Ebay 'make offer'

nvingo

Well-known Member
So I've been watching an item that had a BIN price, the listing ended;
Then the seller put it up as an auction. I bid, came second. Within hours of auction end, seller had relisted it with the original BIN price, sent me a message through Ebay offering it for slightly less but still way above the winning auction bid.
He informs me that the winning bidder pulled out - that was quick! (No alarm bells there then).

Seller/item is in Netherlands, as that's where the item was manufactured some time ago and all UK-bought ones likely to be end-of-life, probably more enthusiasts over there.

I've been negotiating through Ebay message with him, and agreed a price (nearer to the BIN than to the auction bid), obviously this is a rare item I've desired for many years.
So having agreed a price through message, I've clicked the 'submit offer' button and entered that amount. My understanding was that the seller responds and Ebay handles the transaction.

This instead is what happened:
Seller messaged me
I don't have received your PayPal information yet, send an email to (private email address, coded not to be detected by Ebay bot) please. After that I can send you a payment request.

Greetings,
To which I replied
Hi.
Strange I thought Ebay took care of offers. I submitted the offer via the item page make offer.
When you accept the offer? then Ebay makes it a 'winning bid' and then I pay?

Regards, name.
And he's come back with
Hi there,

Please send me an email, I'll explain why.

Greetings, seller id
Anyone had anything similar? Thoughts on this and advice please.
 

sergiup

Distinguished Member
Run away. Any such deals must go through ebay's proper system, you should never have to give the seller your PayPal email or anything else. Anything outside of eBay and PayPal's systems will pretty much leave you with no comeback and no protection.
Screams dodgy.
 

ssbib

Distinguished Member
100% dodgy. I’ve bought many times through offers and it’s just like a regular eBay purchase once they agree to it through the system.
 

Miss Mandy

Moderator
As already said, walk away. Bypassing the systems like this forfeits all of the protections that eBay and PayPal offer normally. It's very likely to be a scam anyway, but if it's not and it arrives damaged or doesn't arrive at all you're stuffed.
 

[email protected]

Well-known Member
100% dodgy. I’ve bought many times through offers and it’s just like a regular eBay purchase once they agree to it through the system.
Exactly this. Once you make an offer, the seller has a day or so to respond, once they accept it goes to normal 'Pay Now' through PayPal.
From the way you describe the item as being very rare, very desirable as it's something you've wanted for a long time, is there a danger this becomes a bit of a 'heart v head' situation?
If the seller isn't willing to completely follow the eBay process, then walk away.
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
The way you describe it makes it sound like an item only of interest to enthusiasts.

If that's the case then it's probably not an outright scammer but someone who's trying to circumvent ebay to get more money by not paying the fees because they think they're entitled to it.

Well, I suppose that's just a different target to the scam.
 

wiz

Distinguished Member
Run and don’t look back!
 

nvingo

Well-known Member
Yeah my orignal thinking was that the auction had been shill bid - there wasn't a 'real' bidder that won, and the message trail would reveal. Or the seller had withdrawn because it didn't make his target.

Now i think it's possible, that the winning bidder was instantly put-off by the seller seeking transaction outside of Ebay, hence pulling out.

There are another couple of this item, just that this one seemed the best condition.
it might be genuine, but as you say lacks protection (and is against ebay t&c), and is a large sum to forfeit (well a weeks wages - I don't want to work a week for nothing!)
thanks to all respondents. I won't be continuing this purchase.
 

Matt_C

Distinguished Member
Not necessarily dodgy, although it could well be. Could also just be the seller trying to circumvent eBay fees. You'd be fine to purchase outside of eBay but you'd have no protection if you send as friends and family (which if the seller is trying to circumvent fees, he'll ask you to - as he would if it was dodgy, mind). I've bought outside of eBay before, and just as I do when I buy from Facebook, I just work out the cost including the Paypal fees and send that (so for example, if the price is £120, I send £123.89) so I'm covered (keep all correspondence such as emails and/or screen shots to prove it was an agreed sale). That way if it goes south you can claim back through Paypal. I've only had to do it once - bought from Facebook, item arrived damaged (wasn't packed properly) and the seller turned into a PITA about getting it refunded through the postage insurance, so in the end I opened a case with Paypal. They just asked me to send to evidence it was a sale (screen shots of the ad on FB and of the conversation in Messenger) and a few days later I was refunded.

I've also sold outside ebay when someone wanted to buy a bunch of stuff from me but wanted a better price. At that time the £1 listings weren't very common so in order to reduce the sale enough for the buyer and for me to still make money I needed to do it outside eBay, so as to not pay the 10% fee. Buyer agreed, and I explained to him that he needs to pay the fees (add on to total cost) so he's covered for a purchase, which he did. Of course, I'm not a crook and the item arrived fine, but for the same of a few quid it gives peace of mind and insurance.
 
Circumventing fees is dodgy ;)

I had a similar thing with a Portugese seller. Same style of messages. I wanted to back out, and “weirdly” they ignored all messages through the eBay system but could message me direct. I ended up with a non payment mark, and on appeal eBay “took it away this time”.

Just don’t be taken in by the rare item. If I wanted to scam someone I’d do it with a rare item. Much easier to get people emotionally involved. And then on top of that I would ensure to transact outside the eBay system to hide my track.

Just forget about it and request it to be cancelled unless it goes through eBay.
 

nvingo

Well-known Member
So he didn't make it clear up front that he wanted the transaction to take place off Ebay.
My offer (after negotiating through Ebay messages) was made via the listing offer button, since as far as I was aware at the time, it was going through Ebay.
The offer has 'expired' now, he obviously didn't 'accept' it via Ebay, within the 24 hours.

As @Matt_C has alluded to, it can be acceptable if both parties are aware before agreeing the deal, and both parties accept the risk they're taking.

Since I was only made aware afterwards, and I'm not prepared to take that risk, for me it would have to go through an accountable intermediary.
That is what they are there for, to bring together trading strangers.

The seller has had the advantage of advertising his product to the widest audience - to the end of realising its best price, why should he then deny them their due reward.
 

temsy

Active Member
The seller has had the advantage of advertising his product to the widest audience - to the end of realising its best price, why should he then deny them their due reward.
The only other reason I can see for the seller not going ahead is he has not reached his desired price for the item, but then you go on to say you have reached a deal, maybe he just changed his mind, Come on, this is how a scam is made to look genuine, then once you have sent the payment it is too late and you look back and think why did I go ahead wen all the signs are there.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
One point of clarity. eBay no longer own PayPal - when they did they would collude so if you circumvented eBay you would get no PayPal protection.

Now if you did it, PayPal don’t need to know about it starting off as an eBay sale just that it ended up with it being a PayPal transaction - just like buying something from here. So I believe you would still be covered by PayPal protection.

Mind you, this does sound pretty dodgy, will the buyer even accept proper PayPal, I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t. That would be one of my tests. I don’t like PayPal Gift (friends and families) unless I really trust the recipient. If the seller insists on no PayPal fees, and I still want the item, I use one of the online calculators to work out the increased sum I should send so that the seller receives the agreed price after fees are taken.

Devil’s advocate. Say the seller withdraws the item from eBay (accepting whatever slap on the wrist that eBay hand out) and then advertises it on AVF. The buyer then pays using full blown PayPal. What would people here think of that scenario? Dodgy? Risky?

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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temsy

Active Member
I would deem it risky, the only reason being the item is not UK, I think it is because in the early days PayPal protection only covered UK, I assume every transaction abroad is risky. If once negotiating, requests for payments to be made ‘friends & family’ and I felt I was getting ‘messed about’ I would walk away.
 

MarkyPancake

Distinguished Member
If they're trying to circumvent the system they've used to advertise and sell the item, I would walk away.

ebay used to scan messages for email addresses and would remove them, as a way to keep the conversation within their own message system. Makes sense for when disputes arise.
 

Thug

Moderator
If that happened to me,then the only way I would go ahead with it is if they send the item first.
eBay gives protection to both buyer and seller and if one party wants to trade away from that then they should do it on the other parties terms.
 

MrSossidge

Distinguished Member
Can you not trade via Paypal and use Goods and Services. I can understand wanting to circumvent ebay for a higher value item as the fees are awful.
 

Gaslight

Well-known Member
He's just attempting to avoid eBay fees to give you the discount. Fairly common, they do rape you for 10%+ in some categories.

I do it quite often, and sometimes even requested by the buyer, as I give eBay enough on my business accounts. All my buyers are fine with it.

You will pay directly with PayPal and thus gain your PayPal Buyer Protection.

Just dont pay as a Friends and Family payment, and you'll be fine if anything goes wrong.
 
He's just attempting to avoid eBay fees to give you the discount. Fairly common, they do rape you for 10%+ in some categories.

I do it quite often, and sometimes even requested by the buyer, as I give eBay enough on my business accounts. All my buyers are fine with it.

You will pay directly with PayPal and thus gain your PayPal Buyer Protection.

Just dont pay as a Friends and Family payment, and you'll be fine if anything goes wrong.
I’d never trust a dishonest seller, nor dishonest buyer.

Interesting how you openly admit to fiddle the system and entice your customers to go outside the system. I would cancel and report you instantly.
 

Gaslight

Well-known Member
I’d never trust a dishonest seller, nor dishonest buyer.

Interesting how you openly admit to fiddle the system and entice your customers to go outside the system. I would cancel and report you instantly.
Yes its true, in the same vain that eBay have taken thousands off me by 'fiddling' the law with their returns and INR policies (it isn't called Freebay for nothing), so this is my little bit of retribution when I have a customer happy to make a deal and get a reduced price on my private account and a private sale.

So while you don't 'trust' dishonesty, you use eBay, a dishonest company. Oh the irony.

However my fees to ebay run into 30k a year. So they make enough out of me...soon to be even more when Ayden take over payment processing.
 
Yes its true, in the same vain that eBay have taken thousands off me by 'fiddling' the law with their returns and INR policies (it isn't called Freebay for nothing), so this is my little bit of retribution when I have a customer happy to make a deal and get a reduced price on my private account and a private sale.

So while you don't 'trust' dishonesty, you use eBay, a dishonest company. Oh the irony.

However my fees to ebay run into 30k a year. So they make enough out of me...soon to be even more when Ayden take over payment processing.
There is no irony there at all, eBay is not the one encouraging customers to complete the transaction outside their platform.

Anyway, do as you please. If you tried that with me as a buyer I report you immediately and don't about it a second time.
 

Gaslight

Well-known Member
There is no irony there at all, eBay is not the one encouraging customers to complete the transaction outside their platform.

Anyway, do as you please. If you tried that with me as a buyer I report you immediately and don't about it a second time.
No, but for example, today eBay gave away £200 worth of refunds to buyers who returned an empty box to me. Common occurrence (amongst many similar tricks)

The irony of who is trustworthy is very much there.

As, you have little knowledge of eBay and its inner workings, and indeed the frustrations of many sellers, you should operate how you want to, and I will how I choose to. But I do enjoy the 'oh i'll report you cry cry' thing, funny, it's a bit like being at school, we had a kid that smelled pretty bad and no one really liked because he got his kicks for doing similar things as this. I remember him. He actually taught me a lot about life that kid did though.
 
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