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Did Audessey set my crossovers correctly?

cjprod

Novice Member
Good afternoon all,
Am hoping this is the right section to post. I've been reading the "Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management" post but i'm not sure I am digesting everything properly.

Here is my current equipment.

Receiver:
Denon AVR S730H


Speakers:
Yamaha NS-AP8805 Home Cinema Speaker Package (Front,Center,Surrounds)
Polk Audio OWM3 (Top L & Top R)
Polk Audio PSW505


Sometimes when watching videos (a lot of Dolby Atmos), I feel like some sound is being lost.
The spec sheet for the yamahas says:

Frequency Range
Front,Center,Left - 80 Hz - 35 kHz
Surround - 100 Hz - 35 kHz

Crossover Frequency
Front,Center,Left - 400 Hz
Surround - 4 kHz



Here is what Audessey set my crossovers at:
Speaker Select (Individual, all small)
Front - 200 Hz
Center - 150 Hz
Surround - 150 Hz
Top Middle - 110 Hz

LPF for LFE - 120 Hz


Can someone please kindly comment or advise if these are acceptable or what the recommended settings would be? Is frequency being lost from 120 Hz to 150 Hz? Thanks very much in advance.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I'd suggest Audyssey is making a good assessment of your speakers and the roll off as measured within the space they ocuppy. The only real issue I'd have is with the measurements Audyssey measures for the front 2 speakers. I'm not saying Audyssey is incorrect, but the high crossover in relation to those speakers does suggest that there is something happening within that room to cause this?

Are you using a mic stand and is the initial mic location well away from surrounding walls and or furnishings?
 

cjprod

Novice Member
I'd suggest Audyssey is making a good assessment of your speakers and the roll off as measured within the space they ocuppy. The only real issue I'd have is with the measurements Audyssey measures for the front 2 speakers. I'm not saying Audyssey is incorrect, but the high crossover in relation to those speakers does suggest that there is something happening within that room to cause this?

Are you using a mic stand and is the initial mic location well away from surrounding walls and or furnishings?
Thank you for the quick reply Dante. I ran Audessey perhaps 4 times and it also assigned the same settings. Yes I was using the included cardboard Mic stand and followed the the on screen instructions and placed it on listening positions as specified at ear level on the sofa and set the mic on top of a box when doing areas right in front of the listening areas.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I can only suggest an issue with the front speakers or with their positioning and or location?
 

cjprod

Novice Member
Any suggestions on what I should manually set the Fronts as looking at the specs? I thought maybe 150 Hz also to match the center speaker since Yamaha states the frequency range is the same for all 3.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I cannot suggest you set them below what Audyssey has measured their roll off to be. You shouldn't set crossovers below the frequency the auto calibration sets them. You need to work out wht Audyssey is measuring such a high roll off for the front stereo speakers?
 

KenMasters

Active Member
Just to be clear, the crossovers you see post Audyssey are not what it's suggesting you use as the crossover points. They are what it measured as your speaker's -3db point in your room, you should select what works for you from that point up.

The specs may state that they go down to 80Hz, but they don't state how many db's down they are at that point, may well be -9db. It's not unusual for small sub/sat packages to have high crossover points.
 

THX1138UK

Active Member
It's a difficult one. Audyssey measures the sound in your room and provides a suggestion based on those measurements. The room and Audyssey microphone placement can greatly affect the measurements. When I use Audyssey, I take all the measurement passes from exactly the same position (which is the primary seating position in the room), I don't move the mic at all.

It's been well documented that speaker specifications as published by the manufacturer can be fairly fluid with the truth and they often cherry pick their figures.

When you run Audyssey with some AVRs, it sets the speakers to Full Range after calibration,
even when you have one or more sub-woofer connected. But looks like your speakers are correctly set to Small.

From the figures you've provided, it does look like there is some issue with your front speakers. They could be positioned too close to a wall or faulty. Probably difficult to do, but if you were able to move the front speakers temporarily and re-run the Audyssey calibration it would be interesting to see if the measures values changed significantly.

Audio is far more subjective than video (I struggle with this!). At the end of the day, if your settings sound better, than the Audyssey suggestions, then I would use yours.

Regards,
James.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Audyssey measures the room and how the speakers position within the room effects the potential crossover. It's not unusual for speakers like yours to have readings set so high and it's probably more to do with the room than the speakers.

Do you have a fairly bare room that are causing a lot of reflections. How high are the speakers set. In a corner. All can effect the readings.
 

KenMasters

Active Member
It's a difficult one. Audyssey measures the sound in your room and provides a suggestion based on those measurements. The room and Audyssey microphone placement can greatly affect the measurements. When I use Audyssey, I take all the measurement passes from exactly the same position (which is the primary seating position in the room), I don't move the mic at all.
Why would you choose to do that? You're not giving Audyssey enough data points to do as good a job as it can. I understand you're trying to get the best response at your listening position, but only the first measurement should be exactly at your ideal head position (ideal, as I assume you don't sit straight up in the exact same position for the duration of the content you consume), subsequent measurements should be taken around your perimeter.

You'd be surprised how much a reading can change with just a small adjustment of the mic/head position. By taking a wider spread of readings you should get a more even sound within your ideal space.

When you run Audyssey with some AVRs, it sets the speakers to Full Range after calibration, even when you have one or more sub-woofer connected. But looks like your speakers are correctly set to Small.
They do that if the speaker is capable of hitting what the manufacturer deems full range performance, say reaching as low as 40Hz before hitting the -3db point.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Why would you choose to do that? You're not giving Audyssey enough data points to do as good a job as it can. I understand you're trying to get the best response at your listening position, but only the first measurement should be exactly at your ideal head position (ideal, as I assume you don't sit straight up in the exact same position for the duration of the content you consume), subsequent measurements should be taken around your perimeter.

You'd be surprised how much a reading can change with just a small adjustment of the mic/head position. By taking a wider spread of readings you should get a more even sound within your ideal space.



They do that if the speaker is capable of hitting what the manufacturer deems full range performance, say reaching as low as 40Hz before hitting the -3db point.
Only the first position is actually used to gathered information as to levels, distances and roll off points. Subsequent positions and their associated measurements only relate to room EQ.

It actually depends upon the room and your location within it as to whether taking measurements from multiple locations actually results in you getting better room EQ relative to where you are sat. The miltiples locations actually result in an averaged EQ corection as opposed to one specific to one location.

Audyssey themselves do not take responsibility for speaker sizes or bass management and advise that the THX guidelines on such matters be followed (all speakers be designated SMALL irrespective of their physical size or rated capabilities). It is the AV receiver's manufacturer who accesses the roll off measurements taken by Audyssey and uses them to determine whether to set your speakers as being SMALL or LARGE. Audyssey do not deal with bass management, speaker sizes or crossovers. They do however recommend that crossovers not be set below where the calibration determine a speakers roll off to be.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
As to the issue at hand, maybe try another pair of speakers at the front if you have access to any and see what that results in?
 

KenMasters

Active Member
Only the first position is actually used to gathered information as to levels, distances and roll off points. Subsequent positions and their associated measurements only relate to room EQ.
I know, which is why I said the first measurement needs to be at the ideal listening position.

It actually depends upon the room and your location within it as to whether taking measurements from multiple locations actually results in you getting better room EQ relative to where you are sat. The miltiples locations actually result in an averaged EQ corection as opposed to one specific to one location.
Yes, what you want to do is use the maximum amount of measurements available to you, and sample within a very small area around you in order to give Audyssey as much data about the effect of your room at your seated position as possible.

We don't sit stiff as boards in a single position when we consume content, we lean forward, lie to the side, slouch down, bob our heads. When you measure your system, just tipping the mic up or down influences the measurement, what you want is a good, even surround bubble around your seated position.
 
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cjprod

Novice Member
Audyssey measures the room and how the speakers position within the room effects the potential crossover. It's not unusual for speakers like yours to have readings set so high and it's probably more to do with the room than the speakers.

Do you have a fairly bare room that are causing a lot of reflections. How high are the speakers set. In a corner. All can effect the readings.
I'm not in a dedicated room. System is actually set up in the main area of the apartment which also leads right into the kitchen and to the left of me are stairs going down to the first floor. I am closed off on 3 sides. I would say it's about 18 ft x 14 ft. front speakers and TV are at least 2 feet away from the wall. To answer the question of moving speakers and retesting was an option, I can take them off the TV stand and put them wider apart but on the floor, which would probably not be useful. Unfortunately only my surrounds are on stands which I can move around freely.
 
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swiftpete

Distinguished Member
You need bigger speakers. Yours aren’t man enough to produce bass low enough which is why they are measuring the way they do. You will need to get your wallet out. Obviously treat the room as well as much as possible with cushions, curtains and rugs.
 

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