Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management

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Set-up Receiver VSX-AX4Sis, Speakers KEF, iQ9 front, iQ6c centre, iQ3 back,
KEF PSW3500 Woofer
Question with a normal stereo CD music, or TV broadcast and the receiver in stereo mode will the subwoofer Become active. Or do I have to switch to 5.1 mode
Hope this makes sense
Kind regards
Patrick :lease:
 
Set-up Receiver VSX-AX4Sis, Speakers KEF, iQ9 front, iQ6c centre, iQ3 back,
KEF PSW3500 Woofer
Question with a normal stereo CD music, or TV broadcast and the receiver in stereo mode will the subwoofer Become active. Or do I have to switch to 5.1 mode
Hope this makes sense
Kind regards
Patrick :lease:

It depends on the amplifier, but most have an option within the speaker settings to set the output as 'LFE+MAIN'. The setting may be worded differently depending on the make and model of the amp. When set to just 'LFE' then only the dedicated LFE channel is output to the sub, but 'LFE+MAIN' sends all frequencies below your crossover settings to the sub regardless of what mode you are in and whether or not there's an actual LFE channel present within the audio stream.
 
Just a quick question. Audyssey stress to set speakers and cross overs to 80 hz, as do most manufacturers and people like dolby and THX etc etc. Onkyo on the other hand almost always have their amps set speakers to full range if they are fairly capable. I have actually found that I prefer them set to full range, especially musically and films sound just as good as they ever did.

I'm not sure exactly how the Onkyo is implementing the cross over and LFE in their amps, but perhaps they have speakers et to full range because of the way they do certain things within the processing.

Ive found that set to large, the speakers feel much more weighty, but non of that LFE seems to disappear. Everything integrates audibly just as well to my ears, although leaving them large does result in an ever so slightly less flat graph response. Like I say though Ive found I actually prefer this less flat graph when listening to material. Having speakers set to large just seems to be a less controlled or clinical way of processing sound, but it does seem to have more feeling in it for me.

I'm wandering what anyones thoughts on this are, perhaps something to do with some kind of house curve, but surely Multi EQ XT is doing anything with regards to this.

I'm interested to see what response I get.
 
Just a quick question. Audyssey stress to set speakers and cross overs to 80 hz, as do most manufacturers and people like dolby and THX etc etc. Onkyo on the other hand almost always have their amps set speakers to full range if they are fairly capable. I have actually found that I prefer them set to full range, especially musically and films sound just as good as they ever did.

I'm not sure exactly how the Onkyo is implementing the cross over and LFE in their amps, but perhaps they have speakers et to full range because of the way they do certain things within the processing.

Ive found that set to large, the speakers feel much more weighty, but non of that LFE seems to disappear. Everything integrates audibly just as well to my ears, although leaving them large does result in an ever so slightly less flat graph response. Like I say though Ive found I actually prefer this less flat graph when listening to material. Having speakers set to large just seems to be a less controlled or clinical way of processing sound, but it does seem to have more feeling in it for me.

I'm wandering what anyones thoughts on this are, perhaps something to do with some kind of house curve, but surely Multi EQ XT is doing anything with regards to this.

I'm interested to see what response I get.

What exactly do you think you are gaining by setting your speakers to 'LARGE' ( full range)?

The setting means all frequencies are sent to the speakers, even if the speakers cannot handle or reproduce those frequencies. Full range is 20 - 20.000Hz and it is very doubtful that all your speakers are capable of reproducing this?

All you are doing is taxing your receiver by amplifying frequencies that will never get past the speaker's onboard crossover and then taxing the speaker when it has to filter out the unacceptable frequencies. There's also the fact that you've lost the unacceptable frequencies for good and these will neither be reproduced by either the sub or the speakers.
 
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The proper question would be, what exactly do Onkyo think you are gaining by setting speakers to large?

All I'm saying is that I figured I'd try leaving it like that just for personal experience, and I have to say it sounds better IMO. The crossover is still set at 80 hz, so I'm not sure how that whole process works on the Onkyo if speakers are set to full range, but the 80hz crossover is still in effect. FYI, I can happily run the amp at 0 with no audible stress on any of the speakers, in fact the Bose speakers sound better at higher volumes, but then they are pro speakers rather than domestic ones. All the low end LFE content is still there and the sub still produces everything upto 80 hz as it should (Ive used REW to confirm this). The Bose are only rated down to 60 hz but do give usable output at 60 hz.

I'm wandering really if Onkyo are just doing things a little different somehow by having the amp set things this way. I know its Onkyo doing it and not Audyssey because I e-mailed Audyssey to find out. It just seems to me that even set at full range the usual 80 cross over still works as its supposed to, but perhaps with a different slope similar to how a high level connection in a sub works.

All I know is that even with speakers set to large by the Onkyo, the sub is still working in the same range as it would if they were set to 80hz, but the speakers dont cut out as early, hence my theory above. It does add an ever so slight peak in the response, but like I say I actually think this sounds better, especially musically, which would tie in beautifully with the high level connection preference for music and possibly the different crossover slope.
 
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ok, i was feeling ok about my setup till i read this thread.

Would someone please give these settings a once over, and is there anything i would gain from changing the x-over frequencies.

here goes,

Onkyo 605 Amp,

Mission 773 floorstanders : recommended 25-100 Watt (bi-wired) 50-20,000 hertz.
Mission 77ds sorrounds : recommended 20-75 Watt, 80-20,000 hertz
Mission 77c centre : recommended 25-100 Watt, 65-20-000 hertz
generic subwoofer : only 40W with variable bass cross over point, apparently.

Now audysey automatically gave the following setup:

Subwoofer : yes
Front : Full band
Centre: full band
Surround : 80Hz
lpf to lfe : 100 HZ
Double bass : On

i was thinking of changing to the following settings:

Subwoofer : yes
Front : 100Hz
Centre: 100Hz
Surround: 80Hz
Lpf to LFE : Havent got a clue!
Double bass : On (i'm hoping this will accomodate for crappy subwoofer till i get a better one)


Thanks to any advice,
 
I have moved a number of posts about Audessy and if it affects crossover or not to here.
 
dante01, you might consider this is a big ask as I don't have frequency info here with me at work.

I have a Sony Strada 2400
with Eltax Floorstanders (for front left & right) and a 5.1 package (see below) completing the 7.1 soundstage.

Are there any settings you'd recommend?

Thanks in advance
 
dante01, you might consider this is a big ask as I don't have frequency info here with me at work.

I have a Sony Strada 2400
with Eltax Floorstanders (for front left & right) and a 5.1 package (see below) completing the 7.1 soundstage.

Are there any settings you'd recommend?

Thanks in advance

I'd recommend you wait until you get home and look on the back of your speakers or do as I'd have to do for you and try find the frequency range of the speakers online ;)
 
I'd recommend you wait until you get home and look on the back of your speakers or do as I'd have to do for you and try find the frequency range of the speakers online ;)

Apparently, the Eltax floorstanders are 45-20,000Hz and the Tannoy (centre and sats) are 140Hz - 78KHz

The Tannoy sub goes from 45Hz - 140Hz

Waddya reckon fella?
 
Apparently, the Eltax floorstanders are 45-20,000Hz and the Tannoy (centre and sats) are 140Hz - 78KHz

The Tannoy sub goes from 45Hz - 140Hz

Waddya reckon fella?

You'll have no option but to set the centre and sats to 140Hz. The main front pair can be set lower, set them at 80Hz to start with and see how that goes. Adjust the setting for the front pair if you want or until you get a satisfactory result.
 
ok, i was feeling ok about my setup till i read this thread.

Would someone please give these settings a once over, and is there anything i would gain from changing the x-over frequencies.

here goes,

Onkyo 605 Amp,

Mission 773 floorstanders : recommended 25-100 Watt (bi-wired) 50-20,000 hertz.
Mission 77ds sorrounds : recommended 20-75 Watt, 80-20,000 hertz
Mission 77c centre : recommended 25-100 Watt, 65-20-000 hertz
generic subwoofer : only 40W with variable bass cross over point, apparently.

Now audysey automatically gave the following setup:

Subwoofer : yes
Front : Full band
Centre: full band
Surround : 80Hz
lpf to lfe : 100 HZ
Double bass : On

i was thinking of changing to the following settings:

Subwoofer : yes
Front : 100Hz
Centre: 100Hz
Surround: 80Hz
Lpf to LFE : Havent got a clue!
Double bass : On (i'm hoping this will accomodate for crappy subwoofer till i get a better one)


Thanks to any advice,

By all means try those settings and see what you think

However, with such a (relatively) small underpowered sub (and this applies to Steve69bez as well) I would not want to be diverting the bass away from the more capable floorstanders to the subwoofer.

In your case(s) I think the Audyssey has correctly determined that the front speakers should be set to large, as the subwoofer is not that capable (by the specs you have both indicated)

It is worth noting that Audyssey does not set "Double Bass" or "LPF of LFE". These are set to user preference. Of the latter, it is recommended to set the LPF to 120Hz as the LFE track extends into this frequency range occasionally.
 
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Hi Gents

i would like to ask you a question.
what do you thing about to do crossover and bi-amping together? does it make any sens? is it point to do that with this setup?

I just wonder if HK 355 and b&w 685 will sound good together?
i just bought HK and its on the way :rolleyes:


and one more thing...
would you please help me with frequencies for my speakers.
as i see you are the brain here. :lease:

spec for my front speakers:

Description 2-way vented-box system
Drive units 1x ø25mm (1 in) aluminium dome high-frequency
1x ø165mm (6.5 in) woven Kevlar® cone bass / midrange

Frequency range -6dB at 42Hz and 50kHz
Frequency response 49Hz - 22kHz ±3dB on reference axis

Sensitivity 88dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Harmonic distortion 2nd and 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<1% 100Hz - 22kHz
<0.5% 150Hz - 20kHz
Nominal impedance 8&#8486; (minimum 3.7&#8486;)
Crossover frequency 4kHz
Crossover filters 1st Order &#8211; tweeter
1st Order &#8211; bass/midrange

for center speaker:
freq 80 Hz to 25 kHz
sensetivity 86 dB/2.83V/m

for surround:
freq 100 Hz to 25 kHz

for Sub:
freq 30 Hz to 200 Hz

Surround and center speakers are just simple satellites speakers from yamaha NS-P110 5.1
i'm not expecting too much from them. its just a matter of time when i gonna change them. but it would be nice to set them up.

many thanks
chris
 
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Hi Gents

i would like to ask you a question.
what do you thing about to do crossover and bi-amping together? does it make any sens? is it point to do that with this setup?

I just wonder if HK 355 and b&w 685 will sound good together?
i just bought HK and its on the way :rolleyes:


and one more thing...
would you please help me with frequencies for my speakers.
as i see you are the brain here. :lease:

spec for my front speakers:

Description 2-way vented-box system
Drive units 1x ø25mm (1 in) aluminium dome high-frequency
1x ø165mm (6.5 in) woven Kevlar® cone bass / midrange

Frequency range -6dB at 42Hz and 50kHz
Frequency response 49Hz - 22kHz ±3dB on reference axis

Sensitivity 88dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Harmonic distortion 2nd and 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<1% 100Hz - 22kHz
<0.5% 150Hz - 20kHz
Nominal impedance 8&#937; (minimum 3.7&#937;)
Crossover frequency 4kHz
Crossover filters 1st Order &#8211; tweeter
1st Order &#8211; bass/midrange

for center speaker:
freq 80 Hz to 25 kHz
sensetivity 86 dB/2.83V/m

for surround:
freq 100 Hz to 25 kHz

for Sub:
freq 30 Hz to 200 Hz

Surround and center speakers are just simple satellites speakers from yamaha NS-P110 5.1
i'm not expecting too much from them. its just a matter of time when i gonna change them. but it would be nice to set them up.

many thanks
chris


Bi-amping does not negate the benefits of sending the lower frequencies to a subwoofer and doing so doesn't enable you the split the frequencies between the high and low drive units. The speaker's internal crossover is still active and that speaker will still only reproduce those frequencies it is rated for.


I'd start with a crossover of 80Hz for the front three speakers and 100Hz for the rear surround channels.
 
dante01

cheers for that mate :smashin:

do you think that i'm losing with the old yamaha 5.1 speakers?
i would like to setup 7.1 for the tv and movies and playing ps3.
for music i gonna use 2.1 (B&W + yamaha sub)

if i want to change my yamaha sub on to B&W asw608 or asw610, which would be good enough?
 
dante01

cheers for that mate :smashin:

do you think that i'm losing with the old yamaha 5.1 speakers?
i would like to setup 7.1 for the tv and movies and playing ps3.
for music i gonna use 2.1 (B&W + yamaha sub)

if i want to change my yamaha sub on to B&W asw608 or asw610, which would be good enough?

Subwoofers do not need to be matched to existing speakers so I'd probably look at subs by other manufacturers. I'd also probably leave the sub until last and concentrate on the centre and surround speakers first or at least try to get a matching centre speaker for the front pair.
 
i was thinking to buy b&w cm7 and set them up as a front and connect 685's as a surround.
but i don't know if HK 355 will give enough power to run cm7.
if not as far as i am concerned i can use hk 355 as a pre out and connect it to the maybe some rotel multichannel amp. maybe rotel rmb-1565 or 1572.

so there is a question:
if i have a cm7's as a fornt and 685's as a surround is crossover gonna change?

spec for cm7:

Drive units1x ø25mm (1 in) aluminium dome high-frequency
1x ø130mm (5 in) woven Kevlar® cone FST midrange
1x ø165mm (6.5 in) paper/Kevlar® cone bass
Frequency range-6dB at 34Hz and 50kHz
Frequency response62Hz - 22kHz ±3dB on reference axis
Sensitivity88dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Harmonic distortion2nd and 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<1% 100Hz - 22kHz
<0.5% 150Hz - 20kHz
Nominal impedance8&#8486; (minimum 3.0&#8486;)
Crossover frequencies350Hz, 4kHz
Bass unit 3rd order low pass
Midrange 2nd-order high-pass, 1st order low-pass
Tweeter 1st-order high-passif so, would you tell how?

many thanks for your help
chris
 
if i have a cm7's as a fornt and 685's as a surround is crossover gonna change?


I'd still try to keep the crossovers around the 80Hz mark, maybe slightly lower for the front pair, but not so low as to make those speakers dominate the room.
 
I'd still try to keep the crossovers around the 80Hz mark, maybe slightly lower for the front pair, but not so low as to make those speakers dominate the room.


dante01

one more question:
if i have to set up speakers as a large or small what i should choose?
i know that it does affect in some ways.

many thanks
chris
 
dante01

one more question:
if i have to set up speakers as a large or small what i should choose?
i know that it does affect in some ways.

many thanks
chris


If you've an active sub attached then use small settings for all the speakers. The reasons why are explained in the first post of this thread.
 
Hey Dante,

You gave me some very useful and accurate advice on another thread, and have read most of this one also, so thanks for that.

Could you possible give me some guidance on the settings for my kit as follows;

I have an Arcam Solo Movie 5.1 connected a complete set of Kef 3005Se that comprise of;

4 x HTS3001SE Satellite Speakers, 1 x HTC3001SE Centre Speaker, 1 x HTB2SE Subwoofer

and

50W RMS into 8ohms continuous power output from the power amp

Find out more about the FMJ and Solo product ranges


I am aware that I may have limited options via the Arcam as far as settings/x-over go but am massively under-impressed by the lack of bass when watching Blus or Sky HD. The sub is pretty much invisible and I've tried relocating it to various positions in the room

Any advice would be great (even if its you telling me that I have completely mismatched equipment and need to rip it out and start again :suicide:)

Thanks in advance


Regards

Chris
 
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