Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management

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hi guys,

I recently got a Cambridge Audio CXR200, and this is the first AVR which also has a crossover on the subwoofer settings, so what do I set it to?

All my speakers are set to small and crossover at 80Hz, should the subwoofer also be set at 80Hz, or at its highest?

thanks!
 
hi guys,

I recently got a Cambridge Audio CXR200, and this is the first AVR which also has a crossover on the subwoofer settings, so what do I set it to?

All my speakers are set to small and crossover at 80Hz, should the subwoofer also be set at 80Hz, or at its highest?

thanks!

The sub's own filter (the one on its rear) should be set to its highest setting or an LFE option if one is available. The sub's own filter is surplus to requirements because the signal is being filtered by the receiver prior to it being output to the sub. You set it to its highest setting in order to prevent the sub's own filter from interferrring with the signal.

The points or points at which you set the crossovers associated with the speakers you've designated SMALL will depend upon the frequency handling capabilities of those speakers, but it is generally suggested to use a crossover of 80Hz in relation to larger speakers that have the ability to handle frequencies below this.
 
Ok, I've set the 5 speakers to 80Hz and the subwoofer to 120Hz.

However, when I listed to music in stereo mode, some of the bass just disappears if I choose 'Stereo+Sub' instead of just stereo direct.

any ideas?

thanks
 
I'm not familiar with CA AV receivers, but if like other brands then you'd not need to select a stereo + sub mode to have the sub engage with stereo content if speakers are designatedSMALL. All frequencies at and below the crossover setting would be directed away from the speakers designated SMALL and would be redirected to the subwoofer. If engaging a DIRECT mode then this ordnarilly bypasses bass management so the receiver's own speaker size configurations and crossover filters would not be applied. You ordinarilly only get output from just the front left and right speakers in association with stereo content if using a DIRECT mode.
 
@dante01 Thanks, I listen to music in DIRECT mode, which bypasses all bass management/DSP and treats the Front speakers as Large.

Most of my music is hi-res FLACs, but depending on the rip, sometimes the bass is a bit 'boomy'. I then prefer to have the sub do the bass as it's a bit more 'gentle'.

My NAD used to be really good at this, the Arcam not that good but still ok. But this CA is just eating the bass as soon as I add the sub in Stereo mode o_O
 
I've got the yamaha
RX-V479 amp and the
NS-SW200 sub
speakers set to small crossover at 100 hz was advised this from a guy on this forum does this sound about right ? using monitor audio radius 90's from fronts and read on stands and the monitor audio 200 for the center speaker .
 
Subs that go down below 20Hz are predominantly on the more expensive side and there's not really a budget option. The BK XXLS400 should give you output in the region of if not below 20Hz though and this sub although nearly £500 isn't that expensive considering what you get for the money.

XXLS400-DF
So I've now got an XXLS400-FF from a forum member, but still have the same amp and Tannoy EFX speakers. Until I upgrade those, I presume I should leave the amp crossover set to 150Hz?

Also, I'm not sure what to set the Phase to. Should I leave at 0? @SirTiger, what have you set your XXLS400 to?
 
So I've now got an XXLS400-FF from a forum member, but still have the same amp and Tannoy EFX speakers. Until I upgrade those, I presume I should leave the amp crossover set to 150Hz?

Also, I'm not sure what to set the Phase to. Should I leave at 0? @SirTiger, what have you set your XXLS400 to?
Yup, thats pretty much it :smashin:
 
So I've now got an XXLS400-FF from a forum member, but still have the same amp and Tannoy EFX speakers. Until I upgrade those, I presume I should leave the amp crossover set to 150Hz?

Also, I'm not sure what to set the Phase to. Should I leave at 0? @SirTiger, what have you set your XXLS400 to?
My phase is set to STUN!!

Actually it's at 0 but couldn't resist...
 
Question - I have SFX 5.1, they have crossover of 140hz. My AV receiver is a Pioneer VSX 1131, but I only have a choice of 100hz or 150hz. What should I choose?
 
Question - I have SFX 5.1, they have crossover of 140hz. My AV receiver is a Pioneer VSX 1131, but I only have a choice of 100hz or 150hz. What should I choose?


150Hz
 
They ae a budget package. You can do better and the receiver would probably benefit from you investing in something better. The obvious option for improvement would be the Q Acoustics 3000 which will cost you about £550 for the 5.1 cinema package. It wouldn't be unrealistic to spend up to £1,500 or more on a 5.1 speaker package for that particular level of AV receiver.
 
Dante01, I think I've asked this so many times but can't get a definitive answer, my AVR Anthem 310 allows you to set a sub EQ cut off filter so effectively a LPF, this is a separate adjustment to the LFE LPF in the receiver settings which is always at 120Hz. Now to get the most seamless blend my head tells me to crossover the 5 sats at say 80hz (they go lower) and also the sub cut off (LPF) at 80hz as then I will be getting a crossover similar to an internal speaker one? So the both signals dip down at the crossover and results in a flatter summed output at 80hz?? If I leave it how the anthem sets it (mains 80 and sub 140) then at crossover the sub signal is much fuller than the mains so potentially has the muddy effect?

Any advice on this much appreciated!
 
Dante01, I think I've asked this so many times but can't get a definitive answer, my AVR Anthem 310 allows you to set a sub EQ cut off filter so effectively a LPF, this is a separate adjustment to the LFE LPF in the receiver settings which is always at 120Hz. Now to get the most seamless blend my head tells me to crossover the 5 sats at say 80hz (they go lower) and also the sub cut off (LPF) at 80hz as then I will be getting a crossover similar to an internal speaker one? So the both signals dip down at the crossover and results in a flatter summed output at 80hz?? If I leave it how the anthem sets it (mains 80 and sub 140) then at crossover the sub signal is much fuller than the mains so potentially has the muddy effect?

Any advice on this much appreciated!
A sub eq cut off filter will only dictate at which point you wish to eq the subwoofers output response. The reason 80Hz crossovers are used is because when using a particular type of filter (a Linkwitz filter) at this setting you will end up with the best phase response between the subwoofer and speakers. The filter settings dictate how flat the response is at the digital level, but the eq applied is correcting the response in the real world after the room gets its grubby mits on it. A linkwitz filter of the correct type, when used on the sub and speakers, ensure a flat FR across that range, but again this is at the digital level inside your processor prior to the actual sound produced in room.

I would set your speakers and subwoofers at 80Hz and see how you get on. The subwoofer eq can obviously only really be applied to frequencies its actually producing, so if you have this set higher than 80Hz it will be applied to the entire range your using. If you set the LPF to 120 Hz, but the eq to 80 Hz for example, then your only applying eq to a limited pass band of the subwoofers actual operational range, the 80 to 120 range will not have eq applied to it.
 
Ah ok thanks for this, thats strange though as I tested setting the sub cut off at 40hz and it defiantly but it off i.e. left a big hole in between 40 and 80 so that suggested that it was doing a LPF? Also on the anthem ARC report sheet post measurements it calls it sub crossover? Ive tried asking this on the 310 thread but got no where, bit of a grey area.
 
Ah ok thanks for this, thats strange though as I tested setting the sub cut off at 40hz and it defiantly but it off i.e. left a big hole in between 40 and 80 so that suggested that it was doing a LPF? Also on the anthem ARC report sheet post measurements it calls it sub crossover? Ive tried asking this on the 310 thread but got no where, bit of a grey area.
If the sub eq was booting the output due to a dip, then disengaging the eq would show a dip, while having eq applied would not. It could look like a filter was applied in that the results appear to have the same effect, but actually not be that way. If youve set the HPF to 120 Hz, your subs crossover is set to max (or by-pass), no eq is applied, but your seeing a dip in the response right in the middle of the subwoofers operating range, that will be a room induced effect, not the result of a filter.

Its a while since I have used ARC so I cant remember off hand exactly what the post calibration report looks like, but it wouldnt be uncommon for graph labelling to be simplified, which can sometimes lead to confusion.
 
Thanks, no I don't have a dip though I have my sub in a position that gives a good response across the 40-140 range. So when an AVR sets the crossover of the sat does it then apply a LPF to the sub to match or does the sub always run to its fullest range, thus resulting in a muddy crossover?
 
Thanks, no I don't have a dip though I have my sub in a position that gives a good response across the 40-140 range. So when an AVR sets the crossover of the sat does it then apply a LPF to the sub to match or does the sub always run to its fullest range, thus resulting in a muddy crossover?
Where your AV Receiver has independent subwoofer and speaker crossovers, they run independently. When a speaker crossover is set, any frequencies below that point that would normally be played by the speakers are re-directed to the subwoofer. This is known as re-directed bass. LFE is a separate channel that is used on any soundtrack with x.1 channels. A subwoofer in a cinema system plays re-directed bass, and the discrete .1 LFE channel, as is dictated by the source material encoding. The LFE channel has an increased dynamic range capability that allows it to essentially exceed the performance of the standard speaker channels with respect to low frequencies, taking advantage of the extra capability that subwoofers generally have over the majority of speakers.
 
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If I find there is too much bass coming from the sub, should I adjust the gain on the sub or lower the DB in the AV receiver? Currently my SFX 5.1 sub is set to halfway and MAAC calibrated the sub to +9.0. I find this a little boomy, particularly for music or action movies?
 
If I find there is too much bass coming from the sub, should I adjust the gain on the sub or lower the DB in the AV receiver? Currently my SFX 5.1 sub is set to halfway and MAAC calibrated the sub to +9.0. I find this a little boomy, particularly for music or action movies?

Reduce the level via the receiver as opposed to altering the gain on the sub. If you do reduce the gain on the sub then you'd also then need to recalibrate the receiver. I'd maybe suggest you do this though because the sub level does seem inordinately high. Reduce the gain and run the calibration process again. Try to get the sub's level down closer to 0 post calibration. If still too much bass then adjust the sub level on the receiver to your own audible preferences. Most AV receivers also include a sub adjustment that allows you to make adjustments without altering the sub level setting within the speaker levels. I'd suggest using this as opposed to the sub level setting in order to adjust the sub's output.
 
Reduce the level via the receiver as opposed to altering the gain on the sub. If you do reduce the gain on the sub then you'd also then need to recalibrate the receiver. I'd maybe suggest you do this though because the sub level does seem inordinately high. Reduce the gain and run the calibration process again. Try to get the sub's level down closer to 0 post calibration. If still too much bass then adjust the sub level on the receiver to your own audible preferences. Most AV receivers also include a sub adjustment that allows you to make adjustments without altering the sub level setting within the speaker levels. I'd suggest using this as opposed to the sub level setting in order to adjust the sub's output.

Thanks I have just adjusted the subwoofer to +3.0 in the receiver. The volume on the sub was not adjusted and is set to halfway. I have also turned off loudness management and DRC, should I be using these? I tend to have volume around - 25.0
 
DRC (Dynamic Range Compression) need only be used if you are having issues hearing quieter aspects of the soundtrack at lower than reference master volume levels. It is up to you as to whether or not you utilse DRC. Most people don't enagage the basic standardised DRC, but may use more proprietary forms of DRC like Audyssey Dynamic Vole or Yamaha's Adaptive DRC. THe standardised variant is only applicable to discrete Dolby and DTS formats while the proprietary variants are applicable to all formats.

Do you have issues picking up on dialogue while listening at -25db? If so then you may want to investigate and try the various DRC options in order to make dialogue more discernible at this volume level?

If turning Loudness Control OFF then you'd be disabling all forms of DRC including the standardised DRC, proprietary variants and dialogue normalisation if you receiver has this?
 
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So to add to my recent acquisition of the BK XXLS400 sub, I've now picked up an Anthem MRX300 AVR as a temporary upgrade to my 11 year old unit. Still got the Tannoy EFX speakers for the moment, so a bit of a mismatch setup to say the least.

Anyway I ran ARC and it set the speakers to Small as expected, but set the crossover to 120Hz, whilst the Tannoy's only go down to 140Hz. I assume I'd be better off setting the crossover back to 150Hz?

This would still leave a 30Hz gap between the speakers and the BK. In reality, how much is this impacting things? And yes I know, I really need to crack on with the speaker upgrade!
 
So to add to my recent acquisition of the BK XXLS400 sub, I've now picked up an Anthem MRX300 AVR as a temporary upgrade to my 11 year old unit. Still got the Tannoy EFX speakers for the moment, so a bit of a mismatch setup to say the least.

Anyway I ran ARC and it set the speakers to Small as expected, but set the crossover to 120Hz, whilst the Tannoy's only go down to 140Hz. I assume I'd be better off setting the crossover back to 150Hz?

This would still leave a 30Hz gap between the speakers and the BK. In reality, how much is this impacting things? And yes I know, I really need to crack on with the speaker upgrade!


You should try to include a 10Hz overlap as opposed to a hole not covered. The 10Hz overlap should give better rolloff and transition. Set the crossover higher than the speakers' lowest ability as opposed to setting it lower or you'll end up with a hole that will not be covered by either the speakers or the sub.
 
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The first post in this thread is a WikiPost, and can be edited by anyone with the appropriate permissions.

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