Audyssey And Crossover Settings

shodan

Distinguished Member
Hey Folks, had a bit of a play around with the amp settings and ended up re running the audessy setup..
So..
AVR DENON 3600
5.1 speakers made up of Dali Zensor 1's and the Dali Zensor Vokal for centre studies
Subwoofer is the BK ELEC Monolith.

So the frequency response of the Dali 1s is 53 - 26500hz
The Vokal is 47hz - 26500hz
Audessy has put the crossovers for the fronts as 60hz and the rats and centre at 40hz.
It has put the LPF for the LFE at 80hz.

I've a feeling I'd benefit more from from setting the crossover as the same for all 5 speakers and seeing it at about 80hz instead of 40 or 60hz.
The only consideration is the Vokal is quite large and I would imagine it can do 50hz for its duties comfortably so if I mixed that crossover to 80hz then the bass from the sub on deep voices may become too prominent...

What do you guys think? I think 40hz crossovers is too low for the surroynds and even 60hz may be too low, these are not big speakers.

I use to love all this and actually used to spend more time tweaking the system than I did actually watching anything, but now I can't be asked and much prefer to just watch and forget about all this...
 
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gibbsy

Moderator
After running Audyssey you should set all speakers to small, lift your crossover to 80hz and set LPF for LFE to 120hz. On your sub also set the crossover to it's maximum. Worth reading the opening to this excellent thread by @dante01.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
I believe Denon has ability to use two bass management settings. So the above for movies but you could use another for music is 60hz for main speaker and sub
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I believe Denon has ability to use two bass management settings. So the above for movies but you could use another for music is 60hz for main speaker and sub
It's a global setting for the sub on all multi channel settings. The second crossover for the sub can only be used in the two channel settings and only when speakers are set to small. However the 3600 does not have this option and is for the X4500, X6500 and X8500.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
So 4500 and up has two bass management settings say 80hz for all for movies, then when you press 2ch mode you can use small 60hz to small and sub to 40hz? If so that's pretty useful.

Of course if avr had pure analogue bypass or dac but no bass management you have full range mains, no sub.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
So 4500 and up has two bass management settings say 80hz for all for movies, then when you press 2ch mode you can use small 60hz to small and sub to 40hz? If so that's pretty useful.

Of course if avr had pure analogue bypass or dac but no bass management you have full range mains, no sub.
I don't use my Denon for two channel music, simply not good enough. That's left to my Rega stereo amp that has HT by-pass.

Sorry Shodan for hickjacking........fellow dog owner that you are. :)
 

shodan

Distinguished Member
After running Audyssey you should set all speakers to small, lift your crossover to 80hz and set LPF for LFE to 120hz. On your sub also set the crossover to it's maximum. Worth reading the opening to this excellent thread by @dante01.
I know that 80hz is generally the excepted crossover setting and this came about I think from the Tomlinson Holman Experiment (THX).
It makes sense because most speakers are not full range and so at around 80hz and below they struggle to produce frequencies and when they do the quality suffers and the power requirements and impedance greatly increase - so a dedicated channel is used (Subwoofer) and that picks up the duties.
No crossover is an exact cutoff so setting the subs crossover to max means the sub doesn't discard any part of the signal it receives from the LPF (Low Pass Filter) of up to 120hz and everything from below the crossover - say 80hz.
I already knew all this from being involved in this for years (here since 2001!😂) but I'm a bit rusty.
I think the audessy has got it wrong setting my surrounds crossover to 60hz and the centre to 40hz with the LPF at 80hz. Maybe I've got some monster room gains from the speaker positions..

Anyway, I'm going old school, the crossovers are all getting 80hz (might keep the centre to 60hz so the sub doesn't muddle it as much). And the avr LPF to 120hz.....
 

Dolus

Active Member
80Hz crossover was selected because below 80Hz humans have a hard time locating where those frequencies come from which gives more options for placing a subwoofer anywhere in a room.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
80Hz crossover was selected because below 80Hz humans have a hard time locating where those frequencies come from which gives more option for placing a subwoofer anywhere in a room.
People don't have a hard time locating such frequencies and they have no ability what so ever to locate such frequencies. The human auditory system simply has no ability to localise any frequency below 80Hz. Most people cannot even localise frequencies below 200Hz. 80Hz is the extreme limit of the human auditory capability to localise frequencies and no one can localise anything at or below this frequency.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
Also note that Audyssey has nothing to do with an AV receiver's bass management. Audyssey is a room EQ correction system. Audyssey themselves do however suggest people follow THX's guidlines on bass management though and this stems from the founding members of Audyssey once being employees of THX.

The only aspect of a receiver's calibration that Audyssey would be respomsible for relative to your receiver's manufacturer's implimentation of bass manafement would be Audyssey's measurement of the roll off points of your speakers. Audyssey wouldn't however then deal with any bass management. Audyssey's own advice often contradicts that which the AV receiver's manufacturer is suggesting post calibration. Audyssey actually advise that you ignore speaker size setting and crossovers set by AV receivers and set all speakers as SMALL irrespective of their size or rated capabilities.

Audyssey would also suggest you not set any crossover below 80Hz, but do suggest you not set a crossover lower than the frequency measured post calibration. The reasoning being that this is effectively the roll off for that speaker so you'd not want to send frequencies below this point to that speaker.

Note that bass management is in effect even if you rurn Audyssey off and Audyssey isn't responsible for managing your AV receiver's bass. Audyssey EQ correction and an AV receiver's bass management are two seperate entities and Audyssey doesn't deal with speaker sizes, crossovers or bass management.
 
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rccarguy

Active Member
So you're saying if I play a 80hz tone on the sub I won't be able to point to where the sound is coming from?


Errrr..ok.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Exactly.

This is why redirecting lower range frequencies away from your speakers for the sub to portray works. It doesn't matter that these frequencies are being portrayed by the sub because the sub's location isn't being made apparent to you by what it is outputting.

The sub is in effect invisible and you shouldn't be able to detect where it is by what it is outputting.
 

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