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DENON X3500H and outputs ZONE 2, PRE OUT

senzaparole

Member
Hello, I own the Denon in question.

I would like to connect a headphone amplifier to my AVR.

I tried to connect the DENON "zone 2" output with an analog RCA cable (white and red RCA) but in no way was I able to send the audio to the headphone amplifier.

Where am I wrong?

I could also use the "pre out" outputs of the Denon, however I would like the volume output from the Denon to have no control because I would like to control the volume directly on the headphone amplifier.
So I would like the volume of audio output from the Denon to be at maximum volume, assigning the task of adjusting it to the headphone amplifier.

I try to solve the problem of the lack of audio I found by connecting the headphone amplifier to the "zone 2" or I connect the latter to the "pre out" output of the Denon, which should give less problems than the "zone 2" ?
 

Jamie

Distinguished Member
Have you powered on zone 2 and selected the appropriate source in zone 2?

On my Marantz remote you press the zone select button to choose zone 2 and then use the usual power and source buttons. There's also some options for setting up the zone 2 analogue outs. AFAICT the software on the Denon is pretty much the same as my Marantz.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Note that the receiver will output audio sourced via its optical and HDMI inputs via the Zone2 analogue outputs, but only if the source is 2 channel PCM in nature. You can however configure the receiver to convert multichannel sources to PCM for output via the Zone2 stereo speakers. There's an option within the Zone2 setup configurations entitled HDMI AUDIO. Set this to PCM. This will convert audio sourced via the HDMI inputs to PCM and allow it to be conveyed via the Xone2 pre outs. There's also a VOLUM LEVEL option that allow you to have either a FIXED or VARIABLE volume in association with the second zone. Set the level using the 1 - 98 (–79 dB – 18 dB) option and it will remain set to that level and cannot then be adjusted using the AV receiver or its remote.

Playback in Zone2

1.
Press ZONE2 to set the operating zone to ZONE2 with the remote control.
The ZONE2 button lights.
2. Press the POWER button to turn on the ZONE2 power.The ( indicator on the display lights.
• Power in ZONE2 can be turned on or off by pressing ZONE2 ON/OFF on the main unit.
3. Press the input source select button to select the input source to be played.
The audio signal of the selected source is output to ZONE2.
•To perform an operation with the main unit, press ZONE2 SOURCE. Each time you press ZONE2 SOURCE, the input source changes.

snapshot001.jpg
 

senzaparole

Member
thanks for the answers.

The sources are never in PCM because I see the movies.

So at this point it is easier to connect the headphone amplifier to the "zone2" output or to the "pre out" outputs?

P.S. Thanks Dante, do you speak Italian?:)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
thanks for the answers.

The sources are never in PCM because I see the movies.

So at this point it is easier to connect the headphone amplifier to the "zone2" output or to the "pre out" outputs?

P.S. Thanks Dante, do you speak Italian?:)
If you were to use just the front left and right channel pre outs then you'd only ever just get the left and right channels and no source with more than this would be mixed down into 2 channels. You'd also be unable to mute the receiver's main speakers while using the headphones and the output via those outputs would be variable and always associated with the receiver's own master volume level.

No, I do not speak Italian.
 
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senzaparole

Member
thanks Dante.

Then I necessarily have to connect the headphone amplifier to the Denon "zone2" output. I have no other possibilities.

Would you also advise me to check what is assigned in "amp assign" or is it not necessary?

In a little while I begin to try. I hope to resolve.
Thanks again for the advice.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
No rassignments are needed in order to use the zone pre outs. These pre outs are always active irrespective of the main room amp assignments.
 

senzaparole

Member
I managed to get the audio out of zone2! I set the zone2 audio from variable to fixed: 98. However, even when the headphone amplifier volume is turned up to maximum, the sound coming out of the headphones is very low.

How can I solve it?

P.S. Can the Denon send audio to the TV speakers instead of to the speakers connected to it? If so how can I send the audio to the TV?
My headphone amplifier ( aphex headpod 4 ) works well if the audio enters digital instead of analog.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
P.S. Can the Denon send audio to the TV speakers instead of to the speakers connected to it? If so how can I send the audio to the TV?
My headphone amplifier ( aphex headpod 4 ) works well if the audio enters digital instead of analog.
You could connect the AV receiver's second HDMI zone output to one of your TV's other HDMI inputs. THis would allow you to select a source for the second zone and both the audio and video associated with that source would be output from the AV receiver to your TV. The sources you can select would be limited to just HDMI inputs on the receiver though.
 

senzaparole

Member
it is not necessary to connect an hdmi cable to zone2.
I noticed that just turning off the AVR and the audio of any source is routed to the TV speakers. :laugh:

p.s.
I tried to change headphone amp and I noticed that the analog zone2 output (RCA connectors) works great.
However, having a particular headphone amplifier I prefer to send audio to TV
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You'd be restricted to whichever HDMI source you set within the passthrough in standby options if relying upon passthrough in standby for access to the audio for your headphones. You'd not be able to select another source on the fly as would have been the case if using the second HDMI zone option. You can either leave this set to the last HDMI source selected prior to putting the AV receiver into standby or set the receiver to one of the following sources:

CBL/SAT / DVD / Blu-ray / Game / AUX1 / AUX2 / Media Player / CD
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Using the Zone2 HDMI output to allow the TV to source audio output via the AV receiver seems to be a more versatile option than using the receiver's PASSTHROUGH IN STANBY abilities and will allow you to change sources on the fly. It should however be noted that tou'd be limited to audio sourced via the AV receivers HDMI inputs regardless of whether using PASSTHROUGH IN STANDBY or the Zone2 HDMI output. You'd not be able to convey audio sourced via the AV receiver's networking capabilities or via the receiver's analogue audio inputs if conveying the signal to your TV via HDMI.
 

senzaparole

Member
once the hdmi cable is connected to zone 2, how do you send audio to the TV? Pressing the aux1 or aux2 button on the remote control?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Select the Zone2 button on the remote and the remote will now be able to control the Standby status of that Zone and you'll be able to select which HDMI source you want to output to Zone2.

snapshot001.jpg



If wanting to return control to the MAIN room then switch the remote back to the MAIN setting using the associated button along the top of the remote. Note that both the MAIN zone and Zone2 are independant of one another so can have different sources. You'd obviously have to set the TV to the HDMI input the second Zone HDMI connection is made to in order to access either the video or the audio associated with that output from the AV receiver via the TV.


It's a lot easier to follow if you've an Android or iOS device and the DEnon control app. This will give you graphic representations of all the zones and their status as well as which sources are in operation in each zone.
 

senzaparole

Member
hello Dante! I purchased another HDMI cable so I connect it to zone2.

Can I ask you for information on sound mode?
I state that I did the automatic calibration using audissey XT32.
The subwoofer was positioned 7 meters away when in reality the subwoofer is only 2 meters away from the listening point.
On the remote control there are colored buttons: movie, music, game and pure. Which setting tips?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The disatance setting can be confusing unless you understand what the receiver is measuring to arrive at the setting. The receiver measures how long the audio takes to arrive at the mic position in order to calculate the distance setting, but some additional processing may be in effect within the signal path prior to that audio arriving at the mic. This explains this in context to a sub:

Distance
Seriously, how important can this be? You let auto-calibration take care of this for you, or if you’re feeling particularly hands on, you might whip out the tape measure, right? A word of wisdom: don’t underestimate the power of the distance setting in your A/V receiver. Obviously the primary job of the distance setting is setting a delay relative to your other speakers. Note, the distance reported by your receiver’s auto-calibration will be inclusive of any delay caused by signal processing happening inside the subwoofer (EQ, low pass filtering, etc.), which can add several feet to the distance per your tape measure. Above and beyond this, the distance adjustment functions as a phase control of sorts. Adding or subtracting a couple feet from the distance of your subwoofer is a viable way of getting rid of an ugly peak or dip around the crossover point. Again, to make the most out of this tool, one does need the ability to take measurements. Still, who would have ever thought such an innocuous setting could have that kind of power?


The receiver may have to set the DISTANCE setting with a setting that doesn't necessarily correspond with a measured physical distance in order to ensure that the audio being output is actually syncronised correctly relative to both the listener and the other speakers.. Don't worry if the setting is set by the receiver to a distance different to your actually physical distance from that speaker.


Modes are a contentious subject and it is really a matter of personal preference as to whether or not you use them. Most will use them relative to stereo 2 channel TV content and will set the AV receiver to a mode such as Dolby Surround or Neural:X for such sources, but you'd not really need such upmixing if accessing Atmos or DTS:X encoded audio. You may wish to create pseudio 3D immersive audio using Dolby Surround or Neural:X upmixing if the source is only 5.1 or 7.1 in nature though?
 

senzaparole

Member
thanks for the comprehensive explanation of the distance.

I noticed that the multi channel stereo mode is very enveloping, perhaps better than the dolby surround.
However I feel the need to activate the audio mode when the original audio is stereo and I want to switch to surround sound.

I don't have a configuration for dolby atmos. I have a 5.1 configuration (3 Xtz Cinema M6 speakers, 2 Xtz Spirit 2 surround speakers and an Xtz 10.17 EDGE subwoower).

1. If I do not want the audio mode active, which remote control key should I press to turn off the sound mode?

2. Is it true that only the PURE audio mode (direct) disables the Audissey XT32 automatic calibration?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The multichannel stereo mode shouldn't be used instead of options such as Dolby Surround or Neural:X relative to video content because it merely duplicate the left and right channels and portrays them via all the speakers present. Dolby Surround or Neural:X use more complex algorythms to calculate which aspects of the side should be portrayedd via different speakers in ordr to try emulate what you would have experienced had the audio been encoded as a discrete multichannel surround format. I'd tend to not use multichannel stereo at all and I'd listen to stereo music in stereo, but if you do engage multichannel stereo then I'd suggest you only use it with music and not video. Modes such as Dolby Surround or Neural:X are better suited to recreating pseudo surround and or 3D immersive audio that is relative to film content.

Even if not having the speakers needed for Atmos and or DTS:X, the Dolby Surround and Neural:X upmixing will still be better at creating the pseudo effect of true surround sound than you'd get via multichannel stereo when watching TV and film content.

If not wanting any mode to be engaged, hold down one of the mode keys until an onscreen menu appears.. Select the discrete audio format from the options that are listed and you'd get that audio without any additional upmixing or modes applied to it.

All audio would be subject t the Audyssey XT32 room EQ correction unless you turn off Audyssey or engage the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT listening modes. PURE DIRECT also bypasses all bass management as well as any video processing.
 

senzaparole

Member
If not wanting any mode to be engaged, hold down one of the mode keys until an onscreen menu appears.. Select the discrete audio format from the options that are listed and you'd get that audio without any additional upmixing or modes applied to it.
hello, thanks again for the information.

If i don't want any mode to be engaged, can I press the yellow "PURE" button and activate the "auto" mode?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The AUTO option will result in the receiver selecting what is in its opinion the most appropriate mode.. This wouldn't nescessarilly be an option that resulted in no upmixing being applied.
 

senzaparole

Member
If not wanting any mode to be engaged, hold down one of the mode keys until an onscreen menu appears.. Select the discrete audio format from the options that are listed and you'd get that audio without any additional upmixing or modes applied to it.
Hi, I'm sorry but I can't understand what you mean by "discrete audio format". I also looked at the manual but found nothing
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
A discrete format would be the format the audio was streamed as by the source and typical the same format the audio was original encoded as if bitstreaming it from the source. This is opposed to upmixing by the AV receiver to create pseudo channels of audio. So if the source is outputting 5.1 Dolby Digital then the discrete format coming into the receiver would be 5.1 Dolby Digital and if no upmixing is being applied, you'd get just 5.1 Dolby Digital.

Pseudo surround would be the result of applying uomixing to a discrete format.. So if you'd a 7.1 or even more expansive speaker layout consisting of more than just 5.1 while the source was encoded as Dolby Digital 5.1 and you then applied a mode such as Dolby Surround or Neiral:X, the receiver would create additional pseudo channels for the additional speakers present.
 
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senzaparole

Member
Thanks so much. Now it's all clear.

If I hold down one of the "audio mode" buttons, a menu appears, then I select the exact same audio format as the source to get the discrete audio format.

However, if I don't know the audio format of the source, to avoid making a mistake, I press the yellow button and select "auto". It's correct?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
AUTO will still result in upmixing being applied in some instances and dependant upon the incoming audio format. For example, 2 channel stereo PCM would not be upmixed, but if the source is 2 channel Dolby Digital then the receiver would automatically engage Dolby Surround upmixing.
 

senzaparole

Member
Hi Dante!

The only way to listen to music with TIDAL is to download the HEOS APP on my smartphone?
Is there a way to access TIDAL directly from the DENON connected to the internet?

A last question. After doing the automatic calibration I noticed that the crossover frequency of the front speakers was set to 40hz. Can I change the frequency manually? I would like to manually set the crossover frequency to 80hz for all high-speakers while ignoring the Audissey.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
As far as I'm aware, you'd need to use the HEOS app and there's no means to access audio being streamed by Tidal directly to the amp without using an intemediate interface.


Yes and it would be recommended that you do so.. Post calibration, set all speakers as being SMALL and assign them a crossover no lower than that measured as being their roll off or preferably no lower than 80Hz if this is in alignment with what the receiver measured and those speakers' abilities.

Basically, set your speakers to SMALL and then set the crossover to 80Hz.

What you'd be advised not to do is set crossovers below where the calibration resulted in them being set.


You may find the following of interest:

Bass Management and the LFE Channel:
 
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senzaparole

Member
Yes and it would be recommended that you do so.. Post calibration, set all speakers as being SMALL and assign them a crossover no lower than that measured as being their roll off or preferably no lower than 80Hz if this is in alignment with what the receiver measured and those speakers' abilities.

Basically, set your speakers to SMALL and then set the crossover to 80Hz.

What you'd be advised not to do is set crossovers below where the calibration resulted in them being set.

you are always very cute!
the manufacturer recommends 80 hz for my speakers.

I don't understand if I have to set the crossover frequency to 80 hz before or after doing the automatic calibration.

I can post calibration results.

Thanks for the recommended readings.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Always deal with bass management and crossover settings after running the calibration. The calibration erases and discards any setting made prior to it.
 

senzaparole

Member
Hi.

I own 3 XTZ Cinema M6, 2 XTZ Spirit 2 and a subwoofer 10.17 EDGE.
I did the calibration with the Audyssey XT32 del Denon X3500H.

Before starting the calibration I made the following settings:

1. subwoofer:
- low pass FREQ: 170 hz;
- PHASE: O °;
- GAIN: 12 noon;
- EQ PARAMETERS: OFF;
- LOW PASS: OFF;
- EQ: REF;
- POWER: always on;

2. denon x3500h:
- SUBWOOFER MODE: LFE + MAIN;
- LPF for LTE: 120 hz;
- front, central and surround speakers: SMALL.

3. I connected an RCA cable to the LINE IN "LEFT" input of the subwoofer and to the PRE OUT input (Subwoofer 1) of the Denon.

After setting the parameters mentioned above I started the automatic calibration of Audyssey XT32.
At the end of the automatic calibration I detected the following values:
- audyssey MultiEQXT32: on;
- audyssey Dynamic EQ: on;
- audyssey Dynamic Volume: off.


Speaker crossover:
- front: 40hz
- central: 40hz
- surround: 80hz

GAIN of the subwoofer: 9 am

levels:
- Front L: -1.5db
- Front R: -1.5db
- Central: -1.0db
- Surround R: 0.0db
- Surround L: -0.5db
- subwoofer: -0.5db

Speaker distances:
- Front L: 2.67 meters
- Front R: 2.58 meters
- Central: 2.46 meters
- subwoofer: 7.41 meters
- Surround L: 1.56 meters
- Surround R: 1.41 meters.

I accepted all the automatic calibration settings except for the crossover frequencies: I set all the speakers (excluding the subwoofer) to 80 hz.
Did I do everything correctly?
 

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