How will the new Labour party reform to win support?

Cliff

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After the election it is quite obvious that the policies and leader were not popular with the electorate. (worst since 1935). So there has to be a re-think, and a clear out, rather like Blair/ Brown/ Mandelson did when the party needed rejuvenating.

We can all talk about a new leader, but Momentum as a movement is pretty well in control of all aspects of the party. It looks to me like Corbyn thought they had got everything right but the electorate didn't get the message and didn't support them. So this means a leader, like Rebecca Long-Bailey would just be a continuation of Momentum and would not help the party to become electable again.

Banging on with the same policies will not a vote winner. They need to drop the hard left policies.

Middle class voters could never vote for momentum. Working class Labour voters do not connect with the Islington set.
A complete change is necessary.

So, how will labour position itself on the political spectrum to win votes?
 
As long as people like this guy are whipping a hard left position, Labour will never see daylight again!

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As you point out nothing will change until there is a purge of Momentum - rather like the expelling of the Militant Tendancy in the 80's.

And I dont see that happening.
 
I think the Labour party have serious problems.
Having promised everyone "everything," and still failed to impress, where do they go from here?
 
The point about the "working class" is right there in the name - they're working. They don't want handouts and feel a sense of injustice when they see people who haven't contributed just get given stuff for nothing.

The old-style union bosses on the right of the party understood this and were interested in improving the lives of their members. Labour has forgotten this to their peril, with the working class moving on.

Personally I'd like to see Labour wither in the vine and give the Lib Dems an opportunity to fill the liberal-left vacancy left behind.
 
The point about the "working class" is right there in the name - they're working. They don't want handouts and feel a sense of injustice when they see people who haven't contributed just get given stuff for nothing.

The old-style union bosses on the right of the party understood this and were interested in improving the lives of their members. Labour has forgotten this to their peril, with the working class moving on.

Personally I'd like to see Labour wither in the vine and give the Lib Dems an opportunity to fill the liberal-left vacancy left behind.
That's an interesting idea. The Libdems will be reforming as well and its time for them to occupy the middle ground once again. But they need to think about their Brexit position. The GE election was won by Boris because he had a clear message on getting Brexit done.
Ignore the electorate at your peril!
 
The lib dems are between a rock and a hard place now. Their policy to reverse Brexit was madness.
 
Jeremy is Jeremy and he was not the problem with Labour. The problem lies at the root, in other words the mechanism which voted in Jeremy as the Labour Party leader.

So, what lies at the root and what in that mechanism needs changing?
 
I was always saddened by the shortsightedness of young people. They will, long term, be far better off if we're out of Europe. When have the French or Germans who are the real force behind the EU ever done us any favours?
Once we're out it'll eventually collapse like a house of cards. Too many poor countries requiring endless support. for growing populations.
 
Jeremy is Jeremy and he was not the problem with Labour. The problem lies at the root, in other words the mechanism which voted in Jeremy as the Labour Party leader.

So, what lies at the root and what in that mechanism needs changing?
I seem to recall a large part of that was as a joke and by accident. Tactical voting that bit them in the backside big time. One of the greatest or worst examples that one should vote for who they actually want.
 
Jeremy now appears to be dithering as to when he goes, from "a period of reflection" to "move swiftly".
I think secretly he's glad of the outcome, that the party lost but he held his seat. He can go back to relative obscurity on the backbenches, objecting to every single piece of hated Tory legislation.
He'll wake up one morning next year and say "Do you know, Diane, I had the strangest dream...."
 
I think the party will implode with self incriminations first. Maybe they should think about a caretaker leader first? Someone sensible like Kier Starmer, before electing someone new.
 
I think the party will implode with self incriminations first. Maybe they should think about a caretaker leader first? Someone sensible like Kier Starmer, before electing someone new.
From what I have seen and read over the last few days, their biggest issue is that they don't think they have an issue, it's just that people didn't get what they meant. As long as that mindset is that entrenched, they won't change in any meaningful way.

I have wondered if the only way they will make progress is by breaking up the party, by the moderates leaving and starting New Old New Labour. I'd kind of like to see a breakaway party from the moderate elements of the big two parties.
 
Any breakaway is doomed to failure - look at Change UK! And it is difficult to envisage Labour turning the situation around anytime soon.

It seems likely that we are only in the foothills of a long and enduring Tory administration that might see us through to the 2030s. The country will probably look very different when we get to the other end.
 
From what I have seen and read over the last few days, their biggest issue is that they don't think they have an issue, it's just that people didn't get what they meant. As long as that mindset is that entrenched, they won't change in any meaningful way.

I have wondered if the only way they will make progress is by breaking up the party, by the moderates leaving and starting New Old New Labour. I'd kind of like to see a breakaway party from the moderate elements of the big two parties.
I agree. I think the party needs to break up. The way it has become just doesn’t have mainstream support. I think there is space for a Liberal Social Democratic Party.

I can appreciate the “danger” with that as it could splinter the opposition towards the Conservatives.

Personally I think that danger isn’t that great as there could be a draw to such a middle ground party.
 
They need to stop chasing the metropolitan vote and re-engage the working class. When ex-mining areas vote for the Tories you know something is massively wrong with Labour. Clive Betts held his seat in my area, but his vote share was down over 12% and if people had voted tactically and gone Conservative instead of Brexit party he would have lost.

Maddy said it perfectly. Working people don’t want free stuff, and from my FB feed that was not only a vote loser but people actually felt insulted by it.
 
Any breakaway is doomed to failure - look at Change UK!
And The Brexit Party was made from UKIP and won a national election in a few months. Change UK was a handful of MPs doing the same as was already being done by the LibDems, hence why many then joined it. Labour had their success under Blair and a centre left ground. Labour can spent a lot of time trying to wrest control back or can form a new party that might actually be successful. What could a new Labour part be called?
 
Any breakaway is doomed to failure - look at Change UK! And it is difficult to envisage Labour turning the situation around anytime soon.

It seems likely that we are only in the foothills of a long and enduring Tory administration that might see us through to the 2030s. The country will probably look very different when we get to the other end.
And The Brexit Party was made from UKIP and won a national election in a few months. Change UK was a handful of MPs doing the same as was already being done by the LibDems, hence why many then joined it. Labour had their success under Blair and a centre left ground. Labour can spent a lot of time trying to wrest control back or can form a new party that might actually be successful. What could a new Labour part be called?
Yes similar to UKIP or TBP and their effect on the Tory vote, even if the only success of a breakaway party was to bring Labour back to the centre, it would have served its purpose. It might be what’s needed to make it happen.
 
Yes similar to UKIP or TBP and their effect on the Tory vote, even if the only success of a breakaway party was to bring Labour back to the centre, it would have served its purpose. It might be what’s needed to make it happen.
If Labour splits they won't get anywhere with the FPTP system. Blair realised there had to be a complete update to the party to win. Same applies now. If they want to beat the Tories then they will have get behind a new leader that has a new 'moderate' direction.
Rebecca LB will just continue with the same policies, so will end up losing again and again.
If they stick with Momentum they are doomed.

Labour has to appeal to voters. The idea that they have the right policies and voters need 'educating' will never work in a democracy.
 
Labour does seem to need these lurches to the left to find their roots before drifting back to the centre again. Momentum are a rebranding of Militant from the 80s when Michael Foot led the party to near oblivion. Then, it was John Smith who began the fight back but unfortunately died before he saw the results. Neil Kinnock nearly managed it, taking on the unions and the hard left, but it was Blair that finally did it. Unfortunately, after a few years of Brown being prudent, i.e. sticking to Ken Clarke's spending plans, they couldn't resist spending what they didn't have. Stretching their economic cycle to breaking point, they might still have got away with it when the crash of 2008 happened.
Like her or despise her, Maggie Thatcher was right about Labour eventually running out of other people's money.
 
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Hardly unified right now. How much effing and jeffing in an interview?
Said "made up shit about me" or similar about 4 times. She'd be fudgeing terrible on Just A Minute.
 

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