CES 2018: What to Expect? - article discussion

Sorry, but I really can't agree at all. HDR10 is fine, more than fine in fact. I've seen many 4K BDs in HDR10 and there are no issues, - no banding, no clipping, nothing at all. Look at some of the comparisons out there between HDR10 discs and DV discs, the differences are microscopic.

HDR is a mess because there are too many "standards". There should be only one, if that one was HDR10, then I'd be fine with that. It's a perfectly good format which works.
It looks ok my friend but it will struggle with TVs that have lower nits below 1000
It is like driving a car always on 3rd gear (static metadata and one baseline brightness for all scenes)...you can do it but...
Have a look on YouTube as some of Vincent hdtv videos when he compares hdr10 to dv. Put them next to each other’s and you will see a big difference (mad max scenes used)
In conclusion, it is ok but dynamic was needed from the start. This mess is because they didn’t agree initially....
Samsung proposed it free when they saw that dv exploited that big mistake
 
It looks ok my friend but it will struggle with TVs that have lower nits below 1000
It is like driving a car always on 3rd gear (static metadata and one baseline brightness for all scenes)...you can do it but...
Have a look on YouTube as some of Vincent hdtv videos when he compares hdr10 to dv. Put them next to each other’s and you will see a big difference (mad max scenes used)
In conclusion, it is ok but dynamic was needed from the start. This mess is because they didn’t agree initially....
Samsung proposed it free when they saw that dv exploited that big mistake

All of these comparisons are on low nit OLEDs though, where dynamic metadata makes a real difference. If you have a 1,000+ nit FALD then the differences are far reported to be far more marginal?

The Sony ZD9 is arguably the best HDR TV on the planet, fantastic HDR performance and it doesn't currently have DV or HDR10+, just plain old HDR10.

It will be very interesting to see what difference DV makes to ZD9/XE93 etc when it comes out, my guess is that any gains will be marginal.
 
i watched all of the nolan films which i believe uses HDR very sparingly, to me it gave a much more accurate picture ( although ive seen plenty of back crush)...there needs to be proper standards before they release all these new codecs, or its open season for any manufacturer to author these discs as they please. its getting to a point were the equipment you buy is obsolete in 12 months as it doesn't contain all the codecs that have been introduced... (it used to be at least 2/3 yrs) and the manufacturers are always reluctant to update your 12 month machine as they always say (it cant be done) which is BS, and it gives them a new sales angle for that particular year...

id prefer them to actually concentrate on panel uniformity and picture and sound quality more than anything else on the tv itself and find ways to solve the myriad of issues on all tv technology be it LED QLED OLED etc..

because at the end of the day..its always us consumers who lose out, when loads of different codecs and tv war formats happen isn't it?!!!!!
 
All of these comparisons are on low nit OLEDs though, where dynamic metadata makes a real difference. If you have a 1,000+ nit FALD then the differences are far reported to be far more marginal?

The Sony ZD9 is arguably the best HDR TV on the planet, fantastic HDR performance and it doesn't currently have DV or HDR10+, just plain old HDR10.

It will be very interesting to see what difference DV makes to ZD9/XE93 etc when it comes out, my guess is that any gains will be marginal.

Exactly. That’s why hdr10 is a mixed bag at present. OLED doesn’t do higher nits which then require tone mapping in smaller container. However, pixel control makes a big big difference

LCD goes super high but just zone control is a limitation
Neither technology good enough...let’s hope micro led or true qled sort that

Reading about hdr10+, it allows more room to manoeuvre than dv which is regimented. Reminds me of THX which where DV will end up.

I wish now they focused more on hdr and hfr plus pixel quality than 4k. Talking about 8k is even a bigger joke
 
While Mfrs are about creating points against their rivals.... IMHO the vast maj of folk just want to view Freeview without the ads.
+Given that there are other room-distractions, lights, puppies, children, etc. the need for HDR is only of use when you are in the dark ( and maybe that's alone - Oh dear ).
Brighter pixels and bigger screens will appeal to some; hence Mfrs can enjoy a few sales worldwide ( Justifying their R&D ); but most folks don't really care. . . . since the average TV is ON for the day and watched ( ie critically during a film, perhaps).... for just over an hour. "News" and stuff on "YT" is mostly not the best quality - yet folks watch this.
We don't really have enough "Spare-time" to be watching - and certainly not considering the latest Tech as a "I Must-have it".
There will be a limit to the TV size that modern smaller homes can accept - and unless the weight is reduced.... Anyone?

FWIW I bought my 3D 42" TV because it was cheap ( ~£300) and came with a free 3D BlueRay player .... I make Movies from time-to time otherwise I view Freeview via an "old" DVD-Recorder =PVR. So the player hardly gets used, other than to check DVDs I've made on the PC.

I thought projectors would take-over soon, as these adapt to whatever "Screen-space" is available ( and some compensate for dirty walls!).... but that tech hasn't caught on so prices remain high ( +Bulbs=Yikes!).

( Extra brightness doesn't interest me.... since 3D TV's are inherently dark, due to the polarising filters.... almost any normal TV will be far brighter than mine..... I didn't know this but it is still acceptable.).
 
Can't agree more with the mess of HDR right now. I have to keep adjusting brightness for each material i'm watching can be a real pain. Not sure if this the right time to get a television. Or is it? :eek:. At least my current set will take me another 2 to 3 yrs, then may be looking at Oled. Too much tech to confuse, & make spend more. On & on it goes.

I bet in 3yrs time I'll be saying the same thing.:D
 
@Mark Hodgkinson,

Will Denon be at CES this year?

I have just as much idea as you on that one. But i'm hoping they will be as I would like more info on their upcoming flagship AV amp (as opposed to an AV reciever) in the spring. I believe it's the AVC-X8500H.
 
It looks ok my friend but it will struggle with TVs that have lower nits below 1000
It is like driving a car always on 3rd gear (static metadata and one baseline brightness for all scenes)...you can do it but...
Have a look on YouTube as some of Vincent hdtv videos when he compares hdr10 to dv. Put them next to each other’s and you will see a big difference (mad max scenes used)
In conclusion, it is ok but dynamic was needed from the start. This mess is because they didn’t agree initially....
Samsung proposed it free when they saw that dv exploited that big mistake

I watched Vincent's comparison between Despicable Me in DV and HDR10, and the differences were so small as to be irrelevant.

I think people are getting too hung up over this. An OLED in HDR10 is already bright enough to be highly uncomfortable to watch. Any more is completely unnecessary. I get that in the real world reflections can be seriously bright, but I don't want anything that bright on my TV, ever.
 
I wish now they focused more on hdr and hfr plus pixel quality than 4k. Talking about 8k is even a bigger joke

8K is even more pointless than 3D. I can't believe TV manufacturers are wasting money on something so utterly trivial.

Unless TV screens suddenly become as big as walls then it will take an evolution in the human eye to hawk levels of clarity to make 8K anything other than willy waving. Let alone that Hollywood is still stuck in its 2K rut, so good luck getting them to go anywhere near 8K. With the way things are going we'll be lucky if they adopt 4K within the next decade.
 
I watched Vincent's comparison between Despicable Me in DV and HDR10, and the differences were so small as to be irrelevant.

I think people are getting too hung up over this. An OLED in HDR10 is already bright enough to be highly uncomfortable to watch. Any more is completely unnecessary. I get that in the real world reflections can be seriously bright, but I don't want anything that bright on my TV, ever.

That’s the problem my friend. It is not about more brightness but a real reproduction of reality dynamic range...
So far, I have seen nothing that impressed me. Either it is too bright or not enough or both at the wrong places...

In short, I am praying (literally) for the industry to have learned how to handle hdr. Fact that sony delayed DV by a year is GOOD news. Let’s see what big 3 do this year with hdr.

I don’t want a tan, just a nice realistic reproduction :)
 
You lot are too fussy asking for all this information
I will be grateful if i manage to understand any of it :thumbsdow
Thats where you good people help out, and put it putting in a language we can understand.
Especially if i try reading it on a Saturday Night !!! :confused::confused::confused::confused: Christmas Alcohol
 
I watched Vincent's comparison between Despicable Me in DV and HDR10, and the differences were so small as to be irrelevant.

I think people are getting too hung up over this. An OLED in HDR10 is already bright enough to be highly uncomfortable to watch. Any more is completely unnecessary. I get that in the real world reflections can be seriously bright, but I don't want anything that bright on my TV, ever.

+1
My Samsung (calibrated) maxes out at 5-600nits at most I bet and that is bright enough for me

With the benefits of OLED and DV for those sets at 1000nits and under, I’d be very happy in getting one.

Whatever the state of HDR and what not a 65” OLED will be my next TV

I’m sure these next gen quantum dot whatever could be great, but they won’t be 65” for less than £2500.

......then again they have dropped a HUGE amount from their initial release. One would guess at better yields too so they could drop quicker even?
 
I'm hoping to see a consumer-grade teleportation device.

With Bluetooth obviously.
But who will be the first to test it!
 
I mostly want to know about new 4k Blu-ray players that will support DV.
 
I mostly want to know about new 4k Blu-ray players that will support DV.
Same here. Almost bought the Oppo 203 2weeks ago but just thought I hold back with CES around the corner. Never know what meant be in the pipeline. :)
 
it will take an evolution in the human eye to hawk levels of clarity to make 8K anything other than willy waving

Apparently 8K is sought after is Japan ;)
 
Panasonic has a 4k blu ray player with HDR10+ and Dolby Vision in the pipeline. Strange being none of their televisions support Dolby Vision. This could only mean one thing, support for Dolby Vision with their 2018 TV sets line up. :)
 
Panasonic has a 4k blu ray player with HDR10+ and Dolby Vision in the pipeline. Strange being none of their televisions support Dolby Vision. This could only mean one thing, support for Dolby Vision with their 2018 TV sets line up. :)
You might want to catch up on the CES threads.

Spoiler: No DV support in 2018 Panasonic TVs
 
You might want to catch up on the CES threads.

Spoiler: No DV support in 2018 Panasonic TVs
Kind of silly really.o_O
 
You might want to catch up on the CES threads.

Spoiler: No DV support in 2018 Panasonic TVs

Thought the top end one had DV?
 
@Mark Hodgkinson - are you planning on hunting down Yamaha AV? Just curious if they will announcing any new AVRs/BD players :)

And a related thought - do you ever get AV cabinet makers at these things? If so - 'borrow' a Yamaha RX-A3070 and dump it on AV cabinet makers stand and ask them to stuff it in one of their cabinets complete with cables - when they fail to do so - just wink and tell them 'nuff said... - see if they get the hint ;)
 
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