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DTS: X is finally launched

Roku2

Distinguished Member
I'm with Ringnut on this for exactly the same reasons; the 'over use' of the heights when upmixing using Neural:X, I don't like what it does to music as it seems to make the LCR sound odd at the expense of using the height channels so much.

I'm even more 'hair shirt' though as for any music discs I turn off ANY upmixing and just listen to the native source (ie DTS-MA, PCM or Dolby Digital/True HD). To be honest, with a really decent front soundstage, just having a bit of ambience (using Tripole surrounds) is fine with me. I'd rather hear the music in it's best, unadultered quality rather than messed about with by upmixers, etc. For film/TV content though I'm OK with upmixing...I just prefer the DSU version.

EDIT: Yes Neural:X seems to weaken the bass too IMHO.
Weak bass? What about weak dialogue level?
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
So basically there is really NO use for Neural X, ever
There you go again, wanting to post absolutes and put words in other people's mouths. :rolleyes:

I use Neural:X occasionally, usually with TV content. I'm not so bothered about the single digit Hz content (since some of us on this thread can do that ;)), the more active use of the height channels helps give a bit more ambience to those 2.0 channel sources. Also, having a decently set up system and room I don't tend to suffer with dialogue inteligabilty: Even the recent fuss made about a UK TV series (SS-GB) having poor dialogue inteligability wasn't an issue for me for example.
 

Roku2

Distinguished Member
There you go again, wanting to post absolutes and put words in other people's mouths. :rolleyes:

I use Neural:X occasionally, usually with TV content. I'm not so bothered about the single digit Hz content (since some of us on this thread can do that ;)), the more active use of the height channels helps give a bit more ambience to those 2.0 channel sources. Also, having a decently set up system and room I don't tend to suffer with dialogue inteligabilty: Even the recent fuss made about a UK TV series (SS-GB) having poor dialogue inteligability wasn't an issue for me for example.
So occasional TV content (PCM sources) can benefit from neural x. Everything else is DSU. Understood.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
In my case yes, but I'm sure others will prefer to use Neural:X for disc content of non native Atmos/DTS:X playback. Same as some prefer to use DEQ. ;)
 

kopmjj

Active Member
Hi guys I set up my 4.1.2 atmos dts x today without the centre speaker, but I can only play atmos and dsu and my height speakers work great, but when I select netrual x I get no sound from the heights, is that normal? I really can't fit a centre and don't want to miss out on dts x but going by this thread I guess I'm not missing much?

By the way my phantom centre works perfect and atmos and dsu with front heights sounds better than my previous 5.1.4 set up I had strange.

Maybe it was the centre speaker overshadowing my height speakers before or maybe everything was too close together? As my left and right are positioned afoot on either side of the tv.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Hi guys I set up my 4.1.2 atmos dts x today without the centre speaker, but I can only play atmos and dsu and my height speakers work great, but when I select netrual x I get no sound from the heights, is that normal? I really can't fit a centre and don't want to miss out on dts x but going by this thread I guess I'm not missing much?

By the way my phantom centre works perfect and atmos and dsu with front heights sounds better than my previous 5.1.4 set up I had strange.

Maybe it was the centre speaker overshadowing my height speakers before or maybe everything was too close together? As my left and right are positioned afoot on either side of the tv.

I'm using a Yamaha receiver and both DTS:X and Neural:X can be facilitated if the centre speaker is deactivated. DTS:X was tested using the DTS:X Callout demo and my 2 front height speakers were utilised within a 4.1.2 setup.
 

kopmjj

Active Member
I've created a thread over avs and someone mentioned denon and marantz is limited with dts x without a centre speaker I find that very strange Dante
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I've created a thread over avs and someone mentioned denon and marantz is limited with dts x without a centre speaker I find that very strange Dante
I can't comment on Denon or Marantz receivers or their ability to facilitate a 4.1.2 setup in conjunction with either DTS:X or Neural:X.
 

Roku2

Distinguished Member
In my case yes, but I'm sure others will prefer to use Neural:X for disc content of non native Atmos/DTS:X playback. Same as some prefer to use DEQ. ;)
So Neural X is a valid option not grounds to be stoned to death for butchering the original soundtrack...interesting
 

Skylinestar

Member
In addition, when I listen to tracks with Neural:X the voices move towards the top of the screen which they don't with the Dolby Upmixer. It's not just me because others have commented on this also.
You mean DTS will mix center channel content to the height speakers?
 

fayeanddavid

Distinguished Member
You mean DTS will mix center channel content to the height speakers?
Not how I read this, just seems the centre aural output appears to be higher than its physical location is what I think the OP means
I certainly have noticed something similar in Neural X, quite like the effect for Sky and Netflix.
Neural X is my current go to default setting.
 
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Skylinestar

Member
Not how I read this, just seems the centre aural output appears to be higher than its physical location is what I think the OP means
Mixing center audio into the height speaker is the only way to "virtually lift" the dialogue. Kinda like Yamaha's proprietary Dialogue Lift.
 

fayeanddavid

Distinguished Member
Mixing center audio into the height speaker is the only way to "virtually lift" the dialogue. Kinda like Yamaha's proprietary Dialogue Lift.
Then it has to be extremely subtle as I am anal enough to constantly checking out put from my upfiring speaker and have heard nothing.
Could be just a trick to the senses as the sound has Height now and we (ears/brain that is) place the dialogue higher as we would normally hear, aural illusion (lousy metaphor I know but you know what I mean)
 

Roku2

Distinguished Member
I'm trying to compare ds to neural x and how they both affect dts h master and it does seem that ds might be a more rational choice.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Then it has to be extremely subtle as I am anal enough to constantly checking out put from my upfiring speaker and have heard nothing.
Me too. You are not alone anymore.:thumbsup:
 

Ringnut

Distinguished Member
Not how I read this, just seems the centre aural output appears to be higher than its physical location is what I think the OP means
I certainly have noticed something similar in Neural X, quite like the effect for Sky and Netflix.
I noticed this effect first in the title song for Spectre. Dolby Upmixer had the voice centred firmly between L&R whereas Neural:X had it towards the top of the screen. I seem to remember @markymiles who was with me also commented on hearing the same at the time.
 

Roku2

Distinguished Member
I noticed this effect first in the title song for Spectre. Dolby Upmixer had the voice centred firmly between L&R whereas Neural:X had it towards the top of the screen. I seem to remember @markymiles who was with me also commented on hearing the same at the time.
Is that a good thing though?
 

indus

Distinguished Member
Glad I'm not the only one who feels neural x often sends too much info to the height speakers. It was impressive at first but then you realise it's not realistic or accurate.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Glad I'm not the only one who feels neural x often sends too much info to the height speakers. It was impressive at first but then you realise it's not realistic or accurate.
Using KEF R50 modules I find that Neural X expands the front soundfield height wise and gives quite a natural feel. Perhaps it is more suited to modules than in ceiling speakers. It's pretty good at picking out object based sounds as well often placing them perfectly within the soundstage. I've been using my receiver and Atmos combo for just under a year. I have no problems with dialogue as it is fixed firmly to the centre of the screen, centre of the tweeter is roughly 60cm to screen centre.
 

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