Editor's Choice Awards – Best TVs 2018 - article discussion

Mention him all you like, but it doesn't mean he is right, it's his opinion.

Its a list of the best products based on what I have tested here and in comparison with each other. I don't know of any other reviewer who has 5 TVs available for instant side by side comparisons, so we are not going by memory of what a certain TV looked like when it was in for review, we have it here to actually compare.
I happen to think Sony dropped the ball this year by reducing the available processing on the AF9 and ZF9 compared to the others, and out of those, I think the Philips was best, with actual side by side testing. You are free to disagree because someone said differently in a video somewhere or on the internet, it's a free world and you can pick and choose what you want to believe, or better still, go and see for yourself.
It's a list on the internet, people are not going to agree 100% on our results and I accept that. But please don't dismiss the effort that goes into these things.


What do you mean by "I happen to think Sony dropped the ball this year by reducing the available processing on the AF9 and ZF9 compared to the others..."

Are you suggesting Sony limited the processing power on the X1 Ultimate Chip?
With all due respect Ive never heard a Sony review get criticized for their processing.

I thought the Sony A9F had the best Dynamic Tone Mapping and the smoothest gradients out of all the OLEDs.
 
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Don’t you guys in AVFORUMS ever rest. So many Reviews. Hope Management and/or Clients appreciate it.

Impossible, as we are soon going to see our reviewers reporting from Texas and us peasants continuing to speculate, praise and whinge. It will go on and on until all of us are decimated by Thanos lol.
 
You can't really go wrong with any of the TV choices on this list. Owning any is going to give you a great experience and brilliant picture quality. Also the people questioning the choice's should understand that this is the "editors" choice awards and all these TV's have been seen and evaluated by the editors of this website so saying so and so says different or this review says different should be completely irrelevant as the people choosing these TV have reviewed every single one of them and this is there opinion.

OLED are all so close in picture anyway which is both a good and bad thing. Its good that there all of a high quality but at the same time I wish there was bigger differences between them.

While the Q900R is listed as the best HDR TV I would also say its probably the most unrealistic buy just because of the cost but if you can afford it and want a top LCD the HDR is gorgeous on it.
 
Yes i am looking forward to the announcements really want to buy into 4K next year. Just hoping Panasonic include Dolby Vision despite LG having more features, better interface, i only have interests in movies.

If you think the Panasonic is the only model which will make movies look fantastic then...well, I'd argue you'll get pretty much the same experience whichever one you pick.

There's way too much emphasis on minor points around here...
 
What do you mean by "I happen to think Sony dropped the ball this year by reducing the available processing on the AF9 and ZF9 compared to the others..."
From my ZF9 review
We did note that, with some text on video test scenes and news tickers, there are a few issues with the processing failing to lock with some content and causing stuttering and tearing of text. With interlaced content, we have fewer selections available in film mode than we used to have, so it is either on or off. If you watch a lot of news channels you may find the off position works better for you. We are not sure why Sony changed this when it worked flawlessly on other X1 chips in the past.
From my AF9 review
Almost all our tests passed with flying colours, although we did catch some issues with text scrolling on video content in test scenes and with news channel ticker tapes. This is due to the fact that the Film mode setting is auto or off in the menu, doing away with the low, medium and high stages seen on the AF8. This is what causes some slight issues while the processing decides what it is going to do. Switching Film mode off will get around the issue with text on video, but you may then see issues with interlaced material as a result, so you will need to decide which is the lesser evil of two, not perfect, choices. We are not sure why Sony would change the Film mode settings when they worked well in previous X1 chips.
Hope that clears it up. I'm not the only reviewer to bring this up, but others missed it.
 
OLED are all so close in picture anyway which is both a good and bad thing. Its good that there all of a high quality but at the same time I wish there was bigger differences between them.
This is very true. Those who were at the Philips Shootout will back up the fact that when calibrated there is very little between these sets in terms of performance.
Things that are highlighted as a difference between sets in reviews suddenly get magnified way beyond reason in the forum discussion here and elsewhere. So much so those little things like a set not quite tracking the PQ EOTF properly get blown up as an issue when those making the noise on the internet don't actually know what that looks like onscreen with normal viewing material. It means that it is slightly brighter if above and darker if below, but that is almost unnoticeable as it doesn't cause any major issues with the actual image onscreen. But read some comments and you would think it is the end of the world. (Following our reviews any issues where we feel the manufacturer could do better are fed back to them directly).

Sometimes we need to temper expectation levels and make sure that what is being said in a review is actually understood and not blown out of proportion. With this years OLED TVs there are very little differences and any of them will give you an excellent starting point, you just need to decide on the features you want.
 
What do you mean by "I happen to think Sony dropped the ball this year by reducing the available processing on the AF9 and ZF9 compared to the others..."

Are you suggesting Sony limited the processing power on the X1 Ultimate Chip?
With all due respect Ive never heard a Sony review get criticized for their processing.

I thought the Sony A9F had the best Dynamic Tone Mapping and the smoothest gradients out of all the OLEDs.
I agree The AF9 got a 10 for processing when reviewed. Apart from the text issue no tv us perfect the Sony has the best processing for me i have seen it in action so i was surprised to see the Philips over the Sony.
 
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I agree The AF9 got a 10 for processing when reviewed. Apart from the text issue no tv us perfect the Sony has the best processing for me i have seen it in action so i was surprised to see the Philips over the Sony.
Perfectly highlights my comments above. Do you think being the author of those reviews and this editor's choice, that I might know what I mean? You are of course entitled to your opinion, but please don't try and make out there is something wrong with mine. It is more than just a text issue, it affects fine line detail in interlaced content and can introduce jaggies. This points to understanding what is actually being said, not what you think.
 
diagnosticz said:
So all those issues then why the 10 ?
It's not it is a 9, however, I have just noticed that the AF9 score was wrong, it has been corrected so thanks for pointing it out. (The ZF9 was correct).
 
Perfectly highlights my comments above. Do you think being the author of those reviews and this editor's choice, that I might know what I mean? You are of course entitled to your opinion, but please don't try and make out there is something wrong with mine. It is more than just a text issue, it affects fine line detail in interlaced content and can introduce jaggies. This points to understanding what is actually being said, not what you think.

So all those issues then why the 10 ? If you think i am knocking your review then you got me wrong, it did not even cross my mind. Like you said it is my opinion so i don't know why you are getting defensive and aggressive about it. We are simply having discussions and peoples onions will differ which happens a lot on here
 
why you are getting defensive and aggressive about it
I'm not, I am pointing out flaws in your suggestions. That is debate, not being defensive and certainly not being aggressive. If you want to cast doubt, I am going to point out where I think you don't appreciate what is being said in the review and article. You appeared to try and brush it off as 'just' a text issue, which is why I pointed out it is more than just that. I've also been here since 2001 so I know how a forum works ;) :laugh:
 
I'm not, I am pointing out flaws in your suggestions. That is debate, not being defensive and certainly not being aggressive. If you want to cast doubt, I am going to point out where I think you don't appreciate what is being said in the review and article. You appeared to try and brush it off as 'just' a text issue, which is why I pointed out it is more than just that. I've also been here since 2001 so I know how a forum works ;) :laugh:
Was not my intention to undermine your review So i apologise if you thought that. The discussion was not about how the forum works but about the tv performance As You have mentioned yiu have changed the score to a 9 from 10 so you can understand mine and maybe others Confusions. All good.
 
Thank you for your input and stirling reviews Phil, I am in the market for a new 4K and was heading towards the B8 but may dig a little deeper now for the C8
 
I wouldn't worry much about HDR10+, I might be missing something but I really can't see it becoming relevant. Too little support when Dolby Vision has already garnered a lot. Bearing in mind that both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision have fallback compatibility with "regular" HDR10, going with Dolby Vision allows one to lose out the least. IMHO, clearly. :)
 
10 TVs which include one or more from every major manufacturer just seems like a keep everyone happy name check to me...……………………….At least CELLO didn't get an award
 
Great selection on choice of winners- especially the LG C8 PLA awarded as Best all rounder - I pick up the 65 inch one with a W7 speaker for less than 2,120 pounds even after Black Friday.
Best price and performance deal!
After the recent Philips Oled shoot out event I attended - seeing the Q9FN vs Philips 903 - it left a seed of doubt over the Q9FN(EOTF tracking can over expose highlights compared with the ZD9; specular highlights can be dimmer than on Oled as shown at the shoot out event -when black levels predominate) and even though I didn't give the C8 my vote in the main shoot out - but on aesthetics,performance and price I couldn't pick another TV than the C8.Gaming response top notch and a120hz refresh.
LG are also quick to fix bugs and the recent firmware ABL upgrade make it even better.
What Hi Fi loved the C8 over the Q9FN but only just in their tighly contested review and I tussled over the two in similar fashion.
LG C8 is the Best all rounder.Best Price.
With the LG WebOS interface and a really high quality looking shape to your hand bulbous remote over the ugly Panasonic and Sony rubber remote - Xxtra reward points for LG.
 
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Great selection of choice of winners- the LG C8 PLA awarded as best all rounder - I pick up the 65 inch one with a W7 speaker for less than 2,120 pounds even after Black Friday.
Best price and performance deal!
After the Philips shoot out event I attended seeing the Q9FN vs Philips 903 - it set a seed of doubt over the Q9FN(EOTF tracking can over expose highlights compared with the ZD9; specular highlights can be dimmer than on Oled as shown at the shot out event -when black levels predominate) and even though I didn't give the C8 my vote in the main shot out - but on aesthetics,performance and price I couldn't pick another TV than the C8.Gaming response top notch and 120hz refresh.
LG are also quick to fix bugs and the recent firmware ABLupgrade make it even better.
What Hi Fi loved the C8 over the Q9FN but only just in their tighly contested review and I tussle over the two in similar fashion.
LG C8 is the Best all rounder.Best Price.
With the LG WebOS interface thrown in and really high quality looking shape to your hand bulbous remote over the ugly Panasonic and Sony rubber, remote - Xxtra reward points for LG.

You got a great price £2,120 for a (LG 65OLEDC8 + W7 Speaker).
From where?
 
I had the Philips 9664, brilliant telly and still doing sterling service with a relative. But the money we paid to replace it with a 55" LG C6 was some of the best we've ever spent.

Saying that the picture difference is night and day doesn't come close. Didn't realise just how milky the 9664 picture was until I saw a space scene on the OLED.

Pretty sure the footprint is near as damn it the same too given the bezel width on the 9664 and the total lack thereof on the LG, hence 55" screen in same slot as 47" previously.

I've not seen anything regarding formats to concern me. HDR10+ seems to be a response to DV, sans hefty license fee, and I understand the new LG models do some clever dynamic HDR10 thing, which is what HDR10+ and DV do? My C6 doesn't have the dynamic HDR10 feature and HDR10 looks amazing, HLG on iPlayer looks amazing and DV looks amazing so I'm happy.

If I still had the 9664 I'd pick up a bargain LG B8 and never look back. Just my two penneth and YMMV of course.
Good to hear of another 9664 still doing the business. I do sometimes wonder when on one hand you are told that it does not have this or that and then the next minute told keep the picture as natural as possible which is in reality the opposite of all this processing that goes on.
 
Great article, Phil. As a regular listener to the podcast it’s clear why so many different TVs have won awards. There have been so many great TVs this year, each with their own strengths and shortcomings, that I really don’t think anyone could go wrong with any TV from the list. However, as you’ll be fully aware, many people get defensive about their purchasing decisions and feel they need to back-up their choices or bash other TVs to justify why their TV is superior. Just enjoy what you’ve bought and let other people do the same. It’s never been a better time for TVs.
 
This is based on what we have reviewed in 2018, although we do mention that the 65-inch F952 we did review, is the same TV but with the soundbar. 65-inch being a minimum is your opinion and we always say get the biggest screen you can, but many users will be stuck at just how large they can go because of the room sizes in UK homes. So we try to be balanced.

Sharp and Toshiba have had commercial screens available, but not through consumer channels and not with the processing development that Samsung has introduced. If they stick to what they have promised it should add up to serious improvements in image quality during the life of those products - we shall see, but it is a good start. We have also not reviewed the Sharp and Toshiba and our awards are based only on what we have seen.

Thanks for your comments.

Sorry, but I have to agree with Abacus: the category was 'Home Cinema TV', not 'Best All Round' or 'Best for average UK lounge' category? But kudos to your considered response.
 
I might consider a new TV but every review I read has caveats as regards what it can process. This one lacks DV, that one lacks HDR10+ etc etc. I do not change my TV often to say the least. Currently using a Philips 47PFL9664H some 8 yrs old and still going strong. I think the PQ on it is superior to a lot of todays current sets. So if I am to go for a new tv, purely a size requirement, I need something future proofed which does not make for an easy choice.

You don't really need to concern yourself with 'a lot of TVs', just the best/your shortlist, which I can't believe your Philips can really compare to.

If you're largely happy with an 8yo TV that meets none of the modern day requirements, if you're upgrading purely for size reasons, do you really need a TV that fits all possible current requirements (if such a thing existed)?
 
This is very true. Those who were at the Philips Shootout will back up the fact that when calibrated there is very little between these sets in terms of performance.
Things that are highlighted as a difference between sets in reviews suddenly get magnified way beyond reason in the forum discussion here and elsewhere. So much so those little things like a set not quite tracking the PQ EOTF properly get blown up as an issue when those making the noise on the internet don't actually know what that looks like onscreen with normal viewing material. It means that it is slightly brighter if above and darker if below, but that is almost unnoticeable as it doesn't cause any major issues with the actual image onscreen. But read some comments and you would think it is the end of the world. (Following our reviews any issues where we feel the manufacturer could do better are fed back to them directly).

Sometimes we need to temper expectation levels and make sure that what is being said in a review is actually understood and not blown out of proportion. With this years OLED TVs there are very little differences and any of them will give you an excellent starting point, you just need to decide on the features you want.

I understand that on this review site some of the main reviewers are professional calibrators but do you think more focus should be put on out of the box accuracy and what a brand is doing to insure a buyer is getting quality product out of the box??

The Sony AF9 OLED and Panasonic OLEDs seem much better than the SONY AF8 and LG OLEDs in this regard and just because you can pay a calibrator to get your LG close to the accuracy of a Panasonic doesn't mean you should have to imo.

Also it seems the inbuilt tuners, PVR functionality and other such features are lost on AVFORUMs aswell and hardly gets a mention
 
May I just check something?

re: "The Panasonic FZ802 55 inch is the entry point OLED TV from the Japanese manufacturer for 2018. It uses the same OLED panel, HCX processor and operating system as the TX-65FZ952 and... "

Is that saying that the 55" uses a panel with identical specifications from the same manufacturer as that used within the 65"?

It could be read as the 55" uses exactly the same panel as the 65", which would imply the 55" has a massive bezel hiding the remaining area of the 65" panel :D lol
 
May I just check something?

re: "The Panasonic FZ802 55 inch is the entry point OLED TV from the Japanese manufacturer for 2018. It uses the same OLED panel, HCX processor and operating system as the TX-65FZ952 and... "

Is that saying that the 55" uses a panel with identical specifications from the same manufacturer as that used within the 65"?

It could be read as the 55" uses exactly the same panel as the 65", which would imply the 55" has a massive bezel hiding the remaining area of the 65" panel :D lol
Don’t be silly. It is a 65” panel, but they cut it down to size with a bandsaw.
 
Great review Phil , I’m looking to get New TV in Jan and have settled on the SS Q9 65 inch due to young kids in the house , screen burn potential etc

Looks like the above is the best of them all .

Thanks
 

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