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Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management

dante01

Distinguished Member
The sub's activity shouldn't be obvious. It is doing what it is supposed to, but it isn't making itself known to you.

Lower the crossovers would simply give the sub even less to do and reduce the headroom of the speakers in relation to higher frequencies, No, there's not really any reason to lower the crossovers other than to satisfy your ego as to the capabilities of those speakers..
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
So Dynamic Volume was intentionally created for people with room limitations? I thought this was a feature for "late night" use, when other people are sleeping. In my case, I just feel that it just brings my system to life, no matter what time of day or night
No, it was intentionally created to simulate full dynamic range without the sudden peaks in volume - it's a compressor and this is it's only job, with the one caveat being as volume increases the compression decreases - that's a handy algorithm at work, call it an auto variable compressor I guess.

There is an arguable case that if you have a very dynamic system, then late night mode is probably the better choice for 'Tv volume viewing' but the counterpoint to that would be - only a giant woman would use any kind of dynamic EQ on their system.

It does allow a lot of users that have wee ones enjoy their systems in the evenings and certainly every piece of music that you listen too will have multiple things run thru a compressor, and limiter and probably a gate etc - without these things recording anything in the rock 'n' pop genre would be a complete nightmare.

If you have a big peak in the room say in the 150hz range and turn the volume up then that will start to kill off multiple parts of your movie as that's creeping into voice territory and most other things. Dialogue intelligibility will start getting murdered and the number 1 solution most people do for this? - turn up the volume.

But people would rather worry about their sub woofers than these things and while they can also cause a shedload of problems your mid range is so very much more important.
 

Lorchan

Active Member
The sub's activity shouldn't be obvious. It is doing what it is supposed to, but it isn't making itself known to you.

Lower the crossovers would simply give the sub even less to do and reduce the headroom of the speakers in relation to higher frequencies, No, there's not really any reason to lower the crossovers other than to satisfy your ego as to the capabilities of those speakers..
Cheers!!
 

Roku2

Distinguished Member
No, it was intentionally created to simulate full dynamic range without the sudden peaks in volume - it's a compressor and this is it's only job, with the one caveat being as volume increases the compression decreases - that's a handy algorithm at work, call it an auto variable compressor I guess.

There is an arguable case that if you have a very dynamic system, then late night mode is probably the better choice for 'Tv volume viewing' but the counterpoint to that would be - only a giant woman would use any kind of dynamic EQ on their system.

It does allow a lot of users that have wee ones enjoy their systems in the evenings and certainly every piece of music that you listen too will have multiple things run thru a compressor, and limiter and probably a gate etc - without these things recording anything in the rock 'n' pop genre would be a complete nightmare.

If you have a big peak in the room say in the 150hz range and turn the volume up then that will start to kill off multiple parts of your movie as that's creeping into voice territory and most other things. Dialogue intelligibility will start getting murdered and the number 1 solution most people do for this? - turn up the volume.

But people would rather worry about their sub woofers than these things and while they can also cause a shedload of problems your mid range is so very much more important.
I feel that Dynamic Volume keeps dialogues clear while also enhancing surround sounds, whereas Dynamic EQ enhances surround sounds at the expenses of mid range.
By the way, I have my speakers set to "small" with Fronts and Center at 80Hz, Surrounds at 100Hz, and Front Heights at 150Hz
 

Roku2

Distinguished Member
Are there any benefits in setting surround speakers at 100Hz + fronts and center at 80Hz instead of setting them all of at 80Hz?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Are there any benefits in setting surround speakers at 100Hz + fronts and center at 80Hz instead of setting them all of at 80Hz?
No, not unless you've analysed the room's frequency response to dtermine whether or not it suffers from nulls? You'd need expensive measurement equipment to make such measurements.
 

Roku2

Distinguished Member
No, not unless you've analysed the room's frequency response to dtermine whether or not it suffers from nulls? You'd need expensive measurement equipment to make such measurements.
So is it safer to just keep all 'small' speakers at 80Hz?
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
So is it safer to just keep all 'small' speakers at 80Hz?
Buy a UIMIK mic and use REW if you want a definitive answer. There's very little difference between 80 and 100hz anyway. In a more sensitive system in a dedicated room it might be more stark.
 

royrajat

Novice Member
I have a query regarding the Denon AVRX1100W HDMI ports. Moderator if you think this is better suited elsewhere please feel free to move my post. Sp this one has 2x HDMI ports that are 4k compatible in addition to 4x regular HDMIs. I have tried to plug in my Xbox one to one of the 4K compatible ports (labelled as Game) but it doesn't output anything on the Tv which is a non-4K standard HD TV. However, when I plug it on to non-4K port on Denon it works fine. Doesn't the 4K ports support normal HD? Has it got to be outputted to a 4K TV? This makes this port unusable for me?
 

AV Online

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I have a query regarding the Denon AVRX1100W HDMI ports. Moderator if you think this is better suited elsewhere please feel free to move my post. Sp this one has 2x HDMI ports that are 4k compatible in addition to 4x regular HDMIs. I have tried to plug in my Xbox one to one of the 4K compatible ports (labelled as Game) but it doesn't output anything on the Tv which is a non-4K standard HD TV. However, when I plug it on to non-4K port on Denon it works fine. Doesn't the 4K ports support normal HD? Has it got to be outputted to a 4K TV? This makes this port unusable for me?
i suspect the Denon is outputting a 4K signal to the TV, which the TV is incapable of displaying, which would make the TV the weak link. There will be settings between the xbox and the Denon to change the output signal to 1080p instead, at which point the TV should then display the images just fine. If you dont have a 4k TV, then theres little point setting anything up to output a signal in 4k.
 

skahigh

Standard Member
Hi all, I have what I hope is a relatively simple question, I have searched but can't find an answer I'm afraid.

I've just ordered a Marantz NR1506 which has front channel pre outs, in the future I may hook these up to an integrated amp like the PM8005 with preamp bypass.

What I'm interested to know is where in the AVR signal path the high pass filter is applied for the crossover setting, more specifically, will the pre outs be passing the signal before or after the high pass filter is applied?

My guess is that the pre outs will pass the full range signal since it would be too restrictive to do otherwise?
 

AV Online

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
The signal output by the pre-outs will be subject to any bass management settings applied within the processor. If you want full range to go out to the dedicated amplifier, you would need to set the front speakers to full range.
 

skahigh

Standard Member
Ah that's excellent, just what I wanted to hear. :)

Thanks very much.

And thanks for shipping the cable I ordered at 1am this morning so promptly. :D
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Not sure if this is the right thread where to ask my question, but I have a Denon 910, and I was wondering what the difference was between setting Audio on "Reference" and setting audio on "Flat".
You'd be right in thinking this has nothing to do with the bass management. You've also asked the same question elsewhere and via PM. I answered your question via the PM you sent me.

You've now asked this question in three seperate threads are you're are technically breaching the board's rules by doing so.
 

Roku2

Distinguished Member
You'd be right in thinking this has nothing to do with the bass management. You've also asked the same question elsewhere and via PM. I answered your question via the PM you sent me.

You've now asked this question in three seperate threads are you're are technically breaching the board's rules by doing so.
I PMed you and posted in the threads at the same time...I will delete my posts
 

SirTiger007

Active Member
Hi guys, just another novice looking for some advice!

I've just bought a BK P12-300SB FF to replace a broken sub, pairing it with some very small Jamo speakers from 2007.
Their range is 150Hz +, so after running calibration through my new Denon x2300 the crossover is at 150Hz as expected.
Sub is set to 120Hz on the dial at the back, Filter off (ie Amp controlled) and gain at about 1/3 when calibrated.
Watching films and tv, volume is at about -20db.
Now I know the sub is a good one, it has blended nicely with the speakers and has a refinement and clarity the other didn't do - but at the low end it's not as... low as I expected.

For example, war of the worlds blu ray, the scene where the ground breaks open (we all know it) I only get the proper rumbles and so on if I crank the gain up to about 3/4, and then the rest of the sound is too bassy and loses its refinement.

How do I set it up so I get the refinement it has with an increased volume at the lower end?

Or am I asking entirely the wrong question??!
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
For example, war of the worlds blu ray, the scene where the ground breaks open (we all know it) I only get the proper rumbles and so on if I crank the gain up to about 3/4, and then the rest of the sound is too bassy and loses its refinement.

How do I set it up so I get the refinement it has with an increased volume at the lower end?

Or am I asking entirely the wrong question??!
I'd suggest this an issue more to do with your sub's placement in the room than something that can be addressed via the receiver's bass management.

Maybe consider repositioning the sub or maybe even adding an additional sub?
 

SirTiger007

Active Member
IMG_2842.JPG
I'd suggest this an issue more to do with your sub's placement in the room than something that can be addressed via the receiver's bass management.

Maybe consider repositioning the sub or maybe even adding an additional sub?
Ok, is there ever a way of being able to tell from pictures??! I have the sub here - the only place I could move it to is into the opposite corner of the room, between the 2 sofas. Worth a try? Or would it be too close to where we sit?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The only way to find out is to try it. You may find that some audio starts to become localised to the sub though if the sub is placed closer to your listening position. The boomy and less impact bass you initially described could be a result of having your sub tight up into a corner. Your sub does appear to be packed into that corner with furniture in close proximity to it.
 

AV Online

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I'd suggest this as being your first step:
Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips
This doesnt actually work that well. As ever there will be cases where it does work, but then if you pray to a glass of milk for a sunny day for long enough, eventually that prayer will be answered.

The bass you hear in any given position depends on the exact surrounding of the position at which you listen to the bass, as much as it does the response you derive from the subwoofers actual placement within a room. If you put your ear near the corner of a room, the bass will sound louder from the subwoofer, whether the sub is placed in a different corner or the middle of the room, because of boundary gain. If youre listening in the middle of the room, with little gain from boundaries, the bass from your subwoofer will sound weaker. Placing your subwoofer in the listening position and going to the spot you would place your sub is seldom a direct opposing response to placing the sub in the corner and then sitting in the middle of the room. This is easy to try and see how it works for you.

Generally, a listening position is a fixed dictated point, so you need to figure out how to get the bass good in that position. There are a few general rules that dictate a subs in room response that aid in placement choice. A corner position will boost the bass more than a non corner position. If your not getting enough bass, putting your sub closer to a corner will help boost it, if youre getting too much then the reverse is generally true. Its also easier for eq to tame a boomy subwoofer down a bit that it is for it to boost output, so its usually better to try get your sub closer to a corner when using something like Audyssey.

There are many variables, from a subwoofers actual capability, to the different shapes and sizes of room, to listening distances, and the effects in room objects will have. Working how how to get the very best response is usually only guaranteed if you experiment or measure the room.
 

AV Online

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
View attachment 779227
Ok, is there ever a way of being able to tell from pictures??! I have the sub here - the only place I could move it to is into the opposite corner of the room, between the 2 sofas. Worth a try? Or would it be too close to where we sit?
Large hollow boxes around your subwoofer could theoretically act as bass traps, which has potential to kill your bass. I would try a position where your sub isnt quite so buried by furniture. Even if only for experimentation, try another spot, even one where the sub cant stay, just to see how its sound changes. The experiment could help you gather a better mental picture of whats going on in your room.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Looking at @SirTiger007 position it is very similar to mine, sub between cabinet and wall. Putting it in the corner, which according to REL was it's preferred position it worked and sounded just right. But was with my old cabinet which was much smaller and standing on four legs. When the new cabinet arrived the whole bass changed for the worse. The new one was much wider, cutting down the space between cabinet side and wall considerably, plus the cabinet has no legs.

Moving the sub a matter of 12 inches forward solved the problem and I was back to the bass I prefer. The back of the sub is now in line with the front of the cabinet.
 

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