Finally time to move from standard 5.1dd/dts to HD dd/dts master audio surround sound

nero0410

Distinguished Member
Hello, my name it Tristan, and I'm not an av addict :rolleyes:

Last time I was asking for advice here on the amp and recievers forum, it was to upgrade from a sony amp (that I couldn't stand) to a second hand amp from the forum that I paid about £160 for (a Yamaha dsp-ax750se.)

There is nothing wrong at all with my current amp (will probably sell this one on, as I don't thin the wife wants one in the bedroom), but since I have bought it I have bought a new sub, upgraded from a *cough* gale storm sub *cough* to a Mordaunt Short 309i, which I am still very happy with.
I was bought a PS3 and for christmas, and through out the two years I sold and traded half my dvd collection in order to build a blu ray collection.

Here is my current speaker setup:

mission 772 speakers - main left and right
mission 77c center speaker - centre
mordaunt short msb20 rear speakers - rear surround
mordaunt short 309i - sub

and a list of what I will have running through it:
Xbox 360 (gaming, hdmi)
Nintendo Wii (gaming, composite video)
Playstation 3 (gaming and blu ray, hdmi)
PSP (gaming, component)
Sky+ (s-video or composite, though s-video seems to be missing on amps by the looks of things so composite my only choice?)
Pioneer DV-575A dvd player (component)
HTPC (dvi/d - hdmi)

As usual I have been saving a while now and my budget is going to be £300, give or take say £50.
The primary use for the amp would be for blu ray movies followed by gaming and occasionally music. So I am wanting the best performing amp for movies and gaming opposed to music, as I don't listen to music very much at all.

I have been reading about a lot, and found that the following amps seem to be the best bet in my situation....

Onkyo 607 -
Onkyo TXSR607 Black | AV Receiver With HDMI Interface | Richer Sounds

and

Yamaha 765 -
Yamaha RXV765 | AV Receiver With HDMI Interface | Richer Sounds

Neither of the amps seem to have an impedence switch that I can see, so for future reference is it possible to mix impedences?
(say 8ohm centre, 6ohm front left and right, 8 ohm back etc....) Think the sub is 6ohm, but dont think that matters as it has its own built in amp.
As my speakers will end up being replaced eventually, but I'm sure I can squeeze more life out of them with a new amp as I have done for the 7+ years that I have owned them, and there still going strong :smashin:

I haven't included the sony around the same price as there is something about the sony's sound that I don't like, and heard that sony's can have handshake issues with the HDMI.

I have come to understand that people are beginning to call thing's bright, warm and neutral.
So would that then make the Onkyo not a good match for my 77 series missions?
Where would it leave the mordaunt short rear's?
(not sure if those are meant to be bright, neutral or warm. At a guess I'd say they sound bright as there seems to be an emphesis on the higher frequencies)
As I have read that mission speakers are regarded to as bright.

As for 3D, I haven't even managed to afford a 1080p projector yet (or tv come to that), let alone think about adopting into 3D. So I'm sure an amp capable of 1080p via HDMI would be most sufficiant for the next few years.

I'm guessing that I may get away with the onkyo since it's mainly movies, though glass shattering for example may be a little harsh on the ears if it end up being too bright.
I do like the sound from my yamaha, and yamaha's I have owned in the past. So this may be a good choice.

I'm in a bit of a dilamma and hoping for some advice as I have no option to demo any of these amps as I am unable to get to somewhere for a demo and I'd need to hear it with my speakers, as newer speaker setups are going to sound ver different not being 'worn in' etc....

So would these amps be the best choices for my budget?
Which would best match my speakers for HD movie sound?

Would appriciate any and all advice

Thanks

tris
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
The mission speakers are regarded as bright sounding, as are Mordaunt Short speakers.

That makes the warm natured Yamaha 765 the obvious choice IMHO, especially as you're used to and like the yamaha sound.

You will have no problems running the different inpedance speakers with the 765.

The yamaha's usually have a 6/8 ohm selection in the menu, but if your speakers are at least 6 ohms, i'd leave it on the 8 ohm position. I run both my Yamaha amps set at 8 ohms even though the speakers are rated as 4-8 (MS speakers) 6 ohm (MA Speakers).
 

nero0410

Distinguished Member
So I am presuming that I am likely to hear a difference between my current amp and the 765 via HD audio?

Is there likely to be any lipsync problems etc....?

I probably have a few questions that I can't think of at this time, but I'm hoping that the HD sound is of much better quality and worth the upgrade :)

Thanks

tris
 

deckingman

Novice Member
So I am presuming that I am likely to hear a difference between my current amp and the 765 via HD audio?

Is there likely to be any lipsync problems etc....?

I probably have a few questions that I can't think of at this time, but I'm hoping that the HD sound is of much better quality and worth the upgrade :)

Thanks

tris
You'll likely hear a difference because of the change in amp. However, don't get hung up about HD audio per se. The only thing that will give you HD Audio is the Blu Ray player (which you don't yet have).
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
So I am presuming that I am likely to hear a difference between my current amp and the 765 via HD audio?

Is there likely to be any lipsync problems etc....?

I probably have a few questions that I can't think of at this time, but I'm hoping that the HD sound is of much better quality and worth the upgrade :)

Thanks

tris
There is a difference between non HD audio and HD audio. it's not night and day and to a certain extent depends on the whole amp/speaker chain as to how much of an improvment you get.

HDMI has auto lipsync as a setting, but all the devices in the chain have to have it.

All I can say is that I don't have any lipsync problems at all. That includes the equipment with HDMI connections and analogue video sources going in via component with optical/coaxial audio connections. Yamaha amps have a variable lipsync delay setting, but I've always had it set a zero. The TV you have will play a part in this.
 

nero0410

Distinguished Member
You'll likely hear a difference because of the change in amp. However, don't get hung up about HD audio per se. The only thing that will give you HD Audio is the Blu Ray player (which you don't yet have).
So the PS3 (which I use to play my blu rays) doesn't output Dolby True HD / DTS Master Audio then?
I thought it did?

There is a difference between non HD audio and HD audio. it's not night and day and to a certain extent depends on the whole amp/speaker chain as to how much of an improvment you get.

HDMI has auto lipsync as a setting, but all the devices in the chain have to have it.

All I can say is that I don't have any lipsync problems at all. That includes the equipment with HDMI connections and analogue video sources going in via component with optical/coaxial audio connections. Yamaha amps have a variable lipsync delay setting, but I've always had it set a zero. The TV you have will play a part in this.
I expect that Yamaha have improved slightly since my amp model, and the HD audio will probably be more noticeable to me as I do have reasonably fined tuned ears.
I'm guessing it might improve the centre channel volume a little, or maybe not. Seems to be the only channel that I have problems with with quiet talking scenes in films.

Out of interest, can equiptment connected to the composite and component video inputs also be output by HDMI?
(only having the HDMI cable to the tv with all being straight/upconverted to it)

I run my ps3 via a HDMI to DVI-D connection on my tv, as my tv doesn't have any HDMI inputs.
I understand that this doesn't give me the ability to have sound, but when I get the new amp I'll use that for the sound via HDMI I presume, not needing an optical cable?
Just having the HDMI cable going to the amp, then the tv/projector. May have to get a switch so I can just switch from the HDMI out to the tv/projector. I presume there is no loss in quality with a switch as in:
ps3 - to - amp - to - switch - to - tv/projector (if you see what I mean)
??

Sorry about all the questions, just getting it all out the way so I can get my head around things.

Cheers

tris
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
So the PS3 (which I use to play my blu rays) doesn't output Dolby True HD / DTS Master Audio then?
I thought it did?
The new slim PS3 does, but the previous one doesn't send bitstreamed HD audio. You have to get the PS3 to decode it and then it sends it as LPCM. It is still HD audio, but your amp will show 'PCM'. This only applies to HD audio; it can send bitstreamed regular DTS/DD.



Out of interest, can equiptment connected to the composite and component video inputs also be output by HDMI?
(only having the HDMI cable to the tv with all being straight/upconverted to it)
Yamaha models from the 565 upwards have video upconversion and will do that

I run my ps3 via a HDMI to DVI-D connection on my tv, as my tv doesn't have any HDMI inputs.
I understand that this doesn't give me the ability to have sound, but when I get the new amp I'll use that for the sound via HDMI I presume, not needing an optical cable?
you won't need an optical connection, the PS3 will send audio and video to the amp via HDMI.

Just having the HDMI cable going to the amp, then the tv/projector. May have to get a switch so I can just switch from the HDMI out to the tv/projector. I presume there is no loss in quality with a switch as in:
ps3 - to - amp - to - switch - to - tv/projector (if you see what I mean)
??
Just one thing worth checking is that the Yamaha amp is happy with a HDMI to DVI connection from amp to TV. I think I've read that Sony amps can sometimes have a problem with that (though it is possible I've got that wrong) and it would be worth checking the yamaha amp is OK with such a connection.
 

nero0410

Distinguished Member
The new slim PS3 does, but the previous one doesn't send bitstreamed HD audio. You have to get the PS3 to decode it and then it sends it as LPCM. It is still HD audio, but your amp will show 'PCM'. This only applies to HD audio; it can send bitstreamed regular DTS/DD.
It is a later model of PS3 Slim, as I only adopted into PS3 in the last year or so to use that instead of my pc for Bluray (less noise).
So I'm presuming that the LPCM/Btistreaming is still going to be Dolby TruHD and DTS Master Audio though it won't state this on the amp?

Yamaha models from the 565 upwards have video upconversion and will do that
That will ve very handy, as I'll be able to get rid of quite a few wires from the mess I have down the back of my cabinet.

you won't need an optical connection, the PS3 will send audio and video to the amp via HDMI.
Again all good, less wireing.

Just one thing worth checking is that the Yamaha amp is happy with a HDMI to DVI connection from amp to TV. I think I've read that Sony amps can sometimes have a problem with that (though it is possible I've got that wrong) and it would be worth checking the yamaha amp is OK with such a connection.
I have had a google, and searched the forum a bit to no avail, so I'll have to put a post up on the owners thread to see if anyone has had to go this way too. I'll do that shortly, going to have more of a search around first.

Cheers

tris
 

Indiana Jones

Moderator
It is a later model of PS3 Slim, as I only adopted into PS3 in the last year or so to use that instead of my pc for Bluray (less noise).
So I'm presuming that the LPCM/Btistreaming is still going to be Dolby TruHD and DTS Master Audio though it won't state this on the amp?
Just set the PS3 to Bitstream and it will sent the HD audio untouched to the amp for it to process.
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
It is a later model of PS3 Slim, as I only adopted into PS3 in the last year or so to use that instead of my pc for Bluray (less noise).
So I'm presuming that the LPCM/Btistreaming is still going to be Dolby TruHD and DTS Master Audio though it won't state this on the amp?
The PS3 Slim will send HD audio as bitstream and your amp will display 'Dolby True HD' or 'DTS MASTR' on the display (if the blueray disc has one or the other).

The older version of the PS3 will display PCM on the amp
 

nero0410

Distinguished Member
Just set the PS3 to Bitstream and it will sent the HD audio untouched to the amp for it to process.
I think that is what I have my PS3 set up as anyway, and I get dd/dts etc.... so I'm presuming it will be fine.

The PS3 Slim will send HD audio as bitstream and your amp will display 'Dolby True HD' or 'DTS MASTR' on the display (if the blueray disc has one or the other).

The older version of the PS3 will display PCM on the amp
I have the newer slim, so all will display on the amp fine then :)

........

I asked about the HDMI-dvi-d issue I'll have here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-a...aha-rx-v765-owners-thread-7.html#post12423109

And ended up getting advice to but a different amp, doubleing my budget. But as explained in that thread:
I don't have a very big income and can only afford to buy an amp for £300-400 at the absolute max.
I'm not sure buying one at £400 is a wise choice, as I'd likely be paying for the 'newer' but lower model
I'm only shopping at richer sounds as I always have (and get a free mug to annoy the wife with), and don't want to 'overpower' my current speakers, as they will still be with me for some time yet I hope (especially the surrounds, as I haven't found any bi poles that are affordable, only paid £99.99 for mine quite a few years ago now brand new), but speaker talk is for another thread, sometime after I have bought an amp :)

And please remember, I'm mainly only interested in an amp that will be the best for the money for movies and some gaming, not so much music, and will match my speakers for such purpose.
And anything else I could take into consideration?
(3D way out of my league it seems until it becomes 'affordable' to everyone, and then I'd only be interested in a projector if it gets to about £600, so a very long way off yet)

Cheers

tris
 

Dfour

Well-known Member
I would definatly avoid amps like sony, onkyo and pioneer with the speakers you own as the treble could become sharp and piercing and fatigueing to listen to. They 765 would be a good choise and unless you can find them second hand (one sold for £180 her this week) I wouldnt wait arround to long as stock will dissapear soon.
 

Passingbat

Distinguished Member
I don't know if Richer sounds have stock of the 765, but if not, you can get it from here for £350 inc. delivery.

They're a good dealer --- both AV amps and sets of speakers in my sig have been bought from them.


Yamaha RXV765

As has been said, stocks of the 765 will soon dissapear.
 

Dfour

Well-known Member
I don't know if Richer sounds have stock of the 765, but if not, you can get it from here for £350 inc. delivery.

They're a good dealer --- both AV amps and sets of speakers in my sig have been bought from them.


Yamaha RXV765

As has been said, stocks of the 765 will soon dissapear.
+1 for peter tyson
 

logiciel

Moderator
To put a word in for the Onkyo 607 - or the 507 - they will cover all you're looking for as far as I can make out.
 

Dfour

Well-known Member
To put a word in for the Onkyo 607 - or the 507 - they will cover all you're looking for as far as I can make out.
No one is saying the onkyo is a bad amp its just not a good choice to go with his speakers.
 

nero0410

Distinguished Member
Well I'm still looking about again as I have not managed to save the money in time before the stock went from Richer sounds, and I still have a bit more saving to do so I will most likely miss the stock from Peter Tyson too.

So I'll continue saving a little more (plus I have now found a buyer for my old amp who will buy it about mid july), are there anymore recommendations on any amps that are most likely to be in stock anywhere that would be good to conisder?
Say by the end of July.
Budget will be about £450, and I really can't afford much higher at all, maybe another £50 at a push. Just really wished I could have not missed the 765 for £299, as that would have been great.
Guess I'm likely to get better now, or at least just as good seeing the 667 is just around the corner wither newer components 767 is way out in the clouds for me.
Also shame the onkyo wont match my speakers as the 607 still seems readly available.
Not sure if a Denon is a good choice, as I believe these are warm natured too?

Really any suggestions and advice would be great.

Thanks again

tris
 
Last edited:

PSM1

Distinguished Member
Denon would be a good choice and the new 1911 should be available by then and be around your budget.
 

nero0410

Distinguished Member
Well I got a bit fed up of messing about and waiting for another model to come, then another....so I managed to borrow the rest and order the Yammy 765 from Peter Tyson :smashin:

Should be here friday, so I'll have fun setting it up then (followed by setting up my old amp at my mates :rolleyes:)

I know the 667 and 767 are on their way, but I couldn't afford the 767 and the 765 seems to be a slightly better amp than the 667, at least best value for the money so I hope I have made the right choice?
Bearing in mind that I'm a long way off ever affording 3D capable tv and projector, and there are ways round it anyway for future ref so no problems there.

tris

EDIT:
Not sure if I'll need to update the RXV765 when it arrives, but I have downloaded instructions and the update it's self, and thought I'd link them ifor if anyone need them:
info:
http://www.whathifi.com/news/UPDATED-Yamahas-firmware-fix-for-2009-AV-receiver-range-goes-live/
instructions:
http://development.lightmaker.com/yamaha_audio/downloads/software/firmware/instruction.pdf
download:
http://development.lightmaker.com/yamaha_audio/downloads/software/firmware/
Addendum:
http://development.lightmaker.com/yamaha_audio/downloads/software/firmware/Addendum for RX-V765.pdf
 
Last edited:

nero0410

Distinguished Member
My 765 arrived today :clap:

Only had a listen to some tv channel's, radio channels, quick bash at a ps3 game and the beginning of Armageddon followed by the beginning of Gladiator on Blu Ray.
So far I am very pleased, the difference in the depth of the sound from all source's sounded more or less like night and day for me from the older amp, even my practically tone deaf mate managed to hear the difference, so a new yamaha amp has yet again breathed new life into my 7ish year old speakers and brought them back to life :)

I still have some questions, but I'll ask them in the owner's thread :thumbsup:

Thanks again for all the advice, and a +1 for Peter Tyson :smashin:

tris
 

Dfour

Well-known Member
Nice one glad your happy with the amp. :)
 

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