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Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management

dante01

Distinguished Member
Awesome thanks, i’ll set the filter back at 120hz

I’ve tried the front as small at 80Hz and the system sounds very very light and lacking detail/grunt, any reason that would be happening?

These speakers do seem quite hard to drive from previous lower spec Amps.
I'd look at the sub's level to ensure it is balanced with the other speakers. All that is happening is that the frequencies at and below 80Hz are being directed away from the speakers designated SMALL and redirected to the sub for it to handle. This gives the AVR more headroom relative to the upper frequencies it is still amplifying. If you had the sub set to the LFE + MAIN setting then I'd have to suggest that what you were hearing wasn't desirable anyway and was more than likely more bass boom than bass impact? You should try locate the sub in a location where it portrays the bass at its best before you even start to calibrate the setup. Maybe locating the sub elsewhere would be an option?

You may find this article of interest:
Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips

and this:
AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple


Also note that redirecting the lower frequencies away from the speakers and redirecting those frequencies to the sub would in effect make your speakers easier to drive. The lower frequency drive units (woofers) within a speakers are the ones that require more effort on the part of the amplifier to drive.
 
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barwell1992

Active Member
I'd look at the sub's level to ensure it is balanced with the other speakers. All that is happening is that the frequencies at and below 80Hz are being directed away from the speakers designated SMALL and redirected to the sub for it to handle. This gives the AVR more headroom relative to the upper frequencies it is still amplifying. If you had the sub set to the LFE + MAIN setting then I'd have to suggest that what you were hearing wasn't desirable anyway and was more than likely more bass boom than bass impact? You should try locate the sub in a location where it portrays the bass at its best before you even start to calibrate the setup. Maybe locating the sub elsewhere would be an option?

You may find this article of interest:
Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips

and this:
AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple


Also note that redirecting the lower frequencies away from the speakers and redirecting those frequencies to the sub would in effect make your speakers easier to drive. The lower frequency drive units (woofers) within a speakers are the ones that require more effort on the part of the amplifier to drive.
Cool, i’ll try it out.

Sub placement is fixed, moving house soon with a second sub on the shopping list and larger room.

Sub is running 3db hot over the cal level.
 

barwell1992

Active Member
I'd look at the sub's level to ensure it is balanced with the other speakers. All that is happening is that the frequencies at and below 80Hz are being directed away from the speakers designated SMALL and redirected to the sub for it to handle. This gives the AVR more headroom relative to the upper frequencies it is still amplifying. If you had the sub set to the LFE + MAIN setting then I'd have to suggest that what you were hearing wasn't desirable anyway and was more than likely more bass boom than bass impact? You should try locate the sub in a location where it portrays the bass at its best before you even start to calibrate the setup. Maybe locating the sub elsewhere would be an option?

You may find this article of interest:
Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement Tips

and this:
AV Receiver Bass Management Basics – Settings Made Simple


Also note that redirecting the lower frequencies away from the speakers and redirecting those frequencies to the sub would in effect make your speakers easier to drive. The lower frequency drive units (woofers) within a speakers are the ones that require more effort on the part of the amplifier to drive.

One other question, for Stereo music with sub, I guess it needs to be set to LFE+MAIN (as there’s no LFE signal) also what would you do with the crossover? Set it right down to 40hz or slightly higher?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
One other question, for Stereo music with sub, I guess it needs to be set to LFE+MAIN (as there’s no LFE signal) also what would you do with the crossover? Set it right down to 40hz or slightly higher?
No. LFE + MAIN simply forces the MAIN left and right speakers to output the same low frequencies being sent to the sub to handle. THis setting is ordinarilly advised against because it gives rise to bass boom. You'd simply designate the left and right speakers as being SMALL if wishing to utilise the sub with audio such as stereo sources that lack a discrete LFE channel. THe stereo audio would sticll be subject to the AV receiver's bass management and frequencies at and below the crossovers for the speakers set as being SMALL would still be redirected to the sub for it to portray.

I'd maybe set the crossover slightly lower at about 60Hz for stereo sources, but I'd not set the sub to LFE + MAIN and I'd leave it set to just LFE. The receiver you have allows for a dedicated configuration of the bass management relative to stereo sources. All I'd do is set the crossover slighly lower for this.
 
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barwell1992

Active Member
No. LFE + MAIN simply forces the MAIN left and right speakers to output the same low frequencies being sent to the sub to handle. THis setting is ordinarilly advised against because it gives rise to bass boom. You'd simply designate the left and right speakers as being SMALL if wishing to utilise the sub with audio such as stereo sources that lack a discrete LFE channel. THe stereo audio would sticll be subject to the AV receiver's bass management and frequencies at and below the crossovers for the speakers set as being SMALL would still be redirected to the sub for it to portray.

I'd maybe set the crossover slightly lower at about 60Hz for stereo sources, but I'd not set to sub to LFE + MAIN and I'd leave it set to just LFE. The receiver you j=have allows for a dedicated configuration of the bass management relative to stereo sources. All I'd do is set the crossover slighly lower for this.
Thanks very much for the help, very much appreciated, the denon manual is a bit lack lustre in its descriptions for this sort of thing.

Yes found the 2 channel settings when I first got it, very useful.

Thanks again, I’ll have a proper play tomorrow.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
One other question, for Stereo music with sub, I guess it needs to be set to LFE+MAIN (as there’s no LFE signal) also what would you do with the crossover? Set it right down to 40hz or slightly higher?
Stereo music with the Denon is quite poor and bi-amping does nothing to improvement the performance of the front speakers. Indeed it only serves to reduce the power available to the remaining speakers. It would be far better to ditch bi-amping and use a power amp or integrated stereo amp that has the HT by-pass facility.

Although a stereo amp with HT by-pass is a relatively expensive option it's the best way to get quality stereo music performance within a home cinema system. The benefit of using power or stereo amps is that the remaining speakers connected to the Denon get a power boost.
 

barwell1992

Active Member
Stereo music with the Denon is quite poor and bi-amping does nothing to improvement the performance of the front speakers. Indeed it only serves to reduce the power available to the remaining speakers. It would be far better to ditch bi-amping and use a power amp or integrated stereo amp that has the HT by-pass facility.

Although a stereo amp with HT by-pass is a relatively expensive option it's the best way to get quality stereo music performance within a home cinema system. The benefit of using power or stereo amps is that the remaining speakers connected to the Denon get a power boost.
Hi,

Everything you describe is in my longterm plan, although the fronts won’t be Bi-amped I will be adding 4 Atmos height speakers in the new lounge to run a 5.2.4, setup, so load will be similar on the amp.

I’ve not seen any power issues with the fronts bi-amped but do understand it’s a bit pointless.

Not massively concerned about a sub out on the HT by-pass amp/power amp, however I want it as Integrated as possible to the denon, ideally turning on with the denon etc.

Would you advise against passing music to the denon then to the power amp? I’m streaming lossless using Air-play most of the time.

Any amp recommendations? I’m not really looking to spend much more than £500 if I’m honest.

Thanks
Dan
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Hi,

Everything you describe is in my longterm plan, although the fronts won’t be Bi-amped I will be adding 4 Atmos height speakers in the new lounge to run a 5.2.4, setup, so load will be similar on the amp.

I’ve not seen any power issues with the fronts bi-amped but do understand it’s a bit pointless.

Not massively concerned about a sub out on the HT by-pass amp/power amp, however I want it as Integrated as possible to the denon, ideally turning on with the denon etc.

Would you advise against passing music to the denon then to the power amp? I’m streaming lossless using Air-play most of the time.

Any amp recommendations? I’m not really looking to spend much more than £500 if I’m honest.

Thanks
Dan
It's very doubtful you will get a stereo amp with HT by pass for £500, unless you scour the classifieds, the Musical Fidelity M3i new being the closest. Good price actually in the link. I have no idea what air play is. I'm an analogue dinosaur.

-Musical Fidelity M3i Integrated Amplifier
 

Lee33

Active Member
During the auto calibration setup, am I right in assuming the base level should be set around a third of the way up (or ten to) on the subwoofer
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
During the auto calibration setup, am I right in assuming the base level should be set around a third of the way up (or ten to) on the subwoofer
The frequency dial should be set as high as it will go or set to a dedicated LFE setting option if the sub has one. The sub's own filter is effectively surplus to requirements and is set to its highest possible setting in order to prevent that filter from influencing the signal that is coming from the receiver. THe only filters that matter or those onboard the AV receiver and the sub plays no part in the filtering of the signal.

The sub's filter should be set to it maximum prior to the calibration and should not be altered after the calibration.

The volume or gain on the sub however should not be set to its maximum and you'd be advised to set this yo about one third and no higher than halfway prior to running the calibration. You'd again not alter this post calibration.
 
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marithere31

Novice Member
Hi,

If you're looking on solid reliable and durable high-end speakers, you should check out ArtisanAcoustics.Their speakers sound so good, and are reasonably priced for what you get. You'll thank me for this. Cheers!
 

shankly1985

Member
Hello Great thread for audio noobs like myself. I do have a question

My speakers are Tannoy SFX 5.1 quite low budget, the manual specs say this

Centre & Satellites
Nominal impedance - 6 Ohms
Frequency response (-6dB) - 140Hz - 78kHz
Crossover frequency - 4.5kHz (mid to high) 140Hz (to subwoofer)

Subwoofer
Frequency response (-6dB) - 45Hz - 140Hz

Does this mean I must set my speakers to 140hz, front, centre and rear. And then put the subwoofer on something between 45-140hz?

Thanks
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Hello Great thread for audio noobs like myself. I do have a question

My speakers are Tannoy SFX 5.1 quite low budget, the manual specs say this

Centre & Satellites
Nominal impedance - 6 Ohms
Frequency response (-6dB) - 140Hz - 78kHz
Crossover frequency - 4.5kHz (mid to high) 140Hz (to subwoofer)

Subwoofer
Frequency response (-6dB) - 45Hz - 140Hz

Does this mean I must set my speakers to 140hz, front, centre and rear. And then put the subwoofer on something between 45-140hz?

Thanks
Yeah, you've no other option other than to set the crossovers to 140Hz with that package. THe subwoofer must be set to its highest possible setting prior to running the receiver's auto calibration.
 

shankly1985

Member
Yeah, you've no other option other than to set the crossovers to 140Hz with that package. THe subwoofer must be set to its highest possible setting prior to running the receiver's auto calibration.
Thought so thanks. I will make it speakers are next on my buy list.
 

Morpheus2019

Novice Member
My 9 speakers have the following crossover frequencies:

Fronts; 290-2400Hz
Center; 500Hz, 2.8kHz
Rears; 3,5khz
Subwoofer; 19-270Hz

For my Atmos setup I have 4x Focal 100 ICW5 speakers in the ceiling. I can't find a crossover frequency for these. What should I set up in my amplifier?

Can someone please help me with the crossover settings for my speakers? Many thanks!
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
My 9 speakers have the following crossover frequencies:

Fronts; 290-2400Hz
Center; 500Hz, 2.8kHz
Rears; 3,5khz
No they don't. The ratings you've posted don't make sense so I assume you've incorrectly interpreted their rated abilities?

It may be a better idea to post the actual make and model of the speakers as opposed to what you think their frequency handling abilities are?

The rated frequency handling of the Focal 100 ICW5 speakers is 65Hz-23kHz
http://www.smart-audio.nl/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Focal-Custom-100-ICW5.pdf
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Rated frequency handling for:
Focal Aria 926 45Hz - 28kHz
Kef Q200c 50Hz - 40kHz
Focal Sib Evo 70Hz to 25kHz
Focal 100 ICW5 65Hz-23kHz

I'd suggest the usual designate all speakers SMALL and a crossover of 80Hz. You could set this a little higher for the ceiling speakers. I'd experiment in the range 80 to 120Hz for their crossover.
 

Morpheus2019

Novice Member
Rated frequency handling for:
Focal Aria 926 45Hz - 28kHz
Kef Q200c 50Hz - 40kHz
Focal Sib Evo 70Hz to 25kHz
Focal 100 ICW5 65Hz-23kHz

I'd suggest the usual designate all speakers SMALL and a crossover of 80Hz. You could set this a little higher for the ceiling speakers. I'd experiment in the range 80 to 120Hz for their crossover.
Thanks!! And the subwoofer? Should I set it up to LFE + Main and 120 Hz?
 

stumac62

Novice Member
Not sure if I'm putting this question in the right place.

Can someone confirm I'm understanding all I'm reading on here regarding frequencies and crossover settings please.

Low frequency (bass) is low number Hz
High frequency is high number Hz

Setting crossover for subwoofer at 120 Hz means frequencies below 120 Hz will be sent to the sub.

Apologies for such a basic question!

Thanks,
Stu.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Not sure if I'm putting this question in the right place.

Can someone confirm I'm understanding all I'm reading on here regarding frequencies and crossover settings please.

Low frequency (bass) is low number Hz
High frequency is high number Hz

Setting crossover for subwoofer at 120 Hz means frequencies below 120 Hz will be sent to the sub.

Apologies for such a basic question!

Thanks,
Stu.
Yes, the lower the frequency then the more bass like the associated sound.

The crossover setting(s) onboard an AV receiver redirects the frequencies at and below that setting away from the speakers designated small and out via the sub pre out to the active subwoofer if present.
 

stumac62

Novice Member
Thank you thats perfect.

My Tannoy speakers are 140Hz.

My Yamaha receiver crossover settings jump from 120 to 160Hz. Which do you recommend I use?

The auto setup (YPAO) sets it at 100Hz.

Is it just a case of listen and go with whichever sounds right to my (56 year old) ears?

Thanks,
Stu.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Thank you thats perfect.

My Tannoy speakers are 140Hz.

My Yamaha receiver crossover settings jump from 120 to 160Hz. Which do you recommend I use?

The auto setup (YPAO) sets it at 100Hz.

Is it just a case of listen and go with whichever sounds right to my (56 year old) ears?

Thanks,
Stu.
You'd be recommended to use the 160Hz option as opposed to the option of 120Hz. I'd still suggest this even though the receiver is measing a lower than 120Hz roll off for the associated speakers.
 

markb1980

Well-known Member
Just looking at the results after running Audyssey and I am not sure If something is incorrect with the front left and centre speakers as they seem to be the opposites on the graphs to the other speakers up until 100Hz? This maybe a stupid question so forgive me if it is.
6753DF1A-C792-43F7-8C3C-5E1863CAD002.jpeg
34CA6016-E8D7-4A53-AB08-A21B56AF3A65.jpeg
E51A4008-A65B-4C81-99F4-1846E5F83DAA.jpeg
 

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