Do expensive HDMI cables make a difference? - article discussion

It should be stressed that there's no requirement to certify cables with HDMI org and the cable you are refering to is one of the most affordable, yet reliable cables you can buy that isn't certified. Buying a certified cable will not nescessarilly get you anything better and will more than likely cost you more money.

It is true that the ethernet channel abilities of HDMI haven't been exploited by hardware manufacturers, but compliant cables do perform better in situations whereby ARC is used. I do believe that the ethernet channel is used in conjunction with ARC and not just eARC. HEC and ARC basically use the same 2 wires. HEC is the HDMI Ethernet Channel, and enables HDMI connected devices to access the internet without each of them requiring separate Ethernet cables. Because HEC and ARC use the same two wires inside the HDMI cable, the names are sometimes combined to HEAC - HDMI Ethernet Audio Channe.

While it is true that an ATC certified cable is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work in all situations, it is a guarantee that the cable was tested and certified by HMDI.org (the folks who got us in this HDMI mess in the first place) to meet ALL of the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications, and is not just marketing fluff and b.s. Premium High Speed cables are relatively cheap so it would be in ones best interest to use them. Just one less thing to trouble-shoot.

The unused ethernet channel was meant to be used for internet connectivity so a single cable could be used to do it all. That never panned out for the mfrs. Whether the enet channel was used for ARC or not is debatable. eARC is different in that the channel needs to not only communicate with the source it also has to be able to return HD Audio, which is more difficult. It is also dependent on how the HDMI chipsets are designed.
 
I presume it’s safe to presume (or naive) that hdmi cables you get with your Xbox, ps4 or Switch are appropriate?!
 
I've just got round to upgrade my TV & AVR so I'm now on the 4k & HDR bandwagon. My existing HDMI cables hark from the 1.3 era and are all nicely buried in the wall. They're good quality cables from BJC and the TV one is about 3m long. Would this be ok for passing 4k & HDR or do I need to dig up the wall again? Not really interested about eARC or any fancy stuff and I don't use the telly for gaming.

thanks
 
I've just got round to upgrade my TV & AVR so I'm now on the 4k & HDR bandwagon. My existing HDMI cables hark from the 1.3 era and are all nicely buried in the wall. They're good quality cables from BJC and the TV one is about 3m long. Would this be ok for passing 4k & HDR or do I need to dig up the wall again? Not really interested about eARC or any fancy stuff and I don't use the telly for gaming.
Depending on which BJC cables they are, if you believe the blurb BJC didn't actually do anything to them to get them to pass certification when HDMI.org passed the scheme - they already passes. So maybe you'll be ok.

Is it one with the Belden bonded pair cable?

Probably the easiest thing is to try it - if they work then job done.
 
Is it one with the Belden bonded pair cable?

Probably the easiest thing is to try it - if they work then job done.
They could well be.
I can easily try them but my worry is that I wouldn't be able to realise if for instance HDR is disabled due to cable bandwidth limitations.
 
The 'Info' button on your Display device will let you know the format it is receiving and most Source devices will also overlay what Format they are Outputting.

The length of your cable is likely the key factor to consider when trying to push higher bandwidth signals over the installed cable.

Joe
 
At 10m you can run into issues with HD (1080p) and will more than likely have issues with UHD (2160p) - our 'solution' being one of our RuiPro Hybrid Fibre HDMI cables which then takes away any issues around running the cable close to a power cable!

Joe

From the moment I upgraded to 4K I had problems with picture and sound dropouts. I need a 7m cable between my AVR and TV and I've always been an advocate against expensive HDMI cables but it didn't matter which brand I tried in the £10/15 price range I kept having the same problems. Weirdly, some of the most persistent dropouts happened if I played a DVD in the 4K Player but I also had them playing 4K discs and using the Xbox X and PS4 PRO. I think it was yourself who mentioned Hybrid Fibre HDMI cables in reply to a post I made about the issues I was having. I was adamant that I shouldn't have to spend £100 on an HDMI cable to have 4K work the way it's supposed to so I persevered with my quest to find a cheap cable that worked. That ended up being nothing more than chasing rainbows and more wasted money. When Amazon started their Black Friday sales a few weeks ago I looked at the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cable and the 10m one had dropped to £88 so I finally gave in and grudgingly bought one. I hooked it up, fired up the Bluray player, Xbox X, PS4 Pro and started testing. Everything worked flawlessly and I wish I'd bought it a year ago as I spent about the same amount on various cheaper cables. I just wanted to say thank you for mentioning Fibre HDMI as they weren't something I knew about. I just wish I'd taken your advice back then o_O :thumbsup:
 
Where are you based? Anywhere near anglesey buy any chance? If so I could test them/it for you with my muridro SIX A/ SIX G pair. Cheers john.
 
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Can anyone offer some advice please. Would an Amazon basics HDMI cable be sufficient for my needs? Other suggestions very welcome.

2.5m linking up LG C9 and a UHD BLU RAY player.

Thanks B
 
Can anyone offer some advice please. Would an Amazon basics HDMI cable be sufficient for my needs? Other suggestions very welcome.

2.5m linking up LG C9 and a UHD BLU RAY player.

Thanks B

At about 7' you should be using a Premium High Speed HDMI cable for 4k HDR. They are certified for HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications and will come with a QR label for authenticity. In fact, you should be using Premium High Speed HDMI cables for any cable connection up to about 20' or so.
 
Not sure where to put this but HDMI.org have release the testing spec for Ultra High Speed HDMI. (news feed last night)
Not sure when it hits the shops.
 
More life if it hits the shops.
It may need fibre even for short cables.
 
Well, just thought I would add something else to watch out for. I expect those in the know here are already across it.
 
3m has been the suggested 'max' certifiable length since the 'Ultra High Speed' label was first announced in 2018!

Joe
 
3m has been the suggested 'max' certifiable length since the 'Ultra High Speed' label was first announced in 2018!

Joe

But the spec does include active cables now so presumably they could be certified (when they release that standard test)
 
The original spec for passive UHS HDMI cables was set at 1m - 3m. While active cables are part of the spec there has been considerable issues in designing and implementing a standardized certification program via the ATC's. It will probably be quite some time yet, if ever, that we see an active cable (copper only or hybrid fiber) certified by an ATC with a QR label for authenticity. Your best bet is to use a hybrid fiber cable that has been tested by a known ATC following the protocols and instrumentation recommended by HDMI.org, even though it won't be able to receive the certified labeling. I am currently testing/using hybrid fiber cables at 4' lengths and they work just fine for HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications (4k UHD).
 
'But the spec does include active cables now so presumably they could be certified (when they release that standard test)' - hopefully yes :)

Though it is going to be costly so manufacturers have to juggle additional sales (of Cerified cables) vs. continuing with the current practice of self testing/testing in the field and or going through the motions at n ATC test centre without full Certification.

Joe
 
'But the spec does include active cables now so presumably they could be certified (when they release that standard test)' - hopefully yes :)

Though it is going to be costly so manufacturers have to juggle additional sales (of Cerified cables) vs. continuing with the current practice of self testing/testing in the field and or going through the motions at n ATC test centre without full Certification.

Joe

Yes agree though this time the market will be bigger due to the fact anybody wanting to go over 3m won't have a choice but to go for a non passive solution. From a scale volume you will get savings so would be interested to see what the price point for say a five metre cable would be.
 
Yes agree though this time the market will be bigger due to the fact anybody wanting to go over 3m won't have a choice but to go for a non passive solution. From a scale volume you will get savings so would be interested to see what the price point for say a five metre cable would be.

I know of one cable mfr who is actively testing their hybrid fiber cables (active) with an ATC for 8k (HDMI 2.1) and has already done so for their 4k cables (HDMI 2.0). Unfortunately HDMI.org will still not allow certification for active cables (copper or fiber/hybrid fiber). One of the issues is the power requirements that the cables require and to get chipsets that play nice with HDMI inputs from different mfrs.
 
I know of one cable mfr who is actively testing their hybrid fiber cables (active) with an ATC for 8k (HDMI 2.1) and has already done so for their 4k cables (HDMI 2.0). Unfortunately HDMI.org will still not allow certification for active cables (copper or fiber/hybrid fiber). One of the issues is the power requirements that the cables require and to get chipsets that play nice with HDMI inputs from different mfrs.
The current standards set simply don't allow for active cables (or at least how they are currently implemented). The current drawn by the cable itself from the source means the HDMi connection at the other end no longer has sufficient power available (if the source only just complies with spec). The bend radius and robustness I believe also cannot be made to work for fibre HDMI cables.

I think the ball is in HDMI.org's court - they need to spec HDMI such that active hybrid fibre cables can actually exist and pass spec. I've not seen the latest 2.1 specs but I'm still not sure this has actually happened.
 
The current standards set simply don't allow for active cables (or at least how they are currently implemented). The current drawn by the cable itself from the source means the HDMi connection at the other end no longer has sufficient power available (if the source only just complies with spec). The bend radius and robustness I believe also cannot be made to work for fibre HDMI cables.

I think the ball is in HDMI.org's court - they need to spec HDMI such that active hybrid fibre cables can actually exist and pass spec. I've not seen the latest 2.1 specs but I'm still not sure this has actually happened.

The bend radius on hybrid fiber cables is very very good. Far better than copper-based. I'm using the Ruipro4k cables (HDMI 2.0) and other than just a slight delay (5-10 sec) in the initial handshaking, they work extremely well for 4k HDR. For HDMI 2.1 and beyond, hybrid fiber will probably be the only way to go because copper-only in just not going to cut it. Maybe HDBT with the new Valens chipsets and solid core CAT-6/7 cabling but even that will have limitations. Hybrid fiber cables can be tested by an ATC as I mentioned above, and pass the current HDMI 2.0/2.1 specifications (option sets), they just can't be labled as UHS HDMI cables nor get the certified designation. Hybrid fiber cables are designed to draw only 50mA, which is easy, in theory, for current HDMI inputs. One of the power issues is designing the connector chipsets to be more robust in handling even slightest fluctuations in power without creating issues. Power inserters are useful in some cases depending on how the sink end of the connected device deals with it.
 
HDMI just needs to become an optical only standard at this point, as data rates push into the 100s of Gbit/s copper simply isn't practical, optical is the only way. They should ditch the 'HDMI' name and go with a new name to stop confusion.

As usual, the consumer market charges more for inferior technology. Look at the professional market's technologies, which in the case of high-speed data transfer are the IEEE Ethernet standards. In 2006 ethernet could do 10Gbit/s over shielded twisted pairs up to 100 metres. Today there are standards for 200Gbit/s transfer, but only one of them specifies copper twisted pair and the range is only 3 metres. There are also 400Gbit/s standards in place but they all specify fibre, no more copper specification at these speeds, no point.
 

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