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HMV now out of administration again

brian s

Distinguished Member
I'm very close to my store but I'm a bitconcerned about the closures in Leicester and Leeds. They've just done out my store to cram in more vinyl. So I guess they're not going to close it anytime soon but it could happen at some point.

Bri
 

John Chelsea

Active Member
Ironic the in the week they announce the web site to re open my local store Leeds is too close.
Will single the end of the last blu ray and now 4k physical store left in leeds.
Shame on the council for not helping to keep the store open and they wonder why the high street is dying.
Beggars belief
 

IGC

Well-known Member


I'm being very realistic as I hope Sunrise are being: lots of stores will have to close. I posted a link to their rent bill and it's mind boggling. The administrator paid the rent for the first few weeks and then it fell to Sunrise I'm sure it was something like £300,000 with an expected 27 stores to close. Mike Ashley had wanted a 6 month rent holiday.

If my local store (Livingston) were to close I wouldn't be too bothered as long as they have some sort of click and collect facilty for their website (they did previously). Looking at my card spending the last month I've had eBay click and collect (to Argos) and Amazon click and collect (to Morrisons and my local PO). Convenience.

Personally, the fact they lost their flagship store shows you there's no longterm business on the high street apart from a few stores perhaps.

The last 6 months or so I've had no access to their web store and I reckon they've lost £300. They can't afford to lose the business of people like me.

As for vinyl they've be as well to open a nail bar and eyebrow straightening salon in their stores. I have grave concerns about the vinyl craziness. I know only 2 people who buy vinyl and it's more ornamental that practical. I could say that about limited edition Blu-rays and the tat I buy but there's more collectors I reckon of film related tat.



I noticed last week Network released a statement saying they were moving there distribution fully to Technicolor -that's a fancy way of saying they're shutting up shop essentially. Change of business model if you like.

I'm not sure how HMV is going to fit in our new shopping landscape but I do have hope for their web side of things if they get it right [eventually]. As for their high street stores: I see no hope unless they get smaller, more Fopp-like (ie cool) and add more services and ease of use for online customers.

I struggle to see their future sadly but I'll be spending money as soon as they permit me (open up a proper online store).
 

Graham

Well-known Member
Yes I hate them. Some of the staff looked at me as if I was mad when I refused to buy them if they didn't have any untagged copies.

Bri
I'm with you on this - they obviously damage the cases so why on Earth would you buy a disc at full price when it's been damaged? The Batman / Batman Returns 4K discs in my usual Fopp store had the anti-theft things on and the slipcovers were crushed wherever they wrapped around it. Same with any box sets. Such an odd thing to do. I've always presumed though that it's only the display copy that's like that.
 

Graham

Well-known Member
PS the comment above about only one Fopp in central London is a real eye-opener for me. I used to love the Oxford Street store, that was a real journey for me on the train and I'd come back with lots of HMV bags! Such a shame that even the Bond Street one is now gone but the rent must have been astronomical. But I do think they did try to compete with some very good BR / 4K deals.
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
As for vinyl they've be as well to open a nail bar and eyebrow straightening salon in their stores. I have grave concerns about the vinyl craziness. I know only 2 people who buy vinyl and it's more ornamental that practical. I could say that about limited edition Blu-rays and the tat I buy but there's more collectors I reckon of film related tat.
Absolutely! It's like I've just stepped out of the Tardis into the 70's when I walk into my local store. Not just the sheer amount of vinyl but many of the albums are from that period. To be fair I'm seeing customers taking a lot more interest in them since they significantly increased their range. I doubt it's enough to keep the chain going though. I can't understand why anyone would take such a backward step other than for the collectable covers.

Bri
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
I'm with you on this - they obviously damage the cases so why on Earth would you buy a disc at full price when it's been damaged? The Batman / Batman Returns 4K discs in my usual Fopp store had the anti-theft things on and the slipcovers were crushed wherever they wrapped around it. Same with any box sets. Such an odd thing to do. I've always presumed though that it's only the display copy that's like that.
I've seen many damaged copies on the shelves because of those tags. If you were lucky they had spares behind the counter but I've often walked away empty handed. So your Fopp is still using them? The London branch I take it? I was in there not too long back and bought the Planet Of The Apes 4K set. If I remember correctly the guy went into a back room to get my copy. I don't recall seeing any of those security tags. My local HMV isn't using them on the Batman 4Ks.

Bri
 

bruce-leroy

Distinguished Member
I don’t like the name Fopp - reminds me of an olden days, effeminate, English prince.
 

IGC

Well-known Member

HMV's head of buying waiting for the next vinyl delivery

Interesting history on Fopp here I see the ex-criminal Richard Branson (the thinking man's Mike Ashley minus the farmer's suntan) gets a mention.

The vinyl thing reminds me of when I was in the home video cassette rental business and there were a couple of shops who stuck with Betamax or V2000 (!) solely and of course it ended very badly for them.

I like vinyl and it looks amazing but I don't see it as a winner. Anyone who's after rare or cheap vinyl isn't really going to visit HMV I would of imagined. I hope vinyl's not a disaster as it's the sort of thing that would bring down the chain of shops (see that Fopp link above).

When I lived in Edinburgh I loved Fopp but wouldn't dream of going into HMV (2 in the same street) or Virgin as their prices were crazy unless there was a sale on.
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
Has anyone heard on a date for their new points system? I'd love to be able to get my hands on the £50 I had.

Bri
 

Swizz

Active Member
Has anyone heard on a date for their new points system? I'd love to be able to get my hands on the £50 I had.

Bri
The last I heard from my local branch - the new point system will be with us in the upcoming months. (Hopefully sooner)

I'm in the same boat I have £50 waiting to be splashed out.
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
The last I heard from my local branch - the new point system will be with us in the upcoming months. (Hopefully sooner)

I'm in the same boat I have £50 waiting to be splashed out.
They have a 4K BOGOF offer on but I'm hanging back for now in the hope that I get my £50 soon.

Bri
 

IGC

Well-known Member


Is there anybody there?

Went into the Livingston store today and it was like Theresa May's leaving party.

Way, way too much vinyl very retro but it also made it look like a jumble sale.

Was looking for a couple of their Premium Collection titles but Harper and The Drowning Pool weren't in the 2fer. I did get:



Never seen The Yakuza and it sounds pants but I'll give anything with Paul Schrader's name on it a look.

Those price labels on the back are pretty daft and they're not on all of the stock. Big bins of Blu-rays being sold off and like most bins they're full of rubbish.

Asked the member of staff about their online shop and I got the "I've been asked that 100 times and I don't know" look.
 

paul hmv

Standard Member
Is there anybody there?

Went into the Livingston store today and it was like Theresa May's leaving party.

Way, way too much vinyl very retro but it also made it look like a jumble sale.

Was looking for a couple of their Premium Collection titles but Harper and The Drowning Pool weren't in the 2fer. I did get:


Never seen The Yakuza and it sounds pants but I'll give anything with Paul Schrader's name on it a look.

Those price labels on the back are pretty daft and they're not on all of the stock. Big bins of Blu-rays being sold off and like most bins they're full of rubbish.

Asked the member of staff about their online shop and I got the "I've been asked that 100 times and I don't know" look.
you can tell by the lack of replies lately on here just how irrelevant it has become 4 most of us. we should never have had 2 ask 4 an online store - they should have had one off their own bat. what, some 7 months later & still not fully functional.

a lifetime 4 an online store.

i fear it's 2 late whatever they do now. people have moved on, adapted, & found alternative sources 4 goods.

how they did not realise this would happen is beyond me.
 

THX1138UK

Active Member
The York HMV store still appears to do good trade, at least on a Saturday afternoon.
They have a large Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray selection with some good deals.

They also have a large vinyl selection - my feeling is that people like to thumb through the vinyl in exactly the same way that I used to love to thumb through LaserDiscs. There's something about the size of the packaging that makes it a deeply satisfying experience, which is impossible to mimic online. DVD and Blu-ray packaging doesn't have the same tactile feel.

I for one, really miss physical stores and hope HMV can survive. While it's easy to buy what you know you want online; when you're in a shop, your eye gets drawn to some of the more obscure releases. I always make some unexpected in-store purchases, that I wouldn't make if I only shopped online.

It's also a real pitty that the big flagship stores in the major cities are the ones to close. I used to love visiting HMV and Virgin Megastore in London and New York. Oxford Street and Times Square aren't nearly as interesting these days... They are just full of women's fashion shops like every other high street.

Ultimately though, the young generation see no reason to collect movies, or buy records when everything they want can be instantly streamed online. I didn't see anyone under 25 looking at vinyl. It's only the older generation who still value physical products, and that income stream may not be enough to keep HMV afloat.


Regards,
James.
 

mark6226

Well-known Member
I was hmv Newcastle today and they are selling loads of their premium collection at 2 for 15
Hmv have the largest market share of physical disc sales but as ive said before hmv are nay one distinct disadvantage. They are honest
Whereas amazon have influence in high places which allows them to avoid paying taxes.
This is why the high street is disappearing.
Hmv cannot survive. Amazon won't allow them to survive. Our government won't allow them to survive because they absolutely won't make amazon accountable.
Hmv could have a 50% market share but eventually they'd still go bust because amazon get away with financial murder.
 

IGC

Well-known Member
Nah, that's just daft. HMV stole -twice- millions from suppliers and never paid their bills.

Amazon pay all due taxes (and employ lots of people who pay National Insurance and income tax). The high street is dying very very slowly that's not Amazon's or any government's fault. HMV just like WHSmith, Play.com, ASDA, Tesco -in fact everyone- just a few years ago were taking full advantage of the Jersey tax dodge for items less than £15 so business is business.

With Sony disc manufacturing leaving the UK we have even higher prices and less choice coming very shortly.

HMV will soon be long forgotten.

Personally, I try to avoid Amazon UK they wouldn't know a good deal on a Blu-ray if it hit them: all they do is price match.
 

brian s

Distinguished Member
I've been meaning to ask this for a while now. Has anyone had an acknowledgment when they've applied for their old Pure Points? It went wrong for me last time and I lost them. I have £50 riding on it this time and I don't want to loose it this time.

Bri
 
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brian s

Distinguished Member
Nah, that's just daft. HMV stole -twice- millions from suppliers and never paid their bills.

Amazon pay all due taxes (and employ lots of people who pay National Insurance and income tax). The high street is dying very very slowly that's not Amazon's or any government's fault. HMV just like WHSmith, Play.com, ASDA, Tesco -in fact everyone- just a few years ago were taking full advantage of the Jersey tax dodge for items less than £15 so business is business.

With Sony disc manufacturing leaving the UK we have even higher prices and less choice coming very shortly.

HMV will soon be long forgotten.

Personally, I try to avoid Amazon UK they wouldn't know a good deal on a Blu-ray if it hit them: all they do is price match.
I'm certainly not an expert but as I understand it Amazon pay little or no tax in the UK. I also understand that their delivery service people work under terrible conditions. In addition I wouldn't be too surprised if their staff were on very close to minimum wage and short hours so they don't pay very much tax and NI I do buy from them but I much prefer to use HMV.

One big thing is they are no longer the original HMV so strickly speaking they didn't steal millions from their suppliers. I hope they survive and prosper against the odds.

Bri
 

brian s

Distinguished Member


Is there anybody there?

Went into the Livingston store today and it was like Theresa May's leaving party.

Way, way too much vinyl very retro but it also made it look like a jumble sale.

Was looking for a couple of their Premium Collection titles but Harper and The Drowning Pool weren't in the 2fer. I did get:



Never seen The Yakuza and it sounds pants but I'll give anything with Paul Schrader's name on it a look.

Those price labels on the back are pretty daft and they're not on all of the stock. Big bins of Blu-rays being sold off and like most bins they're full of rubbish.

Asked the member of staff about their online shop and I got the "I've been asked that 100 times and I don't know" look.
I have to say my local store is quite busy. The recent bargain bins did have some pretty good stuff in but the chances are that all the really good stuff had been sold by the time you got there. My big concern is that the bargain bins were probably there to make way for the huge increase of the amount of vinyl they are attempting to sell. To be fair the interest and actual sales of vinyl seems to have gone up quite a bit since they increased their choice of titles. I have seen young people checking them out but some of them are also seemingly very interested in their crappy cheap turntables. Sometimes based on the nice colour. So much for for the better sound quality of vinyl LPs.

Bri
 

IGC

Well-known Member
The bargain bins were full of really random stuff maybe it was unpaid for stuff that was due to be returned to suppliers or due for Poundland but it ended up staying. My local Poundland is still full of £2 HMV crap.

I just don't get the thoughtless attacks on Amazon I'm no fan as I said but the tax stuff is nonsense as they pay full due tax in the UK and then corporation tax in a third country. Apple (the famous Double Irish dodge of course), Lidl, Aldi, Vodafone and lots of other companies do that. That's business. People can choose where to shop.

Problem with HMV is we're trying to shop online and give them MONEY but we can't.

Primark have no web shop and are incredibly popular on the high street. HMV are 50% of the way there.

I see SportsDirect failed to post their financials last week Sports Direct delays results as House of Fraser trading 'uncertain'
 

THX1138UK

Active Member
Any publicly traded company has an overriding responsibility to its shareholders to maximise profit. Corporate CFO’s are paid mega bucks to minimise their company’s taxable liability.

Global companies have the advantage of exploiting the most appealing tax regimes internationally. They also skirt around regulator requirements which burden other smaller companies, by picking a jurisdiction that has the least red-tape and a light-touch approach to compliance.

This is why you see so many companies registered in Delaware and why Swiss Banking services are used the would over and why Amazon in Europe is a legal entity based in Sarl (Luxembourg).

It’s the same reason why you see ‘American’ movies made in Canada or other countries - it’s because they have appealing tax relief schemes.

From an accounting perspective almost no Hollywood movie has ever made a profit!
(you only pay Company / Corporation tax on profit, not revenue and fees are deductible).

The problem is, a shop on UK high street cannot employ any of the techniques that an offshore international retailer (such as Amazon) can use to reduce their UK tax burden.

It’s utterly pointless blaming companies - It’s government legislation that must change to make it a more even playing field.

We have been shackled by EU legislation on VAT (sales tax) which Amazon (and other global companies) have satisfied, by paying a very low rate (14%, 8% or 3%), but as we leave the EU, the law needs to change to ensure that orders from UK citizens are charged VAT at the full UK rate and this tax is collected by the UK government.

We probably can’t force a change in the way corporation tax is collected (because the companies are not based in the UK and don’t have their money here), but the UK can certainly change how VAT is collected once we leave the EU.

Hopefully this can happen quickly to help HMV and other UK based retailers.


Regards,

James.
 

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