Considering a plug in hybrid

Manufacturing a new car for you to purchase will cause more damage to the environment than you'll save by driving a green car.

Is this actually true, I've seen quite a few sources saying the manufacturing process is paid back within the first 3 or so years with an EV dependant in the source of the electric, and in the UK we're actually pretty green in our generation, and improving all the time.

One example with his sources quoted
 
Is this actually true

You're missing the important part of my post.

If you really want to be green.

Keep the car you've got until it's not economical to repair it anymore.

It might be 3 years until it's carbon neutral, but your old "dirty" car is already manufactured. It doesn't require steel to be processed, minerals to be dug out of the ground by child slaves, rubber and plastics to be manufactured.
 
You're missing the important part of my post.



It might be 3 years until it's carbon neutral, but your old "dirty" car is already manufactured. It doesn't require steel to be processed, minerals to be dug out of the ground by child slaves, rubber and plastics to be manufactured.
No, I understood what you were saying but I think it's wrong.

The video attached explains it better than I can but essentially cubing an existing ICE car is better for the environment as the CO2 produced burning fuel each year exceeds the CO2 used making it once you hit 3 years ish, depending on the cars and electricity generation mix in your country.
 
What's the charging rate of the PHEV you're considering?
I must admit, as a full EV user, seeing a PHEV plugged into a charger in town and taking hours to recharge their paltry 20 miles absolutely drives me barmy.
 
What's the charging rate of the PHEV you're considering?
I must admit, as a full EV user, seeing a PHEV plugged into a charger in town and taking hours to recharge their paltry 20 miles absolutely drives me barmy.

depends on the car, but- if they are on a destination charger why not
who cares if they get 20 miles, 80 miles or 150miles from a single charge- those chargers are for folk to plug in and leave it all day. The issue surely is lack of charging infrastructure which I guess you would have been aware of before buying full EV. Any electric mile is better than an ICE mile surely
 
What's the charging rate of the PHEV you're considering?
I must admit, as a full EV user, seeing a PHEV plugged into a charger in town and taking hours to recharge their paltry 20 miles absolutely drives me barmy.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV does have Chademo rapid charging capability, but only 22kW max, so can go from “empty” to 80% charged in 30 mins or less. And with a Type1 AC onboard charger you’ll not find them connected to the tethered T2 AC at a rapid for hours charging at 3.5kW.

Whether it’s worth the Outlander using DC rapid charging is another matter. If the journey is at high speed then unless reserving the charge for slower elements of the journey then probably not as EV range drops dramatically with speed on with this SUV.
 
[snip]

It all sounds complex - and perhaps it is, unnecessarily so. But such is the way of an open free market economy. It is fair to say that since I started paying attention in 2017, the number of charging stations has grown hugely;

Wife took delivery of her first Leaf today (well, I did, as she was at work). I highlighted your comment above, because I do agree, it does all seem a little bit complicated, but then again, you might have had a similar discussion about ICE cars at the start of the last century couldn't you?..

Okay, we have 3 main fuel types; Petrol, Diesel, and LPG. Most petrol and diesel is available in the following places;

Esso, Texaco, BP, Shell, many smaller local petrol stations and also supermarket petrol stations in Asda, Morrison's, Sainsbury's and Tesco. But not in M&S or Waitrose.

Fuel is in a liquid form, dispensed into your car by either self-service pumps (very popular towards the end of the 20th century and into current times) or historically by filling station staff that filled your car for you (not seen in the U.K. very often nowadays, although other countries such as the U.S. still employ people to do this for motorists).

Payment for your fuel is normally taken in the form of cash, card, contactless methods including mobile phones and also until around 5 years ago, cheques. Modern petrol pumps sometimes allow you to pay at the pump itself. You can, at most pumps opt to select a pre-limit, either in GBP or in litres of fuel, although this facility, whilst extremely common, is used very little in the U.K. as most motorists share the same irrational behaviour of filling their vehicle to the nearest £5, feeling ashamed if they put in £20.01 for example.

Now, that's the infrastructure discussed in detail. Here's a little bit about fuel itself. Most cars in the U.K run on either petrol or diesel, both refined from crude oil and shipped across the planet from the Middle East, although the U.K. also has it's own refineries. Traditionally, petrol has been the preserve of the performance car driver over the frugal, yet more limited performance of the diesel engine. More modern technology (especially Hybrid tech) has seen petrol engines shrink in size, more than matching the MPG figures of diesel machines, whilst keeping or increasing performance output.

Diesel cars have also over the years gone from being seen as having tank or tractor-like engine properties due to noise levels and lack of smoothness, to being very quiet and having good performance, with better torque than the equivalent sized petrol counterpart being a big pull (excuse the pun) for diesel drivers.

LPG is another less popular choice of fuel used in the U.K. Much like the 3D television, it did have it's place and still does for many, however a limited infrastructure and poor take-up by motorists has seen LPG largely ignored by the mainstream. LPG provides huge MPG figures at a much lower cost than petrol or diesel. Performance is more limited.

Petrol and Diesel fuels are also very commonly available in normally 2 standards at most fuel outlets, with the more expensive fuels claiming better performance (normally only noticed in already high performing engines) and a cleaner burn, resulting in less emissions.

With all of the above in mind, do we think that electric cars are really that complicated? Find a charge point that's compatible, plug a cable in, pay for it. Drive away when done. There are different phone apps, KWh measurements etc...but I don't think electric cars are in any way more complicated than what's gone before it - it's just new, that's all.

Humans don't like change, we're programmed not to.

I hope my lighthearted and in many ways incorrect (I'm sure) post serves to illustrate my point about things being not so difficult to grasp. In 10 years, it'll all be completely normal to lots of us :)
 
EV life is certainly more complicated in England.
In Scotland, public charging is not only free but is much simpler too.
One card, issued by chargeplace Scotland, activates all machines by touch - any brand.
I look at all the 'faff' EV drivers have to suffer in England and just shake my head.
 
EV life is certainly more complicated in England.
In Scotland, public charging is not only free but is much simpler too.
One card, issued by chargeplace Scotland, activates all machines by touch - any brand.
I look at all the 'faff' EV drivers have to suffer in England and just shake my head.

Since writing the post above yours on the 10th of June, my wife's Leaf has been delivered and I've changed my mind! The sheer number of different charge point providers is baffling! We've both got at least 4 different charging apps on our phones. Some of them need to have credit pre-loaded onto them too, which is a PITA if we don't use a particular charge point for a long time...

The home charger is getting installed tomorrow (hopefully, there's been a bit of confusion on date), so perhaps once that's installed and becomes the de facto charging point for the car, we won't have to mess about with public charging so much.

Scotland seems to have it sorted big time and free? Amazing!

In England, we're the only UK country to pay for prescription charges FGS, we aren't ever going to get free mileage out of Westminster are we? :(
 
Hi
never had one before, and I know very little about cars.
i don’t mind paying a premium for the car, and I’m more interested in the environmental aspects, rather than saving money.
but are they very expensive to maintain etc?
anything else I should be aware of?
many thanks for any advice...
We have a couple of hybrids a Mitsubushi Phev which is a plug in, range about 20 miles and a self charging Toyota Auris. i use the Auris for work as i frequently have to travel 100+ miles per day, my wife uses the phev.
Both are good the phev as my wifes daily driver we charge once a week as she works locally so very rarely have to purchase fuel the Toyota gives between 55/65 mpg dependant on motorway or town driving. I would be happy next time around to get an ev for my wife but feel happier with a hybrid for my daily ride as im not about to spend massive bucks on a tesla which gives great range at price. Both mitsi and toyota give very long gurantees on batteries and in the last 20 years of hybrid toyota production which is 3 mill cars 97% are still in use according to toyota.
maintance schedules are no different to normal cars at 12k, no maintance really for electrical bits. So i would say no real downsides to hybrids , 0 tax, lower insurance, lower fuel costs, thus far all good. Owned hybrids for 4 years.
 
We have a couple of hybrids a Mitsubushi Phev which is a plug in, range about 20 miles and a self charging Toyota Auris. i use the Auris for work as i frequently have to travel 100+ miles per day, my wife uses the phev.
Both are good the phev as my wifes daily driver we charge once a week as she works locally so very rarely have to purchase fuel the Toyota gives between 55/65 mpg dependant on motorway or town driving. I would be happy next time around to get an ev for my wife but feel happier with a hybrid for my daily ride as im not about to spend massive bucks on a tesla which gives great range at price. Both mitsi and toyota give very long gurantees on batteries and in the last 20 years of hybrid toyota production which is 3 mill cars 97% are still in use according to toyota.
maintance schedules are no different to normal cars at 12k, no maintance really for electrical bits. So i would say no real downsides to hybrids , 0 tax, lower insurance, lower fuel costs, thus far all good. Owned hybrids for 4 years.

Thanks Keith. Things have moved on now and I'm going down the full electric route, but I appreciate the information.
Cheers
 
Thanks Keith. Things have moved on now and I'm going down the full electric route, but I appreciate the information.
Cheers
Great what you getting? I did look at the bmw i3 with extender for a while and may well come back to it as i do believe it will become a future design classic as opposed to my jap white goods.
 
Great what you getting? I did look at the bmw i3 with extender for a while and may well come back to it as i do believe it will become a future design classic as opposed to my jap white goods.

I have a Polestar 2 on order. I've test driven a kia e-niro and tesla model 3, and really liked both. All are good, but I think the PS2 will be ideal for us. I know someone with an i3. Brilliant thing Imo...
 
I have a Polestar 2 on order. I've test driven a kia e-niro and tesla model 3, and really liked both. All are good, but I think the PS2 will be ideal for us. I know someone with an i3. Brilliant thing Imo...
Thats sweet, as im not in touch with Evs i must admit to knowing nothing about there product range, except to say Polestar was the sporting range of Volvo so assume its an all new electric derivative?
Either way looks fab, enjoy.
 
Thats sweet, as im not in touch with Evs i must admit to knowing nothing about there product range, except to say Polestar was the sporting range of Volvo so assume its an all new electric derivative?
Either way looks fab, enjoy.

Yes, now the division focusing on all electric. Looking forward very much, many thanks
 
Yes, now the division focusing on all electric. Looking forward very much, many thanks
would rather have my money in that than a tesla. Far Far nicer and actually doesnt look bad value.
 
would rather have my money in that than a tesla. Far Far nicer and actually doesnt look bad value.

I think all these cars have their strengths. The power and technology in the Tesla is amazing, but the PS is pretty good in lots of areas. Anyway, a couple of months and I should know how it is. Cheers
 
Apologies if mentioned before, but Mitsubishi are pulling out of the UK.
So their PHEV values will undoubtedly be adversely affected to a big degree.

EDIT - it's the whole of Europe Mitsubishi are pulling out of.
Interesting tweet from a Mitsu dealer on twitter about the range and the problems the dealers faced.
He's slightly less scathing of the Outlander PHEV than he is of the other cars, but (paraphrasing) says "even that isn't as clever as it looks, as it's basically just i-miev running gear shoehorned into the car along with a rubbish petrol engine"
 
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