DTS: X is finally launched

At the moment I have 4 speakers at the back, 1 in each corner and 2 in the middle at the back on the floor. Usual 2 fronts in each corner and centre at the front. Can this do DTS: X? I wont be putting speakers in the ceiling. I can put the middle rears on a high shelf where the projector is.

For both DTS:X and Atmos, you need at least a conventional 5.1 floor level layer plus 2 additional Atmos speakers. This would give you what is termed a 5.1.2 setup. The floorlayer speakers ideally need to be at your seated head height while the 2 Atmos speakers either need to be located on firing downward, on the front wall high up above the front left and right speakers or as 2 upward fireing speakers located on top of your front left and right speakers.

This document relates to Atmos, but you can use it to determine where to place your speakers in a manner that can be utilised by both Atmos and DTS:X:
 
So to get Atmos from my 7.2 amp my choices are either speakers in ceiling above me, 1 each side halfway down room, 2 front speakers upfacing.
 
So to get Atmos from my 7.2 amp my choices are either speakers in ceiling above me, 1 each side halfway down room, 2 front speakers upfacing.

No, there's no option to locate the 2 Atmos speakers alongside you halfway down the room.

You can have 2 ceiling speakers ideally located above you, 2 height speakers located high up on your front wall above your front left and right speakers or to use 2 upfiring speakers ideally placed on top of your front left and right speakers. Any of these would give you a 5.1.2 speaker layout admissable for use with either Atmos or DTS:X.

Note that there will be visual representations of all these options within your AV receiver's manual.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I have a white ceiling so am thinking of installing some white atmos speakers, question is can I do this without having to pull up floorboards in room above. Could I maybe install speaker like example and run white wire in corner of ceiling so you can't see it?

So something that goes in nook of the wall and ceiling instead of installed into the ceiling?

Also presume as my systems is only 7.2 I'd only have option to install 2 new ceiling Atmos speakers?

Whats a good 9.2 amp then under 1k?
 

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You can surface mount the ceiling speakers as well as the associated wiring and there's no necessity to have in ceiling speakers. Whether you'd be asthetically better off having the speakers mounted in the ceiling and the wiring concealed under the floor above is another matter.

If you were to mount the speakers where the wallintersects with the ceiling then the speakers would not be correctly located unless you were installing front heights. THe ceiling option requires that the ceiling speakers be parallel with the front left and right speakers as opposed to being located on the very edges of your room. Neither would they be firing downward if mounted where you suggest.


If you've only a 7 channel AV receiver then you cannot have more than just 2 Atmos speakers or anything more than a 5.1.2 setup.


If wanting a 9 channel receiver then look at the Denon AVRX4500 or maybe a Marantz SR6013:




The above 2 options would allow you to have either a 7.1.2 or a 5.1.4 setup. They can even facilitate you with a 7.1.4 setup if you add another 2 channels of external amplification.
 
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If you've only a 7 channel AV receiver then you cannot have more than just 2 Atmos speakers or anything more than a 5.1.2 setup.
The above 2 options would allow you to have either a 7.1.2 or a 5.1.4 setup. They can even facilitate you with a 7.1.4 setup if you add another 2 channels of external amplification.

Hi @dante01

At risk of belaboring your advice, I'm in a similar situation as brad.

Of the two options you presented, the purchase of a new AVR is, of course, clear enough. My current setup is a Yamaha RX-781 in 5.1.2 configuration. Your second option was adding another "2 channels of external amplification." I'm unclear on how to do this or if this is even an option for my AVR.

Am I simply out of luck or is adding external amplification a viable option for me? I've combed my AVR's manual to no, clear, avail.

Appreciate any advice!
 
Hi @dante01

At risk of belaboring your advice, I'm in a similar situation as brad.

Of the two options you presented, the purchase of a new AVR is, of course, clear enough. My current setup is a Yamaha RX-781 in 5.1.2 configuration. Your second option was adding another "2 channels of external amplification." I'm unclear on how to do this or if this is even an option for my AVR.

Am I simply out of luck or is adding external amplification a viable option for me? I've combed my AVR's manual to no, clear, avail.

Appreciate any advice!


Your current AV receiver is limited to no more than 7 channels of audio processing and has no option to add more channels of additional external amplification. THe most you can do with that receiver is a 5.1.2 or a 7.1 setup and layout.

You'd need at least a 9 channel receiver to be able to have 9 or more speakers present in your setup. This is excluding Arcam Atmos enabled receivers which are all 7 channel, but do include 11 channel processing.
 
I cannot currently accommodate back speakers so If I ever do adopt either Atmos or DTS:X then I'd be limited to a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 configuration. In fact it is practically impossible to even have ceiling speakers unless surface mounted so I'm hoping that DTS:X has more support for height speakers than the limited possibilities on offer with Atmos?
All this noise you are making, and you don't even have an immersive setup
 

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All this noise you are making, and you don't even have an immersive setup

I was waiting for you to come along and advise me on how best to do it.


Stll waiting :)
 
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All this noise you are making, and you don't even have an immersive setup
Not necessarily the point given the raft of good technical input @dante01 has provided over the years.
It's not a competition, it's knowledge
 
Not trying to put him down, but as a person who has an Atmos system, I feel just having technical skills is not the same as actually implementing and learning from personal experiences with different speaker configurations. If his assumptions about height configuration on side walls at ceiling juncture haven't changed, then he is dead wrong. This position will have the same effect as the top middle I showed in the picture above. You do not HAVE TO INSTALL CEILING SPEAKERS to get a great Atmos/ DTS:X experience. Just my 2 cents of experience. I may be new on this site, but I'm not new to this topic. I just haven't read anything from him that indicates he's changed his previous views. He came across sort of like a know it all from reading and studying, but not actually doing. A little humility goes a long way my friend.
 
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Not trying to put him down, but as a person who has an Atmos system, I feel just having technical skills is not the same as actually implementing and learning from personal experiences with different speaker configurations. If his assumptions about height configuration on side walls at ceiling juncture haven't changed, then he is dead wrong. This position will have the same effect as the top middle I showed in the picture above. You do not HAVE TO INSTALL CEILING SPEAKERS to get a great Atmos/ DTS:X experience. Just my 2 cents of experience


No, you went out of your way to try put me down.


I'm sure many are now awaiting you indepth expertise regarding such matters.


Good luck :)




Sorry, but where in the Dolby guidlines do Dolby discuss locating Atmos effects speakers on side walls?


You can do this, but it is a compromise and in no way what so ever endorsed by any AV receiver manufacturer or Dolby.

The speakers would simply not be in a location that would comply will where Dolby have decided to [portray the audio associated with those speakers to be eminating from, hence the reason they give advice on where to locate speakers.


Dolby do howeber support front and rear heights, ceiling and or upward firing speakers. All of which are covered within their own guidlines. THe best option would be ceiling speakers and this gives the closest representation of the Atmos soundtrack as it was perceived while being mixed.
 
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Not trying to put him down, but as a person who has an Atmos system, I feel just having technical skills is not the same as actually implementing and learning from personal experiences with different speaker configurations. If his assumptions about height configuration on side walls at ceiling juncture haven't changed, then he is dead wrong. This position will have the same effect as the top middle I showed in the picture above. You do not HAVE TO INSTALL CEILING SPEAKERS to get a great Atmos/ DTS:X experience. Just my 2 cents of experience. I may be new on this site, but I'm not new to this topic. I just haven't read anything from him that indicates he's changed his previous views. He came across sort of like a know it all from reading and studying, but not actually doing. A little humility goes a long way my friend.
I don't see where @dante01 suggested using side wall/at ceiling juncture as a solution, however he did most definitely say that it was NOT a solution
I have Atmos implemented, all surface mount, rears are ceiling mount1.25m behind me and I use front heights not on ceiling, works fine, could be better in/on ceiling but have to consider a number of factors for that to happen
 
We are all connected here for the same reasons my friend, to find out about this hobby, and to share what we have tested as well as what we've learned from others in order to help the next person. I apologize if I have offended you! That's the point, it is a solution, ask MagnumxL
 
We are all connected here for the same reasons my friend, to find out about this hobby, and to share what we have tested as well as what we've learned from others in order to help the next person. I apologize if I have offended you! That's the point, it is a solution, ask MagnumxL
Thanks , I am sure @dante01 will appreciate your apology

On an extended note on our hobby, some thought before we hit the keyboard is always appreciated, thanks again
 
The idea of cutting large holes and mounting speakers in the ceiling for Atmos / DTS-X can be daunting. Another approach is to use low profile (flat) speakers that are designed to be wall mounted, and attach these to the ceiling instead.

I'm using a pair of Monitor Audio Shadow 50 speakers as my Top-Middle speakers and these work brilliantly. They are only a couple of centimetres deep and make great ceiling speakers. Unfortunately, this particular range is discontinued, but others exist.

Regards,
James.
 
The idea of cutting large holes and mounting speakers in the ceiling for Atmos / DTS-X can be daunting. Another approach is to use low profile (flat) speakers that are designed to be wall mounted, and attach these to the ceiling instead.
krix makes their surrounds so they can be either wall or ceiling mounted...

even their basic ones,

or their phonix45 that are specifically for on wall or on ceiling.

that said i know making holes is daunting... and it took me for instance about 2 years of planning and procrastination :D exploring otiose and what not...

but once i took the leap it was all over and done with quicker than i thought :D

5 years down the track i added one more hole to go 7.1.6 for DTS-X pro and with a Ch and Ts(VOG) that is supported by not only dts-X but also auro3D and that one more speaker was actually harder to do than if i did it with the other 5 i made 5 years ago... so if making holes and running cables .... do once and do it right ... going back is harder...

re in ceiling ...
its definitely far more discrete.... than on wall or on ceiling....
 
re in ceiling ...
its definitely far more discrete.... than on wall or on ceiling...

Discrete placement wise, or do you mean the audio is of a more discrete nature ( pinpoint sound etc.)
 
You can always keep the discs of ceiling you removed and put back with a bit of filler if you need to at a later date.
 
Discrete placement wise, or do you mean the audio is of a more discrete nature ( pinpoint sound etc.)
visually.... :)

You can always keep the discs of ceiling you removed and put back with a bit of filler if you need to at a later date.
when i cut out those discs ...oh yeah I put the plaster cutouts in a bag and stuck in the garage to be forgotten :D
 
The thing I'm interested in is, how would those with inceiling setup describe the audio experience. I have front and rear heights. When something starts out in the rear, it will cross over the upper level of the room and extend to the screen. At times the sound is fantastic as the object goes off stage. How do you with inceiling setup perceive something like this? Excuse me for asking this question here, but I can't find anything on this site that deals with the immersive experience of the various speaker configurations. I was thinking of starting a thread on this subject, but don't know where to
 
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The thing I'm interested in is, how would those with inceiling setup describe the audio experience. I have front and rear heights. When something starts out in the rear, it will cross over the upper level of the room and extend to the screen. At times the sound is fantastic as the object goes off stage. How do you with inceiling setup perceive something like this? Excuse me for asking this question here, but I can't find anything on this site that deals with the immersive experience of the various speaker configurations. I was thinking of starting a thread on this subject, but don't know where to
ive done a bit of listening of different setups over last 5 years... main difference i think is with in ceiling ie over head speakers you actually do feel the sound comes from over head ...

if have just front wall and rear wall mounted heights... they create a kind phantom image... but which isnt as convincingly over head... there is a movie i watch which was a haunted house and the pattern the chair moves on the floor above is exactly the pattern the chair is heard to move at ceiling height. this is tough to do with front and rear heights...this is also impossible to d0 with just two inceiling heights...

the other difference between front and rear mounted vs inceiling.... is if just going for 4 incline speakers... i found there is a hole at front top of the screen... and which is where a Ch - centre height speaker comes in.

also there is a bit of a hole between the four top surrounds if using 4 and thats where a Ts or VOG fills that hole...this is a main failing of atmos I feel that is missing these crucial speakers that DTS/imax/auro3D pickup....
 
Atmos was developed for use in cinemas fitted out with overhead ceiling speakers and as such the soundtracks mixed to utilise Atmos are mixed in studios fitted out with overgead speakers. You therefore need to have overhead speakers in a home theatre setup to be able to portray Atmos as close to how the person mixing it heard it when they mixed it and to portray it as close as you can to how it would have been portrayed in a cinema.

There are difference to the Atmos you get in cenemas compared to the Atmos you get at home, but the unifying element is the overhead speakers.

You can utilise height speakers or y=upward firing speakers as an alternative to ceiling speakers if ceilings speakers for whatever reason cannot be accomodated. Height speakers will still reward you with more immersion, but will not be so adept as ceiling speakers when it comes to overhead effects. Upward firing speaker can in theiry emulate ceiling speakers by way of reflecting the audio off you ceiling to create the effect of ceiling speakers, but may and probably will not be effective due to a variety of factors infkluening the performance.

Here the crux of the matter though, this topic relates to DTS's DTS:X object based audio format and not Dolby's Atmos format. DTS originally had no intention of using ceiling speakers and DTS:X was oroginally designed to utilise height as opposed to overhead speakers. It wasn't until Dolby announced they they were bringing a hime theatre variant of their cinema Atmos to the table that DTS started to suggest that their sysem would also use ceiling speakers if needed to. Also note the Auro 3D doesn't use ceiling speakers in their home implementation of Auro 3D. It has to be said that Auro 3D isn't an object based format though.

The other thing to remember is that there are very few actual overhead effects that would actually benefot that mich from having speakers over your head. THe technicalities of portraying audio overhead are also another factor worth pondering. THe guman auditory system isn't recognised as being able to localise anything eminating sound that is 30° above the horizon of the listener so why would having speakers overheard work? THey disperse sound as opposed to being able to precisely locate audio above you.

DTS:X was originally developed in movie theatres fillted out for Auro 3D, not in theatres with Dolby Atmos. This kind of inddicates how essential overhead speakers are in regards to DTS:X.

Yes, if you want the best Atmos setup you can attain then you'd try to use overhead speakers, but no they are not essential. DTS:X can utilse an Atmos setup that includes overhead ceiling speakers, but was never technically developed for portrayal via overhead speakers. It is however more likely that someone will want a setup that portrays both Atmos and DTS:X at their best so ceiling speakers are still the preferred option if they can be accommodated. DTS themselves have no preference as to where you locat the additional speakers while Dolby enphasise the use of overhead ceiling speakers. Auro obn the otherhand stress the use of heights and the home variant of Auro 3D will not correctly work if using ceiling speakers or upward firing speakers. It is basically a channel based as opposed to object based system and the associated channels need to be portrayed in the manner set out by Auro. The only ceiling speaker in a home Auro setup would be a solitary Voice of God speaker at the front of the room. Both Atmos and DTS:X can utilise the height speakers in an Auro 3D setup, but Auro 3D cannot be correctly portrayed via the ceiling speakers in an Atmos setup. The VOG speaker is exclusive to Auro and cannot be itilised by either Atmos or DTS:X.


and again, this topic is relating to DTS:X and DTS do not have any preferences as to whether you use ceiling or height speakers!
 
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