DAC Info that may be helpful

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Hello,

new to this forum and don't have privileges to post a brand new thread. I'm no technical audiophile but it is my curiosity how builtin DACs on Micro Systems work. I own a Denon D-39 with Dali Zensor 1 speakers and I know it has an internal DAC (192 kHz/32-bit D/A). I have a general understanding of what a DAC is and what it does but I would like a more in depth explanation on how it works on a Mini System and what type of DAC I have. Also, when it comes to MP3s and Cd playback, does it actually pump-up/upscale the lossy file and 16 bits/44khz Cd tracks to high-resolution 192 kHz/32-bit sound like?
 
Hello,

new to this forum and don't have privileges to post a brand new thread. I'm no technical audiophile but it is my curiosity how builtin DACs on Micro Systems work. I own a Denon D-39 with Dali Zensor 1 speakers and I know it has an internal DAC (192 kHz/32-bit D/A). I have a general understanding of what a DAC is and what it does but I would like a more in depth explanation on how it works on a Mini System and what type of DAC I have. Also, when it comes to MP3s and Cd playback, does it actually pump-up/upscale the lossy file and 16 bits/44khz Cd tracks to high-resolution 192 kHz/32-bit sound like?
Some information which may be helpful.

First off, a DAC cannot directly play MP3. What happens is that some form of processor (a computer basically but unrelated to any computer you may have on your desk) first has to convert the MP3 file to a stream of data the DAC can receive. In doing this the MP3 is converted back to a CD, however any sound "lost" in creating the MP3 cannot be recovered so you still have a lower quality file than a CD of the same music.

As for the 32bit 192kHz description of the DAC, this usually signifies that the data that comes off the CD is up sampled to 32 bit 192kHz prior to conversion to an analogue signal (which is then amplifier and passed to the speakers). This may be done by a separate circuit, or may simply be part of the DAC chip used by Denon.

Hope this helps
Eloise
 
Interesting and astonishingly thorough review of three DAC's from dirt cheap to many folk's reference, the Benchmark DAC2.
Different transmission standards exist for different reasons. AES/EBU is the same as SPDIF digitally but the cables are designed for professional/studio situations involving potentially long runs. The AES/EBU connections are either 110ohm STP with XLR connectors for runs up to 100m (who's gonna do that at home?) or 75ohm co-ax with BNC up to 1000m (again, pointless at home). Not to mention not much domestic equipment includes digital XLR or BNC connectors. SPDIF co-ax on RCA connectors works at a slightly lower voltage (non-issue) and slightly different frame header protocols, but that's it. They both carry the same data reliably from A to B. The differences are engineering differences, and exist for practical reasons.
 
Interesting and astonishingly thorough review of three DAC's from dirt cheap to many folk's reference, the Benchmark DAC2.
Different transmission standards exist for different reasons. AES/EBU is the same as SPDIF digitally but the cables are designed for professional/studio situations involving potentially long runs. The AES/EBU connections are either 110ohm STP with XLR connectors for runs up to 100m (who's gonna do that at home?) or 75ohm co-ax with BNC up to 1000m (again, pointless at home). Not to mention not much domestic equipment includes digital XLR or BNC connectors. SPDIF co-ax on RCA connectors works at a slightly lower voltage (non-issue) and slightly different frame header protocols, but that's it. They both carry the same data reliably from A to B. The differences are engineering differences, and exist for practical reasons.
Have you got a link to the review of the three DACs?

Would be interested in reading it.
 
Interesting and astonishingly thorough review of three DAC's from dirt cheap to many folk's reference, the Benchmark DAC2.
Different transmission standards exist for different reasons. AES/EBU is the same as SPDIF digitally but the cables are designed for professional/studio situations involving potentially long runs. The AES/EBU connections are either 110ohm STP with XLR connectors for runs up to 100m (who's gonna do that at home?) or 75ohm co-ax with BNC up to 1000m (again, pointless at home). Not to mention not much domestic equipment includes digital XLR or BNC connectors. SPDIF co-ax on RCA connectors works at a slightly lower voltage (non-issue) and slightly different frame header protocols, but that's it. They both carry the same data reliably from A to B. The differences are engineering differences, and exist for practical reasons.
A couple of comments and slight corrections...

AES/EBU is the old name for what should now be referred to as AES3 - this can run over either XLR or can be converted to run over Cat5. The latter (Cat5) is uncommon and can run up to 400m with the former running up to 100m. AES3id is an unbalanced version, typically utilising BNC connectors but the important definition is that it uses Co-ax cable.

SPDIF is of course the domestic version. This also runs over Co-ax cabling and can be connected with either BNC or standard RCA - BNC being considered better in many circles as that is a 75ohm connection.

One thing that is important to remember is that AES3 is not necessarily designed as an improvement over SPDIF; but uses XLR mainly because studios will have hundreds of XLR cables laying around so its convenient. 100m is pointless in most situations, but if you have a computer connected to a DAC via a USB converter, it may be preferable to go more than a couple of meters to move the computer away from the DAC where AES3 could offer an advantage in a domestic environment.
 
Some information which may be helpful.

First off, a DAC cannot directly play MP3. What happens is that some form of processor (a computer basically but unrelated to any computer you may have on your desk) first has to convert the MP3 file to a stream of data the DAC can receive. In doing this the MP3 is converted back to a CD, however any sound "lost" in creating the MP3 cannot be recovered so you still have a lower quality file than a CD of the same music.

As for the 32bit 192kHz description of the DAC, this usually signifies that the data that comes off the CD is up sampled to 32 bit 192kHz prior to conversion to an analogue signal (which is then amplifier and passed to the speakers). This may be done by a separate circuit, or may simply be part of the DAC chip used by Denon.

Hope this helps
Eloise

Thanks for the insight! So, the DAC only up samples (to 192khz/32bit) tracks from a redbook disc and not the mp3 (@320kbps) from ipod/usb key? is that correct?

I also need a bit of advice/second opinion. I have been thinking of upgrading my system in order to play HD files. I have two options:

1) Just get a usb dac like dragonfly v1.2

2) Sell the DM39 to help the purchase of a Denon CEOL n9 or Marrantz mcr 610

So the question is, as far High res. music is concerned, which would sound better, the DM39 (connected to a laptop via external USB DAC to play my HD flac files) or a system like Marrantz/Ceol N9 (their own internal DAC and circuitry)? These two however support up to 192khz/24 bits while the dragonfly no more than 96khz/24 bit.

What do you advise?



What do you think?
 
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I have recently converted all my CDs to lossless audio files and intend to play them through an AppleTV or Raspberry Pi 3 or some other small device. Would the addition of a DAC between the device and the AV receiver (see my signature please) make an audible difference? I'm thinking of a DacMagic100 perhaps?
 
It depends... If you're using any processing (room correction, bass management, etc) on your receiver, then my opinion is that you may as well just go digital into the receiver as the first thing which happens to any analogue signal is conversion to digital.
 
It depends... If you're using any processing (room correction, bass management, etc) on your receiver, then my opinion is that you may as well just go digital into the receiver as the first thing which happens to any analogue signal is conversion to digital.

The receiver (Anthem) does use the ARC room correction software.
 
The receiver (Anthem) does use the ARC room correction software.
Yes the receiver uses it, but do YOU use it when listening to 2 channel music or would you be using a stereo direct / bypass type mode (not sure what Anthem calls it) where an analogue signal is passed through unprocessed.
 
I am looking for reliable and affordable DAC like
Epiphany E-DAC, Beetle DAc or Dragonfly and find this on Kickstarter.
The campaign is live and looks that will be succesfully funded.

Space - ESS Sabre Audiophile Class DAC

What is your opinion? I think to get one to try it...
 
Which Anthem version do you own? If its from the original MRX Series then you may have more issues with a DAC than most out there. Anthem AV Receivers are simply fantastic although they are fundamentally locked into the room eq thus it will alter the sound from the DAC even when using the analogue input. I know the later models managed to resolve this, however I seem to remember the 300, 500 and 700 all being affected with this.

I don't think this is the case if you do not set the ARC up on the amp.

Regards, Shane.
 
Just added the Chord 2Qute Dac to my system. It gives me greater clarity in vocals and a tighter sound stage. Themusic is also more dynamic. Really pleased with the addition. However at £995 it is expensive.
 
Recently added the Roksan K3 dac, and leaving aside the frankly awful instructions for use with a pc usb I am very pleased.

Bass detail has improved and got deeper, with the harness that I was getting before on the top end removed. Gives a sweat/laid back sound now to music
 
As a matter of interest do members switch their Dacs off at the mains or leave them powered on at all times. Having a Naim system I am of the opinion it can be left on.
 
I turn my roksan off at night, but then it has a power switch on the underside. I did look at the naim and noticed it doesn't have a power switch, so it must clearly be designed to stay on all the time
 
Naim do have on/off at the back of their units. However its widely accepted in the world of Naim that its best to leave the units switched on at all times.

Of course in inclement weather or your off on holiday for weeks at an end, then switch off.
 
You may find this site of interest if you want to know more about DAC’s etc.

Search | Sound On Sound

One thing to consider in all this is keeping the signal path as simple and short as possible. Obviously the less you do to the signal the better and this is one reason digital amplifiers are interesting, especially if you are using a digital source.

The Lyngdorf TDAi2170 amplifier is one that Phil Hinton will be reviewing in the new year. This essentially is a DAC with a volume control on it and so if using this amp will give better results than an add on DAC as it will remove one layer of processing from the signal path.

This also has perhaps the best room correction available built in which I think typically gives the biggest upgrade to a good speaker system. You can see some of the feedback on it here.

Awards and Review

I have loaner units if its of interest…

I believe Audiovisual OnLine have this product on dem and may have some feedback about it and how it compares to a traditional amp with add on DAC.
 
Let's talk about DAC's baby...

Firstly I hope I have posted this question in the correct thread as like myself its a bit of an odd one.

I have just finalized completing the archiving of my digital files. Currently being between meaningful employment it has had me preoccupied the best part of six months. Having used Ubuntu for years I recently switched my OS from Mint to Ubuntu Studio.

Already Ubuntu Studio has lets simply say freshened things up musically rather nicely thanks very much. My next tactic being to employ a DAC with bluetooth and XLR output so as to go with dual sub's & active monitors.

Have any of you by any chance taken this route? Anybody using Ubuntu Studio with external DAC to active monitors. Any recommendations regarding brands?

I am happy to part with around £600 my searching only shows me the Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus, is there anything else to consider.

Regards M
 
Let's talk about DAC's baby...

Firstly I hope I have posted this question in the correct thread as like myself its a bit of an odd one.

I have just finalized completing the archiving of my digital files. Currently being between meaningful employment it has had me preoccupied the best part of six months. Having used Ubuntu for years I recently switched my OS from Mint to Ubuntu Studio.

Already Ubuntu Studio has lets simply say freshened things up musically rather nicely thanks very much. My next tactic being to employ a DAC with bluetooth and XLR output so as to go with dual sub's & active monitors.

Have any of you by any chance taken this route? Anybody using Ubuntu Studio with external DAC to active monitors. Any recommendations regarding brands?

I am happy to part with around £600 my searching only shows me the Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus, is there anything else to consider.

Regards M
Not sure about your software questions, but if 600 is your budget you should probably look at the m-dac. Another option with xlr in UK may be the Pioneer u05, another member here says the Emotiva stealth DAC is great, you buy it direct from Emotiva website, might fall in your budget, not sure exactly price when shipping and customs fees added
 
Muljao,

I appreciate your suggestions: M-Dac, Pioneer u05 & Emotiva Stealth. I also noticed the Emotiva after posting and it at least looks the business. Will have a fish around & thanks again but 'Software' is not an issue as yet.

In light of today's tragic news regarding the global cyber-attacks especially our own NHS I can only advise and advocate that all persons of at least limited intelligence 'like myself' completely ditch Mircosoft products, IMO of course from a security standpoint.
 
There are a number of products available to you really.

Pro-Ject DAC Box E

Audioengine D1 Premium

Pro-Ject Box-Design DAC Box S FL

There are many others out there too, But these are just a few from mainstream manufacturers. Hope that helps!

Regards, Shane
 
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