Audyssey App discussion - chat about midrange compensation and post your graphs here!

Those results are pretty good I think. I always get a dip between 70 and 80hz too with my bk sub. You could always try moving the sub slightly or use different mic positions see if that helps.
 
Cool, but of course that presumes you are using full frequency spectrum correction.
If using the 'MuleEQ Filter Freq Range' limiter employing the Schroeder method link and calculator ‘Schroeder Frequency’ , this then negates applied high end roll off.

Also by limiting the correction to the bass (500Hz and below) you don't use Mid Range Compensation (BBC dip). This is not required on good quality modern speakers and may have a detrimental effect as Audyssey applies it a set mid/high frequency crossover point which probably is not the same point as the individual speakers design. Eg; Audyssey applies the dip at the 2 kHz region where as the individual speakers crossover point may be 2.8 kHz.

Bottom line is, letting Audyssey do it's thing full tilt is perfect for the majority of users however the ability to tweak via the app allows us to get that bit more out of our kit!

I would ask these two questions;
  1. Why does Audyssey (via the app) allow us to limit the correction to just the bass frequencies?
  2. Why does Audyssey (via the app) allow us to turn off 'mid range compensation'?
Some time ago I put together a little 'how to guide' that worked for me and really got my set up singing. Needs a bit of an update but let me know if you'd would like me to revise it and post?


I think that would be a great idea. It would be brilliant to find most of the answers you are looking for in one place have someone explain how the app can be used and adapted.
 
Has the app been updated so that the sub issue is now fixed ?, I’m asking because I like using the app on the iPad over the inbuilt audessy.

I doubt you can run the inbuilt then adjust using the app ?.
 
Has the app been updated so that the sub issue is now fixed ?, I’m asking because I like using the app on the iPad over the inbuilt audessy.

I doubt you can run the inbuilt then adjust using the app ?.

You can modify the curve for the sub so you do not get that drop-off between 30Hz and 20Hz if that is what you're referring to. I thought we'd had confirmation that no EQ was taking place under 20.
 
You can modify the curve for the sub so you do not get that drop-off between 30Hz and 20Hz if that is what you're referring to. I thought we'd had confirmation that no EQ was taking place under 20.

Thanks, to be honest I haven’t read all the thread, I just noticed an app update a few weeks ago and wondered if it was fixed.

So no eq takes place with just the app or both app and inbuilt Audessy ?.

To be honest I’m a bit clueless as to adjusting anything using the app, is there a dummies guide on what the various options do ?.
 
Thanks, to be honest I haven’t read all the thread, I just noticed an app update a few weeks ago and wondered if it was fixed.

So no eq takes place with just the app or both app and inbuilt Audessy ?.

To be honest I’m a bit clueless as to adjusting anything using the app, is there a dummies guide on what the various options do ?.

No dummies guide, though tebbo65 is going to put one together :)

We don't have visibility of what the inbuilt EQ does, but the assumption is that it applies the drop-off (between ~30Hz and 20Hz) but doesn't EQ anything below 20Hz, as I can't see why they would implement this only for the app.
 
Hold on guys, on my hols in Tenerife at the mo but still feeding the AV addiction :p.
Don't get your expectations up too much. I'll post my guide in a bit but it's more of a 'how I calibrate' thing using the app rather than an app user guide. However I'm sure I do have a specific app guide which I'll also share.
To confirm, the enforced - 3dB drop off at 20Hz has now been rectified via the last app update. Any drop off you see now is a reflection of your subs cababilty/positioning etc.
Will post stuff later today when I'm back in front of my laptop :)
 
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Hi all, sorry for the delay. The Sun & Beer is great here in Tenerife but the Internet is pants!!!
As promised see attached a copy of the official Audyssey MultEQ App guide. Also my guide to how I set up systems (lots) using the app.
However;
  • I have compiled it knowing what I know and appreciate parts of it may be gobbledegook to some. But please do ask stupid questions and I'll do my best to clarify.
  • Results will always vary on room acoustic environment,room treatment, speaker/sub capability/placement etc. Auto EQ will only do so much.
  • I'm mainly basing it on use with Audyssey XT32. Audyssey XT requires a bit of extra work.
  • Later Denon/Marantz models may vary slightly from my unit in how they function, Subwoofer level adjust for example. However ask and again I can clarify.
  • I am a big believer in limiting Audyssey Auto Correction to the bass frequencies (Schroeder). However you may prefer or your environment may require full range correction?
  • Mid Range Compensation is negated by my use of Schroeder but will be left for you to decide if it's on or off if employing full range correction. Do some research but my advice, switch it off. I know that where it is applied by Audyssey 2kHz isn't even the crossover point of my speakers!
  • You will notice I don't refer to or need to use the 'Curve Editor' at all.
Enjoy :thumbsup:
 

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I have a question about mic positioning, my MLP is one side of a 2 seater basic leather recliner sofa. Ear level is just about 2” higher than the back of the sofa and quite close to it when I’m sat normally. Positions 7&8 are fairl close but just behind the back of the sofa. Do you think this will be affecting calibration at all ?. Distances for example seem very accurate.

My sofa is about mid room which is 20’x12’ roughly.
 
Think you're absolutely fine. You would only get issues if your sofa was near the back wall. Also by making sure the mic is 2 inches above the sofas back rest you are not getting unwanted reflections. Distances by the way are calculated from measurement 1.
 
Regarding Schroeder, what value are people using for the reverb time as part of the calculation?

It defaults to 0.5s on the calculation site, but if you use this calculation site to determine the value it can change the overall result massively:

Reverberation Time

..but as part of that reverb calculation, you can enter the absorption coefficients (for my room it defaults to 0.3), which in turn massively affect the reverb value, so this seems to be the key value to get right as it flows through and massively affects the other calculations!
 
Regarding Schroeder, what value are people using for the reverb time as part of the calculation?

It defaults to 0.5s on the calculation site, but if you use this calculation site to determine the value it can change the overall result massively:

Reverberation Time

..but as part of that reverb calculation, you can enter the absorption coefficients (for my room it defaults to 0.3), which in turn massively affect the reverb value, so this seems to be the key value to get right as it flows through and massively affects the other calculations!
Great question! I've always used the default and not got too hung up on it. But it would be good to get it right.
Research required me thinks!
 
Great question! I've always used the default and not got too hung up on it. But it would be good to get it right.
Research required me thinks!
Found this which is a crude way of explaining how to calculate reverb time

However it's obviously the clap test for echo. I would suggest if like me you've an environment which doesn't produce echo keep the value low, default???
I would only be concerned for large, echoey spaces. Then, treatment is the way to go or allow full range correction.
I think as long as you are cutting the frequency of individual speaker's between 200 & 500Hz you are achieving the desired Schroder effect although maybe not to the exact Hz.
 
It's interesting, as if you assume the default absorption coefficients (0.3 for my room), that results in a reverb of 0.280 which equates to Schroeder of 181Hz, whereas just leaving as default 0.5, that's a Schroeder of 242Hz which is a pretty decent difference.

I think the answer still remains whatever sounds best between around 200 and 500, but it's an interesting subject and once I've messed around with that range if my preference is at the lower end I might try dipping down as low as 180 to see if I can tell any difference...
 
It's interesting, as if you assume the default absorption coefficients (0.3 for my room), that results in a reverb of 0.280 which equates to Schroeder of 181Hz, whereas just leaving as default 0.5, that's a Schroeder of 242Hz which is a pretty decent difference.

I think the answer still remains whatever sounds best between around 200 and 500, but it's an interesting subject and once I've messed around with that range if my preference is at the lower end I might try dipping down as low as 180 to see if I can tell any difference...
Interesting indeed my learned friend.
From what I have read and as I am sure you are aware there is lots to read, 200Hz seems to be the lowest point at which you would want to cut off correction as it is below this value where auto EQ benefits. I bet it would be hard to hear a difference between 181Hz and 242Hz unless there are significant peaks and nulls before calibration. It is my understanding the main benefit is in the higher frequency spectrum where the need for correction is not a necessity.
My rooms Schroeder number is 239Hz (using the default) reverb value which I am happy with as my lowest cut off point irrespective of 'before' results. However, due to peaks and nulls being present on certain sets of speakers I slide up the point at which correction kicks in to flatten these out.
So I end up with;
Fronts 239Hz, Center 239Hz, Surrounds 310Hz, Surround Backs 239Hz, Front Heights 372Hz & Rear Heights 349Hz
Of course it is horses for courses and please share your findings. Now shall we get onto the subject of 'Room Temperature' and it's affect on Schroeder calculations :suicide:.
 
Just got a marantz 6013 and once my monolith sub comes back from repair I'm going to set it up. It seems like the audyssey app is a must... is there an faq, step by step guide or tips and tricks before I bowl in? I figure there will be some do's and dont's with this type of thing. I'm very familiar with audyssey setup from my last Avr but not used the app before.
 
I had an interesting experience with Audyssey over the weekend. I read it's better to turn the sub dial to about 11pm/12pm and have a lower sub level on the avr so thought I would try it.

Sub dial 11pm, Audyssey returned -10db, I increased the sub level via the Audio menu to -7db and there was hardly any bass at all.

I then turned the sub dial back to about 9pm, ran Audyssey and got -6db, I increased the sub level via the Audio menu to -3db (same increase as previous test) and it was back to how it was before, plenty of nice deep bass how it should sound.

I think this was why I wasn't impressed with the sub when I first got as I set the dial on the higher side. According to a youtube channel called subwoofer 101, this should sound better but was very much the opposite for me. Not sure how this can be as Audyssey adjusts the level of the sub accordingly depending on the sub dial position. The graph/curve was pretty much identical to each other so why this happens in a mystery to me.
 
I had an interesting experience with Audyssey over the weekend. I read it's better to turn the sub dial to about 11pm/12pm and have a lower sub level on the avr so thought I would try it.

Sub dial 11pm, Audyssey returned -10db, I increased the sub level via the Audio menu to -7db and there was hardly any bass at all.

I then turned the sub dial back to about 9pm, ran Audyssey and got -6db, I increased the sub level via the Audio menu to -3db (same increase as previous test) and it was back to how it was before, plenty of nice deep bass how it should sound.

I think this was why I wasn't impressed with the sub when I first got as I set the dial on the higher side. According to a youtube channel called subwoofer 101, this should sound better but was very much the opposite for me. Not sure how this can be as Audyssey adjusts the level of the sub accordingly depending on the sub dial position. The graph/curve was pretty much identical to each other so why this happens in a mystery to me.


That is interesting as the more i’ve read - the more I’ve been convinced
that the way to move forward is to keep the AVR trim down (no higher than -5) and if you want greater bass, to use the gain on the sub. I may experiment a bit more now .
 
I added a BK monolith+ to my system this weekend and as a result, recalibrated settings. I am generally happy with the room correction results for the front 3 speakers, but there appears to be a large dip at 90hz with the results for sub. Is this normal or should I look to change things? I’ve have added some images below and would greatly welcome any input.

For reference - I have set the crossover point for the front 3 speakers at 80hz and have also set the LPF of the LFE channel at 80hz in an attempt to cascade the crossovers.
 

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Hi,
I have taken the plunge and purchase the Audyssey App.
These are the results I got.
I have no clue as to what all this means.
Hopefully someone can guide me as to how this looks.
Thank you.
Alex.
 

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Here are the rest of the Images.
Thank you.
Alex.
 

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For reference - I have set the crossover point for the front 3 speakers at 80hz and have also set the LPF of the LFE channel at 80hz in an attempt to cascade the crossovers.
That's a Big No No! You need to set your LPF of LFE (in the AVR) to 120Hz and the dial on your sub to Off or as high as it will go if off isn't an option.

I added a BK monolith+ to my system this weekend and as a result, recalibrated settings. I am generally happy with the room correction results for the front 3 speakers, but there appears to be a large dip at 90hz with the results for sub. Is this normal or should I look to change things? I’ve have added some images below and would greatly welcome any input.
Your pretty much always going to have issues with cancellation when using a single sub. You could try moving it to minimise this but it's always going to be there to some extent. If your room is rectangular you could have a play with the room simulator in REW to see where the sub is likely to behave best.

I wouldn't worry too much about that notch just based on the graph as those aren't usually audible*, although its proximity to the crossover point is less than ideal and better placement could help there, as could experimenting with a higher crossover frequency.

*To show what i mean by not really audible: here's a post-Audyssey measurement of my sub showing a similar cancellation at 50Hz;
No Smoothing.jpg


And an approximation of how it should sound to human ears by using psychoacoustic smoothing;
Psychacoustic.jpg
 
That's a Big No No! You need to set your LPF of LFE (in the AVR) to 120Hz and the dial on your sub to Off or as high as it will go if off isn't an option.


Your pretty much always going to have issues with cancellation when using a single sub. You could try moving it to minimise this but it's always going to be there to some extent. If your room is rectangular you could have a play with the room simulator in REW to see where the sub is likely to behave best.

I wouldn't worry too much about that notch just based on the graph as those aren't usually audible*, although its proximity to the crossover point is less than ideal and better placement could help there, as could experimenting with a higher crossover frequency.

*To show what i mean by not really audible: here's a post-Audyssey measurement of my sub showing a similar cancellation at 50Hz;
View attachment 1190682

And an approximation of how it should sound to human ears by using psychoacoustic smoothing;
View attachment 1190683


Thank you so much for the detailed response. I may look to move the sub slightly as i’m stuck for where it can go, but am greatly reassured that the dip may not be noticeable.

In relation to setting the crossover on the sub and the AVR for the LFE channel at 80hz - I thought i’d give a couple of theories a go. In particular- section 111: setting crossovers is worth a read.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-...e-subwoofer-calibration-bass-preferences.html
 
Hi,
I have taken the plunge and purchase the Audyssey App.
These are the results I got.
I have no clue as to what all this means.
Hopefully someone can guide me as to how this looks.
Thank you.
Alex.

Your sub rolls off early at about 50hz. I need to get an AVR with xt32, your lines are so much smoother.

You could remove mid range compensation see if you prefer it.
 
Your sub rolls off early at about 50hz. I need to get an AVR with xt32, your lines are so much smoother.

You could remove mid range compensation see if you prefer it.

Agree with Jontell. Your sub rolls off where much of the deep bass is - namely 20hz to 50hz. You may want read around this and other threads on the forum to establish how to negate that. I also agree that you may want to turn off mid range compensation (MRC) and see whether you prefer it that way.
 

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