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Answered Help verifying Crossover levels on AVR-X3600H

Daskew78

Active Member
Hi,

I had someone come out and setup my last AVR and forgot to note down the settings before I sold it on and bought the new one so need a little help please. I realise there's a thread about this and I have read it which helped me get to these settings but it would be nice if I could get some confirmation I've set it up correctly or not?

I have the new Denon AVR-X3500H with a Dahli 12" Sub and 7 x Gallo Micro SE speakers. 4 in the corners of the rooms, 1 on the centre of the TV stand and 2 in the ceiling for Atmos.

The Gallo Micro SE speaker specs are:
On wall or floor stand: 100Hz to 22Khz
Isolation ring or table stand: 120Hz to 22Khz

So I have set the centre speaker on the TV stand to 120Hz as the next level up is 150Hz or 110Hz down. I have set all others to 110Hz as they are mounted on the wall.

The Sub I have set to LFR+Main and 110Hz. The sub is also plugged into the LFE port.

Can someone just verify these settings are correct please?

Thanks.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Run Audyssey. Let it decide what the crossovers should be. Remember to set all speakers to small after calibration.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I'd suggest that you initially run the auto calibration using the supplied mic and let this measure the roll off of your speakers before manually configuring the bass management. I suggest this because the actual measured roll off is not always in alienment with what a speaker manufacturer suggests it is or should be. Your room's accoustics and the locations of the speakers within that room can also effect the frequencies you'd get from them.

Post running the calibration, set all speakers as being SMALL and do not set any of the crossovers lower than the frequency roll offs measure during the calibration.

I'd suggest not setting any of the crossovers lower than 120Hz in association with the speakers you have, but you may find that you may have to leave some of them set higher than this depending upon the measured responses during the calibration?

Set the sub to just LFE as opposed to LFE + MAIN. Your main speakers are not full range and even if they were, you'd be increasing the chances of bass boom if using the LFE + MAIN option as opposed to the LFE option. The sub has no crossover and the filter on the receiver for the subis a low pass filter that only effects the LFE channel if present. THis should always be set to the default 120Hz because 120Hz is the ceiling for the LFE channel in association with Do;by encoded audio. Set it below this and you'll either be discarding aspects of the LFE channel or you'll be effecting its roll off in a manner that wasn't intended by whoever mixed it.

The sub itself need to be set up as follows prior to running the calibration:
Set it's filter to the highest setting it allows or set it to LFE
Set phase to 0°
Set the sub's gain/volume to about one third and no higher than half way
 

Daskew78

Active Member
Hi Guys,

I did run the setup and it set them all to small speakers itself.

However, it set the centre speaker as high as 150Hz and the others at different levels so I was unsure if this was correct? So i'm still unsure if I should be altering this post calibration or accepting the values it sets itself?

The sub, I've now set to LFE only and phase was already on 0°, thanks!
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
There's no reason why you'd need to set the centre speakers crossover differently, not unless the calibratrion indicated that the centre speakers had a higher roll off than the other speakers?

Just set them all at the same frequency unless this conflicts with what the calibration measured as being their roll offs.
 

Daskew78

Active Member
Sorry it was the front speakers it set to 150Hz not the centre. The manufacturers websites said they should be set at 100Hz for all the speakers apart from the centre speaker because it sits on their Isolation ring on a table top so that should be 120Hz.

So the question is... do I go with the what the setup detects which is different for different speakers even though they are all the same speakers... or what the manufacturer suggests?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
As already suggested, what the manufacturer rates their speakers in a ideal test enviroment has no impact upon what the associated roll off or measured output will be within your room and in the locations you are placing those speakers. Use the calibration to determine where the crossovers should be. If the calibration indicates that what the manufacturer is suggesting would be admissable then follow what the manufacturer advises, but if the calibration contradicts this this follow the guidance given by the calibration. I would however always suggest stting a crossover closer to what the manufacturer advises if the calibration results in crossovers that are lower than what the manufacturer advises or recommends.

A manufacturer cannot account for the acoustics of your room, nuls that may be apparent in that room or how these these effect where the roll off would best be placed in that room. Manufacturers test their speakers in an ideal environment and your room is unlikely to be ideal when it comes to its acoustics.

There's no real reason why you'd need to set any of the speakers' crossover below where you've set the crossovers associated with other speakers. Why would you need the centre speaker to potray lower frequencies than the 2 speakers to either side of it? I'd tend to suggest you set all 3 at 150Hz in order to try make the transition of audio as it pans across the front soundstage as consist as possible. I guesss it would also depend upon your own ability to localise lower frequencies, but I'd suggest this shouldn't be an issue with most people.

I'd suggest you set the crossovers of all the speakers to 120Hz. Which is in accordance with what is recommended for both table top and on wall mounting. Gallo actually suggest a crossover no lower than 100Hz for the wall mounted speakers and 120Hz for table top mounting. There's no reason why the speakers mounted on the walls and ceiling cannot use the same crossover as that being used by the centre speaker as long as you don't set the crossovers below 120Hz and as long as this doesn't conflict with the calibration results?

snapshot001.jpg

Micro SE | Gallo Acoustics


Where did the calibration suggest the crossover points should be?
 
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Daskew78

Active Member
Okay, thanks for the detailed reply.

I'm going to re-run the calibration and see what it comes back with then go forth with your recommendations.

I'll post back what it detected them as just in case you want to add anything further depending on the outcome.

Thanks for the help!
 

Daskew78

Active Member
Right, I've re-run the setup and it's set the front, surround and top middle speakers to 150Hz. The centre speaker is set to 180Hz.

Those seem a bit high don't you think?

The subwoofer is set to LFE only 120Hz which I set it to before so I don't know if the setup has matched that or it doesn't touch it and kept it the same?

Thanks.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
It is where the receiver measures the roll offs to be. It is inadvisable to set a crossover below where a receiver measures the roll offs to be. What you set the filter onboard the sub to has no effect upon where the receiver determines the crossoverss for the passive speakers to be. The receiver sets the crossovers dependant upon the measurements it takes in association with the test tones those individual speakers output during the calibration.

You shoud use the crossovers suggested by the receiver and you should avoid setting the crossovers below those settings. While it is acceptable to set crossovers higher than what a receiver has determined, you shouldn't set crossover lower than what the receiver's auto calibration determined.
 

Daskew78

Active Member
I'm going to be honest in that i'm not 100% sure still what you are saying.

Are you saying based on what it detected I should set everything at 150Hz including the Sub?

Sorry but this isn't my area of expertise and i'm confused. Would you be able to tell me exactly what to set each one to based on what it picked up?

Thanks.
 

Daskew78

Active Member
I've set all the speakers including the sub to 150Hz except for the centre speaker which is on the table top and the audessy setup set to 180Hz so have left it as that. The next setting down is 150Hz and because it's speech mainly through the centre speaker I presume that's why it set it higher.

So the only thing i've changed from the setup detection is the sub to 150Hz rather than 120Hz.

I'd love to get some confirmation if this is correct? Sorry but I really do need it spelling out as I don't understand.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Don't set your crossovers lower than where the auto calibration determined they should be set.

You should leave the crossovers set to 150Hz for all of the speakers apart from the centre speaker and the centre speaker should not be set any lower than 180Hz.

You do not alter anything on the sub. The sub's own onboard filter should always be left set to its highest setting and the LPF of LFE setting onboard the receiver should always be left set to 120Hz. The LPF of LFE is a cutoff filter and not a crossover. THere is no reason to change it and it has no effect upon the crossovers.

The LPF filter for the LFE channel should always be set to 120 Hz. Any other setting is wrong. This filter has nothing to do with speaker roll offs and crossovers. It is a filter that is applied only to the separate LFE track found in 5.1 content. That material is authored to have content up to 120 Hz.

The crossover filter are a separate matter. They consist of a highpass and lowpass filter that is applied to the signal sent to each speaker. They are determined after the in-room measurements find the roll off points of each speaker.
LPF on LFE
 
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Daskew78

Active Member
Okay I’ve left the speakers where they are and turned the sub back to 120Hz meaning it’s exactly as the setup determined.

Thank you very much for clarifying everything and bearing with me. It’s much appreciated :)
 

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