Denon AVR-X3400H Owners Thread

Thank you for the reply gibbsy, I get it now...I am wondering if I can do the following to prevent moving around ceiling speakers lol.

Use 2x MartinLogan ElectroMotion IC (Ea.) 6.5-inch In-Ceiling Loudspeaker for the FL/FR

Use 2x MartinLogan ElectroMotion IC (Ea.) 6.5-inch In-Ceiling Loudspeaker for TOP Middle L/R

Then move 2x Motion LX16 to the rear for surround

Would this be a mistake?
Huge mistake. The Atmos domain must have a good vertical separation from the base 5.1 The directions posted above should be adhered to as much as possible.
 
I'm about to upgrade from a 5.1 to a 5.1.2 set up and have a few questions...

In the 3400 manual the only time Atmos is mentioned is when using up firing speakers. At all other times it is referred to simply as '7.1' and NEVER '5.1.2'.

So is using front heights or front/middle ceiling a true Atmos set up or simply 7.1?

I have tried the front upfiring set up using 'Atmos enabled' cheap Onkyo speakers and heard no difference at all.

My room is a fairly large 17x12ft rectangular room and low ceiling.

I am considering buying Cambridge Audio Minx Mini and either try them as front heights or high on the side walls about 3ft in front of MLP as 'top fronts'?

Has anyone tried any of the above and if so, ehat gave the better sound?
I have temporarily rigged up the Onkyos on the side walls as a test and it was a better and more noticeable effect than having them as front upfiring, even though that is what they were designed for.

I am using Mass Audio 10s (2012) for my main 5.1 set up.
 
I'm about to upgrade from a 5.1 to a 5.1.2 set up and have a few questions...

In the 3400 manual the only time Atmos is mentioned is when using up firing speakers. At all other times it is referred to simply as '7.1' and NEVER '5.1.2'.

So is using front heights or front/middle ceiling a true Atmos set up or simply 7.1?

I have tried the front upfiring set up using 'Atmos enabled' cheap Onkyo speakers and heard no difference at all.

My room is a fairly large 17x12ft rectangular room and low ceiling.

I am considering buying Cambridge Audio Minx Mini and either try them as front heights or high on the side walls about 3ft in front of MLP as 'top fronts'?

Has anyone tried any of the above and if so, ehat gave the better sound?
I have temporarily rigged up the Onkyos on the side walls as a test and it was a better and more noticeable effect than having them as front upfiring, even though that is what they were designed for.

I am using Mass Audio 10s (2012) for my main 5.1 set up.

Denon don't use the terminology within their manual, but adding 2 heights, ceiling speakers or upfirers would result in you having a 5.1.2 setup.

Many suggest that the Onkyo upfirers are less than desirable (crap). Whether better upfirers would yield an improvement is an unknown?

Placing heights on your front wall would be fine, but I'd not be inclined to locate them on side walls. Heighr speakers are not intended to be located on any wall apart from the front wall.

I've a pair of Min12 speakers as heights on my front wall. While this does expand upon the soundstage and add more presence, it wouldn't be as effective when it comes to overhead effects as having ceiling speakers if you can accommodate them?
 
Denon don't use the terminology within their manual, but adding 2 heights, ceiling speakers or upfirers would result in you having a 5.1.2 setup.

Many suggest that the Onkyo upfirers are less than desirable (crap). Whether better upfirers would yield an improvement is an unknown?

Placing heights on your front wall would be fine, but I'd not be inclined to locate them on side walls. Heighr speakers are not intended to be located on any wall apart from the front wall.

I've a pair of Min12 speakers as heights on my front wall. While this does expand upon the soundstage and add more presence, it wouldn't be as effective when it comes to overhead effects as having ceiling speakers if you can accommodate them?

I was going to put the side speakers high on the side walls almost at ceiling level and set these to 'top fronts' as opposed to front heights on the front wall. Basically substituting them as ceiling overheads. Would this not be as affective? Have you tried this layout?
 
I was going to put the side speakers high on the side walls almost at ceiling level and set these to 'top fronts' as opposed to front heights on the front wall. Basically substituting them as ceiling overheads. Would this not be as affective? Have you tried this layout?

Why, what would you have gained? The location would neither be one thing or the other and you'd not perceive an improvement by locating them there. You should locate the speakers in the mid location overhead if that is what you are affter. Locating them towards the front of the room up on side walls isn't going to give you the effect of either ceiling or front height speakers. It you were to try compromise and try emulate ceiling speaker via a pair of wall mounted speakers then you'd be advised to try locate them relative to the location of top middle ceiling speakers. This would still be a compromise though.
 
So I've got my slim PS3 connected to the receiver. It's playing a 5.1 DTS HD MA movie but all I see is Multi-in DDS on the screen if I toggle through the Movie button on the remote. If I run the Auto feature, all I see is Multi-in (with my surround back not active). What am I doing wrong - shouldn't I be seeing DTS HD MA on the front?

I'm running Multi EQ XT32.
 
So I've got my slim PS3 connected to the receiver. It's playing a 5.1 DTS HD MA movie but all I see is Multi-in DDS on the screen if I toggle through the Movie button on the remote. If I run the Auto feature, all I see is Multi-in (with my surround back not active). What am I doing wrong - shouldn't I be seeing DTS HD MA on the front?

I'm running Multi EQ XT32.

What you are getting suggests that you are not bitstreaming the DTS-HD MA audio and that you are outputting it as multichannel PCM. You are then applying Dolby Surround Upmixing to it which would create pseudo Atmos 3D immersive like effects via any additional height or ceiling speakers that you may have present.

You need tp configure the PS3 so that it bitstreams audio sourced via Blu-ray disc you are using it to play:

Enabling Dolby bitstream pass-through on Playstation | Dolby Developer
 
Have a question - I'm not able to use normal front speakers and my front speakers are actually ceiling mounted and point downwards (see picture). I noticed this receiver has something called front height speakers. Should I assign my speakers to that setting vs front speakers (not sure if you can run w/out front speakers).
 

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Have a question - I'm not able to use normal front speakers and my front speakers are actually ceiling mounted and point downwards (see picture). I noticed this receiver has something called front height speakers. Should I assign my speakers to that setting vs front speakers (not sure if you can run w/out front speakers).

No, you should not assign your front left and right speakers as being height speakers. Besides which, you'd not be able to do this and only the back channel amplification is reassignable.

You would be advised not to locate your front stereo pair on the ceiling as this is not condusive with where you'd locate such speakers. THey ideally need to be at your seated head heithr in front of you in order to be able to create a stereo front soundstage.

Note that you have to include front left and right speakers and that you cannot have a setup where these are reassigned as being front height speakers. Front height, ceiling and upward firing speakers are speakers you add to the base floor layer 5.1 configuration to give you a 5.1.2 setup. Such a setup is used to portray Atmos or DTS:X soundtracks or can be used in conjunction with Dolby Surround or Neural:X upmixing. Height speakers cannot be used as an alturnatives to your front left and right stereo speakers.
 
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Have a question - I'm not able to use normal front speakers and my front speakers are actually ceiling mounted and point downwards (see picture). I noticed this receiver has something called front height speakers. Should I assign my speakers to that setting vs front speakers (not sure if you can run w/out front speakers).
Dante has adequately responded above but to confirm you cannot assign them as height. You have to stick with the base 5.1 floor layout. Worse possible position for your speakers. Bring them all down to seated head height for an immediate improvement in audio quality.
 
Why, what would you have gained? The location would neither be one thing or the other and you'd not perceive an improvement by locating them there. You should locate the speakers in the mid location overhead if that is what you are affter. Locating them towards the front of the room up on side walls isn't going to give you the effect of either ceiling or front height speakers. It you were to try compromise and try emulate ceiling speaker via a pair of wall mounted speakers then you'd be advised to try locate them relative to the location of top middle ceiling speakers. This would still be a compromise though.

I beg to differ.
Having mounted them high (temp) on the sides as 'front ceilings' i can say that there is a very noticable effect and 'immersive audio' experinece and well worth doing if you can't mount on the ceiling.
I have been testing them for just over a week wit various BD/4K content.
Blade Runner 2049 was particularly impressive and there were scenes where the side height speakers seemed to match the location of the scene exactly.
I'll still test them as front heights and overhead ceiling but can't see the front height option being as effective as side heights.

I'va attaced some pics below of the current temp set up taken fom my MLP (speakers are actually slightly nearer, about 4ft due to lens distortion)
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Immersive audio and correct audio layering / staging are very different. You may feel that you have created an immersive audio experience (and for you, you may have) but @dante01 's advice is correct as is @gibbsy 's.
 
You can beg all you want. The effect you get isn't the one intended by Dolby. Yes, you've added scale to the front soundstage, but you've not created the effect you'd have gotten had the speakers been located overhead. Audio is eminating from where you've located the speakers and where you've located them is not conducive with any of Dolby's own guidelines regarding their ;location.

The front ceiling or Top Front location you've assigned the speakers is in itself less preferable than the Top Middle ceiling speaker location if going with an Atmos setup that utilises just 2 effects speakers. You've simply diluted the effect even more by placing the speakers on the side walls as opposed to locating them on the ceiling where intended.

Have you been comparing your setup to one that has the speakers located where it would ordinarilly be advised to locate them? How do you know what such a comparison would sound like or that what you are hearing is in anyway similar?

There's no benefit associated with where you've located the speakers compared to what you'd have got had you simply located them on the front wall as height speakers. Atmos has no side height option and only a front and rear height option. Even these are reqarded as being compromised by Dolby.
 
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I know i'm not alone in setting the speakers this way. I've seen similar setups on this forum (beyond this Denon thread) and on SVS....

What is a Height Effects Speaker for Home Theater?

I can only go on what I can hear and the effect is very noticeable and worthwile. The side speakers are not a million miles away from where they would be mounted as overheads (a couple of feet in fact).

I know overhead ceiling mount is the official preferred way as stated by Dolby and I will be testing that set up soon (if i can find a way of mounting the same speakers on the ceiling). And i'm sure the effect will be better. I'll also test them as front heights on the front wall and will settle on which sounds best.

I previously tried front Onkyo upfiring speakers which were dreadful!
 
And the other setup doing as you've done are also not correct either. If you see a man jump in front of a bus do you mimic him?

There's no advantage to having the heights on the side walls and pretendng that they are on your ceiling. The only way that they'd portray audio from your ceiling without using upward firing speakers is if the speakers are located on your ceiling in alignment with Dolby's own guidlines.

I'm at a loss as to why you think you've achieved something by placing heights on side walls as opposed to the front wall height option your receiver does actually does have a configuration option for?

As to moinnting the minx speakers on a ceiling, simply use the wall mounts, but affixed to the ceiling as opposed to having them mounted on the walls. If you do mount them on the ceiling then you'd probably get the best results by locating them in the Top Middle location slighly in front of your seated location as opposed to the Top FRont location further in front of you.

Yeah, the Onkyo upfirers are dreadful. Many report better results using better and more expensive upward firing speakers from other manufacturers. Your ceiling's construction, finish and ability to reflect the audio can make setting up upward firing speakers less predictable though.
 
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Ultimately you can place your speakers wherever you like, or you can follow the advice, published by the organisation who invented the standards, explaining how and why you should follow their advice to obtain the overall sound-stage that they intended for you to hear, to achieve maximum aural immersion.
The advice posted here not only follows the advice from Dolby Labs, but is also based on considerable personal experience from the posters.
Speakers not being 'a million miles away' from where they should be, often means in audio terms, they may as well be a million miles away. Atmos at the end of the day is a height layer designed to be fired downwards or reflected downwards from the ceiling, to achieve the desired effect. You can choose to wall mount your speakers and they may provide some form of sound-staging, but they will not be providing the effect intended, by Dolby Laboratories, or the film's producers to achieve the desired atmos effect.
 
As to moinnting the minx speakers on a ceiling, simply use the wall mounts, but affixed to the ceiling as opposed to having them mounted on the walls. If you do mount them on the ceiling then you'd probably get the best results by locating them in the Top Middle location slighly in front of your seated location as opposed to the Top FRont location further in front of you.

This was my next question...'top' front or 'middle' setting for ceiling mount?

I'm a bit confused as i was under the impression from the Denon Audyssey set up that 'top front' was slightly in front of the MLP and 'top middle' was directly above the MLP?

Either way which do you recommend for physical ceiling speaker placement..in front, directly above or even slightly behind the MLP? (there's only so much testing and re-mounting i can do!)

EDIT: That should read 'front' not top!
 
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This was my next question...'top' or 'middle' setting for ceiling mount?

I'm a bit confused as i was under the impression from the Denon Audyssey set up that 'top front' was slightly in front of the MLP and 'top middle' was directly above the MLP?

Either way which do you recommend for physical ceiling speaker placement..in front, directly above or even slightly behind the MLP? (there's only so much testing and re-mounting i can do!)
Use TM. The speakers should be placed roughly above where your sitting knees will be at the MLP. This will give a good spread of sound that will come from above and facilitate a smooth transition of sound across the ceiling.
 
Ultimately you can place your speakers wherever you like, or you can follow the advice, published by the organisation who invented the standards, explaining how and why you should follow their advice to obtain the overall sound-stage that they intended for you to hear, to achieve maximum aural immersion.
The advice posted here not only follows the advice from Dolby Labs, but is also based on considerable personal experience from the posters.
Speakers not being 'a million miles away' from where they should be, often means in audio terms, they may as well be a million miles away. Atmos at the end of the day is a height layer designed to be fired downwards or reflected downwards from the ceiling, to achieve the desired effect. You can choose to wall mount your speakers and they may provide some form of sound-staging, but they will not be providing the effect intended, by Dolby Laboratories, or the film's producers to achieve the desired atmos effect.

I agree with what you're saying and i'm normally one to follow offiicial spec etc when it comes to AV. However, sometimes we have to compromise due to room restrictions, 'other half' restrictions, budgets, neighbours etc. Be it placement or rear surrounds on a 5.1 set up, front L & Rs for a basic 'perfect stereo' set up. Subwoofer placement or even not being able to sit at the 'optimum' distance when watching HD or 4K on a 50"+ screen. These 'guidelines' , which I have seen many in my 30 years of being into home cinema (has it been that long!!) are that... guidelines (Atmos set ups being the latest in the HC evolution) which sometimes you have to compromise.
 
Ok, first speaker done. See pics below. Using those Commander adhesive strips as a temp measure for now. Says they can hold 5kg (speakers are 0.5 kg each) so should be ok? If so may use permanently. If not then you may not hear back from me if they fall off and hit me on the head!:facepalm:
 

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Ok, first speaker done. See pics below. Using those Commander adhesive strips as a temp measure for now. Says they can hold 5kg (speakers are 0.5 kg each) so should be ok? If so may use permanently. If not then you may not hear back from me if they fall off and hit me on the head!:facepalm:
I use the Commander strips to hold four gang surge protectors on the back of my cabinet for my AV and hifi kit as well as an aquarium, I've had to replace nearly all of them as they can come away from surfaces like artex or wood. One set in our conservatory completely fell off during the hot summer.

The surge protectors just drop a few inches, speakers might just hurt your head. See @dante01 post above for excellent advice.:)
 
Hi all, I have a minor issue that's stumped me.

I am using the X3400H in my set up with the front pre-outs going to an Arcam SA20 integrated stereo amp, so my Aecam handles the front speakers and the Denon handles the rears and centre in surround (I don't use a sub).

Up until recently I had a Cambridge Audio 751 BD, and found that when playing SACDs over HDMI the first second or so of the first track on any disc would cut off, but when I restarted the track by hitting the back button, it played fine. CDs played fine.

The Cambridge died last week and I've replaced it with a Pioneer UDPLX-500. SACDs now play with no issue, but I've found I'm having the same issue when playing CDs in the Pioneer that I was having playing SACDs in the Cambridge, The second or so of the first track on any disc cuts off, but plays fine when you restart it with the back button.

In both cases I've played the audio via HDMI. As the Denon has remained unchanged, is there a setting I need to change on the Denon? I can't work out what the issue could be that's causing this.
 
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