Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management

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How do you know that the Denon setup is the one portraying the audio inaccurately and that the system you are comparing it to is the more accurate of the 2?

Also note that you are using 2 sets of completely different speakers so I'd not expect both setups to sound exactly the same.

For the purposes of ruling out Audyssey as being the cause of the discrepancies, turn it off entirely.and have a listen.
 
I've just done a YPAO on my Yamaha and it determined my fronts were large. If I now manually set them to small, isn't this going to through off all the frequency adjustments YPAO has implemented?

How do I set them to small, then run YPAO without them being changed back to large?
 
I've just done a YPAO on my Yamaha and it determined my fronts were large. If I now manually set them to small, isn't this going to through off all the frequency adjustments YPAO has implemented?

How do I set them to small, then run YPAO without them being changed back to large?

No, the EQ curves are corrected without any bass management and are therefore applicable to whatever range of frequencies the speakers can portray. Reducing the range being sent to those speakers doesn't effect the filters.

You cannot run any room EQ correction system with the bass management in effect and you always apply the bass management post calibration. The speaker sizes and crossovers have no effect upon the EQ corrections. The same is true of speaker distances and the speaker levels.
 
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Question regards Audyssey setting levels vs manually with my Denon 2300W...

When measuring manually I'm using minidsp UMIK-1 and REW with calibrated file. I set Denon MV to -10db and cycle through the levels adjusting to 65db.

From below it can be seen there is approx a 2db difference for most speakers except for the sub which is 5.5db of a difference.

Questions:
1) This expected/normal? Eg the difference of the "free" mic vs a calibrated mic
2) Is it ok to run Audy and then change the levels afterwards using REW & UMIK-1 without affecting Audys calibration?
3) 5.5db is a big difference for a sub. Leave at -8db and can boost it later or change it to -2.5db?

Audyssey
FL: -1.0
FR: -1.5
C: -3.0
SL: -3.0
SR: -5.5
TML: -8.0
TMR: -7.5
Sub: -8.0

Manually (REW & UMIK-1)
FL: +1.0
FR: +1.5
C: -1.0
SL: -0.5
SR: -3.5
TML: -5.5
TMR: -4.5
Sub: -2.5
 
Room EQ and EQ correction have nothing to do with you speaker levele, the distances or the receiver's bass management.

The "Free" mic is in fact calibrated in association with the target curves used by Audyssey onboard the receiver. This is why Audyssey suggest that you not use a third party mic if calibrating a receiver equipped with Audyssey and using that receiver's auto calibration.

The Audyssey mics are relatively accurated when it comes to SPL measurement and distances (delays).

I'd dispute either mic as being the most accurate when it comes to the measurement of low end frequencies . You'd need a pro grade mic costing a small fortune to get truly accurate low frequencies measurements.
 
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Hi, I have question regarding crossover settings for my Receiver, a Yamaha RX-V667.

The receiver does not have individual crossover settings per speaker, only one general setting. At first I thought it was a global setting which would apply to all speakers, but upon reading the manual, I found that the crossover seems to be applicable only for the FRONT speakers:

"You can set the low-frequency components of audio signals transmitted from the front speakers to the subwoofer by using “Bass Cross Over.”

Page 80, here: https://europe.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/321289/RX-V667_omrc_en3-1.pdf

In a sense, that is good news to me since my bookshelf front speakers have a specified frequency response down to 45 Hz, whereas my small center and surround satellites only go down to 120 Hz, and I would much rather have the crossover set to 80 (or even 60) Hz than 120, especially when listening to stereo music.

But then my question arise: how is crossover managed for surrounds and center, is nothing passed to the subwoofer, or everything <120 Hz? I can't seem to wrap my head around this :)
 
You'd need to set the crossover to a frequency that complies with the capabilities of your least capable speakers. It is a global setting and will apply to all speakers designated as SMALL. Speakers designated LARGE are not subject to the crossover filter.

I'd still suggest you try the setup with all your speakers designated small with a crossover setting of 120Hz though rather than setting the front speakers as being LARGE.

Don't set the crossover to 80Hz because this will leave a hole relative to the rated roll off of your rear speakers. Your rear speakers are the least capable and the ones that need to be set as being SMALL.

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Note that in the absence of a sub, you cannot set the front speakers as beiing SMALL and any other speakers set as SMALL would redirect the frequencies at and below the crossover setting to the front 2 speakers.
 
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You'd need to set the crossover to a frequency that complies with the capabilities of your least capable speakers. It is a global setting and will apply to all speakers designated as SMALL. Speakers designated LARGE are not subject to the crossover filter.

I'd still suggest you try the setup with all your speakers designated small with a crossover setting of 120Hz though rather than setting the front speakers as LARGE.

This is what I expected, but on the previous page in the user manual, only the FRONT speakers are mentioned in regards to the low frequency pass over to the subwoofer, so I was a bit confused.

Even though I have a really nice sub (a BK XLS200), using it for everything below 120 Hz sounds bad, for movies and even more so when playing stereo music in 2.1. As soon as I go up to 90 Hz I can clearly hear that the bass is coming in the direction of the sub, and it just feels “bloated”.

I guess the real solution to my problem is to either a) buy a receiver that is capable of configuring crossover per speaker, or b) replace my center and surrounds with something that matches my front speakers.

But in the meantime, I think I’ll let the front speakers play the center channel and keep the crossover at 80 Hz. Do you know what type of sounds that would typically be in the 80-120 Hz range for the surrounds? Would it be preferable to run a 2.1 configuration rather than leaving a roll off hole there?
 
It is as I've already stated. The crossover is applicable to all speakers set as being SMALL.

Your surrounds need to use the sub relative to anything below 120Hz so have to be set as being SMALL with a 120Hz crossover in order for the sub to deal with the frequencies below te surround speakers' capabilities. Because the crossover is global, you'd not be able to set it below 120Hz without it effecting the surrounds.

The only other thing I can suggest is that you set the fronys as LARGE and on;y designate the other speakers as being SMALL with the 120Hz associated crossover.

You'd be discarding or simply not partray anything below 120Hz from the surrounds unless you set them as SMALL and set the crossover to 120Hz.
 
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Yup, thanks for clarifying that, but setting the crossover to 120 Hz is not a viable option for me, as I really dislike how it sounds, especially when listening to music. In that case I rather disable the center and surrounds and run the system as 2.1. Or 4.1 and live with a hole in 80-120 Hz range for the surrounds.

But I will try to find some non-expensive 2nd hand surrounds that can go down to at least 80 Hz. I don’t want to spend too much money since this is not my main A/V system :/
 
As said, set the front speakers as being LARGE and just set the other speakers as SMALL. The 120Hz crossover would then not be applied to the front right and left speakers and would only be applied to the 2 surround speakers.

This isn't the ideal scenario, but should be fine until you get some surrounds able to handle 80Hz or less.
 
Yeah, that probably works for movies, but for music I would really like to pass the <80 Hz range to the subwoofer. The fronts are decent speakers but they’re pretty thin in the lowest register. But yes, it’s either that option or running the system as 2.1. :)
 
Hello,

I have dual Rel 212se, and use it for movies only. I am also using a Marantz SR6012.

Questions I have:
  • I only use LFE/.1 correct, not low level?
  • what should my dial settings be on the back of the subs? Do these settings get bypassed since I am using LFE? (except LFE volume)
    • Hi/Low setting - ?
    • LFE - I understand this setting
    • Crossover - ?
 
I am not an expert, but my understanding is that you should set your Sub's crossover at Max and volume at half. Let the receiver control the crossover. After running your calibration, you may need to go back and adjust the "LEVEL" of the sub to suit your taste and room conditions
 
I am not an expert, but my understanding is that you should set your Sub's crossover at Max and volume at half. Let the receiver control the crossover. After running your calibration, you may need to go back and adjust the "LEVEL" of the sub to suit your taste and room conditions

Thanks for the reply. So I should set the sub on the back to 120hz, as well as in the AV settings? Bass Management is at 120hz.
 
Hello,

I have dual Rel 212se, and use it for movies only. I am also using a Marantz SR6012.

Questions I have:
  • I only use LFE/.1 correct, not low level?
  • what should my dial settings be on the back of the subs? Do these settings get bypassed since I am using LFE? (except LFE volume)
    • Hi/Low setting - ?
    • LFE - I understand this setting
    • Crossover - ?


The LFE input on the sub is a low level input. If the sub has an LFE setting then yes, engage this.
Prior to calibration, set the following on the rear of your sub"

  • Set the volume/gain to about 10 o'clock and no more than moidway
  • Set the phase to 0°
  • Set the frequency/crossover dial to it max or to a LFE option if there is one


Run the receiver's calibration. It levels for the sub need adjustment then you'd need to redo the calibration. THe same is true if you alter any of the settings on the sub post calibration.

Note that the calibration erases any previous bass management configutations you may have entered manually prior to the calibration.

REgarding your current bass management, I'd advise you set all speakers as being SMALL as opposed to treating them as though they are full range. THe simpe truth of the matter is that they are not.
 
Setup is a Denon 2300 with Audyssey ran, sub gain at 12 o'clock, sub level -8db in speaker levels, dynamic eq on, dynamic volume off. For some movies/tv the bass is too high and so I wish to turn down the bass. Going to setup -> audio -> subwoofer level adjust -> change "off" to "on" and with level at 0db its actually louder! How is this so? Of course can turn level down a few db but puzzeled why turning on subwoofer level adjust at 0db is actually louder.
 
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THe receiver decreased the level during to calibration. the amnd the minus adjustment isn't increasing the signal being conveyed to the sub. If you;ve adjust the minus 8db setting to zero then you've increase d the single level being sent to the sub.

You shouldn't be using the main level settings to make personal adjustments. Use the source by source adjustment available to you via the option configurations or the bass adjustment option you;ll also get vioa the options.


I'd personally suggest you rurn OFF Dynamic EQ. I'd sufggest this to be more than likely the cause of upur issue as opposed to the levels. Maybe also set the subwoiofers own volume to about 10 o'clock and run the calibration again.
 
Thx for the response dante01. I havent changed the subwoofer level in main speaker levels from the -8 set by Audy.

So you recommend to adjust the source "channel level adjust" option, not the "subwoofer level adjust"?

That aside, why would turning on "subwoofer level adjust", which has default level of 0db, would actually increase the base volume? Should 0db mean not to adjust the speaker level which is set to -8. Likewise setting say -2 in "subwoofer level adjust" would equate to -10db?
 
AS you've said. The afjustments in the OPTION should be relative to the main settings and as such 0 would or should equate to nothing being changed. I've no idea as to why engaging this option would result in the sub portraying lower end frequencies louder? Basically, it shouldn't.
 
Hi, I have a small bass boost of 2db from 80hz to 20hz, I chose to start at 80 as that is my crossover setting, I have read that some start at 170 but as mid bass goes to 250 and the 170 to 80 would be played through the speakers is this a personal choice or is there some technical reason for starting at 170, thanks.
 
Confused by this crossover thing. IO have Dali Oberon 5 & vocal with MA Bronze FX for surrounds and minx min21 for front heights with a bk gemini 2 sub running froma new Denon 3600

Ive runaudessey and changed speakers to small, bass management to LFE & main - What should i set crossover too? its default to 120

oberon 5 - 39 - 26,000
Oberon Vokal - 47 - 26,000
FX surronds - 65Hz - 30kHz

Currently have front 60, centre 80, surround 80 & heights 120. If i change them, im not sure im hearing much difference is there any advice?
 
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