

Hi, my front three are atc scm 11's. I've no intention of changing them, the sound and look of them is perfect to me. Amp's will change not speakers!
 
Oh OK, LOL! So, with the volume at your normal listening position with a fairly busy energetic piece of music, crank it up say 10 or 15 more and does it still sound as though there's plenty in the tank? If so, you've got plenty of headroom and your speakers don't need a bigger amp. If you have an SPL meter, it would be interesting to know what the peak is at your normal listening volume.

With GIK absorption panels in place, some energy from the room will be lost. A 12% difference between height and width is not ideal, but the ceiling panel absorbing that reflection will certainly help. I think it would be very interesting to see your DIRAC curves, especially before correction, and even more for bass correction.
 
My amp's currently at Arcam being repaired, when I get it back I'll do some comparisons.
 
My amp's currently at Arcam being repaired, when I get it back I'll do some comparisons.
Looks like you have sold the Arcam 850 & have gone for the Denon x8500. If so how is the Denon x8500 compare to the Arcam you had?

Thanks.
 
Not the exact question, but I’ve had a x6300, x6400 & recently has an x6700 and whilst good, reliable and plenty of features non sounded anywhere near as good as my Arcam AVR550 or Lexicon MC-10 (AV860).
 
Not the exact question, but I’ve had a x6300, x6400 & recently has an x6700 and whilst good, reliable and plenty of features non sounded anywhere near as good as my Arcam AVR550 or Lexicon MC-10 (AV860).
hmmn, interesting so u returned the x6700? if so any specific reason?

Thanks.
 
No I just moved it to another room as have a few AV setups (Lounge, Cinema & man room) etc, although I did eventually sell it on. My plan was for the x6700 to be in my main setup, but after giving it a good go for quite a few weeks and rerunning EQ a few times it ultimately did not have the great sound of the Arcam. I have an x4500 and it sounds similar to that tbh, not great for music, ok and respectable for films but not as good as the Arcam. When I had the Denon I had both a JVC PJ and TV in the same room and the Denon functions better as a dual output HDMI switch than the Arcam.
 
No I just moved it to another room as have a few AV setups (Lounge, Cinema & man room) etc, although I did eventually sell it on. My plan was for the x6700 to be in my main setup, but after giving it a good go for quite a few weeks and rerunning EQ a few times it ultimately did not have the great sound of the Arcam. I have an x4500 and it sounds similar to that tbh, not great for music, ok and respectable for films but not as good as the Arcam. When I had the Denon I had both a JVC PJ and TV in the same room and the Denon functions better as a dual output HDMI switch than the Arcam.
Thanks for the inputs :) Merry Xmas
 

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