JVC DLA-X5900 Images washed out with HDR content

MontyB

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This is a new spur from a thread I started a few months back as most of the issues we had have now been fixed.
We still however have an issue with HDR content - or it appears this problem happens when we watch HDR programs, specifically "Sex Education" on Netflix.
We also noted this watching “Ready Player One” on 4K BluRay from our Sony 4K Blu-ray machine.
We are watching video content from the 4k Fire Stick via a Denon AVRX3500H.
We have purchased a Spyder Pro 5 calibration thing and running the closed loop calibration seemed to fix most of our image issues apart from the HDR ones.
When we watch HDR content the image looks very pale and washed out - whatever settings we change on the Amazon stick/amp/projector don't seem to make any difference!
Any ideas what we are missing?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Did you manage to upload the two HDR curves one for 1000 nits and one 4000 nits..
 
I just did the auto calibration with the Spyder and stored it to user2.
Is there a separate setting for on Spyder?
I never saw anything relating to nits in the Spyder/JVC calibration interface.
thanks in advance!
 
The Auto calibration of Gamma with a Spyder 5 is separate to the curves thing, that's to correct any gamma droop that effects SDR & HDR.. I wouldn't do anything further with the Spyder other than the Gamma droop.
As mentioned in the previous threads uploading curves is simple and I think essential to get decent HDR on these. That's not to say it's your issue, but you’re best to do it and rule it in or out first as I don’t think you’ll get the HDR potential out of these on their own unless you upload the curves or use external video processing.

As mentioned before, to do it :-

1. Download the JAVS v3 Curves I'd suggest the 85 nits (target) versions and both the 1200 nits (for content mastered up to 1200) & the 4000 nits (for content mastered up to 4000 nits), I've attached AutoCAL format versions of them as zips here to make things easy. Just download them and unzip them to a folder for later.

2. Fire up version 10 of AutoCAL, ensure you're connected to the projector and I think you need to put in it's serial number.
Step1.JPG

Step2.JPG


3. In AutoCAL go to import, select 'Gamma Data', change the Gamma slot to Custom1 (or another if you've used that already), then press the Import button and select the 1200nit file unzipped from earlier.
Step3.JPG

4. Repeat step 3 for Custom2 and the 4000nit file.

5. Now on the PJ go to picture mode, change it to the User1 (if not already used), select it and whilst there rename it to something like HDR1K. Come back a menu item and for HDR1K, change the Color Profile to BT.2020 (or HDR if no DCI filter preferred), Color Temp to HDR and Gamma to the imported Custom1 Gamma. Whilst there go into the Gamma settings for Custom1 and change the correction Value to 'Import' so it uses the Imported Curve file.
Step4.jpg

Step4a.jpg

Step5.jpg

Step6.jpg


6. Repeat step5 for HDR4K / 4000nits.
Step7.jpg


7. If you like the results then repeat step5 an associate Gamma Custom1/1000nits with standard HDR for the PJ so by default when something HDR plays it plays with the 1000/1200 nits custom curve.
Step8.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Javs curves-v3-85.zip
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Thanks for the screen shots and instuctions!
It seems better with the 1000 file but I have had to crank up the brightness to 18 else I loose the detail in the shadows.
I tried the 4000 but it seemed very washed out - same problem I had before.
I did notice I don't have the BT2020 setting on my PJ, would that be something I should look into? I just went for standard HDR for the colour profile.

Thanks for your help, was really useful having those nits files! I was getting a bit lost before!
 
There’s a screen shot of my settings. I started with the beginning of Ready Player One, I was using the pattern on the car seat in the lower left (circled yellow) to tweak the brightness so I could see it - still looks a bit dark in the photo but I could see the pattern on the seat. With brightness to zero it was totally black in the car and even in normal shots it was evident I was loosing detail in the shadows.
 

Attachments

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If everything is right, you should use the 1000 with content mastered in 1000 nits and the 4000 for stuff mastered at 4000 or above, such as 'The Meg' UHD' and 'Stranger Things' on Netflix.
Using the them for the wrong stuff shouldn't be required although I guess no harm if unwatchable without.
It may be worth ensuring you have your brightness levels set right first also.
Try running this YouTube clip to set your black level correct, try ensuring you use the same device you use to play the troublesome content :-

At least you'll then know what good looks like and if anything else is wrong after that it may be a nits curve thing or it may be just the content is rubbishly mastered..
 
Thanks, I’ll try that out. I’ve still kept the HDR4K setting in there.
To be honest the standard setting is fine and if I could disable HDR all together on the Fire Stick I’d do that.
 
My PJ is an x7900 with an extra DCI filter, so that's why I have the extra setting, forgot you said x5900..
Some even with the x7900 prefer the HDR setting as it doesn't use the DCI filter, the DCI filter allows the PJ to hit more of the BT.2020 range but drops the brightness to do it.
Was your PJ new when you had it and so factory reset or has it had the setting tinkered with before you had it? If 2nd hand and not 100% happy then maybe a factory reset may help you get to a good starting point. If not maybe worth checking the IRIS settings to check it's not been closed down to reduce brightness. Even in auto mode, it can be temporarily put in manual mode to shut it down and then put it back to auto mode to work in auto from from a closed down starting position.
 
Thanks, I’ll try that out. I’ve still kept the HDR4K setting in there.
To be honest the standard setting is fine and if I could disable HDR all together on the Fire Stick I’d do that.
Yes I'd keep the HDR1K & HDR4K settings as well as setting the default gamma associated with the standard HDR to the same as HDR1K. I'm surprised you can't sort out the fire stick.
To be honest I have streaming devices from Amazon, nVidia & Apple and out of all of them the Amazon was the worst and shocking to use and performance, the nVidia is great for local streamed content from things like Plex and the Apple is the best for content streamed from online Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple+ & Disney+ etc..
If you use the Amazon stick to stream mainly online, then rather than struggle to get an expensive projector to do what you want and work aorund the Amazon Stick issues, I'd jsut spend a bit extra and get an Apple TV 4K for ~£180 or a refurb from BT for £109 :-
Apple TV 4K 32GB - Grade B Stock
 
Ironically we started streaming back in 2014 with the Apple TV, since then we've had the original Amazon Fire TV box, a WD box and even an Android box - which was a disaster lol. So far the Fire Stick has been the most stable, we only watch Amazon Prime and Netflix at the moment. We can control the fire stick via Alexa which is a big advantage - Alexa can also control the amp and projector which is quite neat. Interestingly our Sony 4k Blu Ray machine has no way to disable HDR either.
I got the projector from Richer Sounds, it was a factory return so we got a good discount. This did generate a small worry that there is still something wrong with the projector but it does sound like more a software issue rather than hardware.
Good tip regarding a reset, I have already done a full reset on the PJ a couple of times.
We watched the last episode of Sex Education last night and to be honest it looked pretty good, if anything it was a bit too bright so I may tweak the contrast down a bit.
I'll try that youtube video when I get home!
Maybe another factory reset may help and then I'll do the routine you sent me again in case I left something on the piss.
Thanks again for your help!
 
Great glad it’s making a difference. Good to start from a known factory reset if the PJ hasn’t been professionally calibrated, then set brightness to start you don’t want it too bright, then upload curves and go from there. The problem is depending on your room you get very different results if it’s a bat cave or if it’s a lounge or if you have a React screen? What is the environment you have it in, dedicated room with black velvet walls or lounge scenario?
 
We are projecting onto an almost white wall, the side wall is dark and dark black out curtains on the other side, there’s no light at all when we watch movies.
What’s really strange is that in SDR the image is spot on... if I could disable the HDR at source I’d be happy :)
 
The Apple TV 4K really is very flexible and most see it as the best device, it also has the setting to allow you to force HDR, turn it on and off in line with the content (match it) or have it off all together...
 
It sounds tempting, though it’d be good to fix what’s wrong with the projector. We’d still have issues with playing 4K BluRays on our Sony BluRay which has similar issues with HDR too of course :(
What’s the Apple TV like playing BluRay MKV movies from a NAS?
That’s one thing we’ve struggled with, the fire stick plays all our DVD/BluRay MKV files on VLC “okay” it’s a bit ropey and the sound is often out of sync and always needs adjusting.
The BluRay machine does a better job with audio and picture quality playing the MKVs - but 50% of the files we have it won’t even detect - it can’t even see them in the folders - which I’ve still not fixed.
One of my dreams was to be completely disk-less and have all the BuRays on the NAS along with our CDs and DVDs which went on years ago but it’s proved a bit tricky! I’ve not even started to consider sticking the 4K BluRays on the NAS yet!
Lol
 
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If you want to play local MKVs then I think the nVidia Shield TV is best 2017 is fine unless you want to get Dolby Vision from Netflix (if you have a TV with DV) in which case I think you need the 2019 version. If where you store the files is capable enough of running Plex then that is an excellent option and can give you the video wall experience and is free for all the features you really need :-
You don't need a very power device, if you don't need to transcode, say convert 4k to 1080k etc, and you simply play 1080 as 1080 and 4k as 4k..
If your NAS is not capable of running Plex then you can instead run Kodi, which still can do video wall stuff, but is a bit trickier to setup, although once done looks after itself..
 
Hi, not sure if this thread is still active, but thanks for posting this info. I just went through this procedure with my JVC X550R projector. I am also doing this in conjunction with a new HD Fury DIVA I am setting up, so lots of moving parts. In any case, I thought it would be good to start with setting up the projector as well as possible. I first went through the process of adjusting dark level so that I could see the 17-25 bands on the youtube link when cast to my NVIDIA Shield. Then I uploaded the two gamma curves as per instructions above. That went OK (except that there is no HDR Color Temp on my projector, so I went with 6500K) but when I try the video again none of the black bars show up on either the HDR 1000 or HDR 4000 settings. Not sure if this is to be expected, since I don't think the youtube video is HDR...but any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks,
 
If everything is right, you should use the 1000 with content mastered in 1000 nits and the 4000 for stuff mastered at 4000 or above, such as 'The Meg' UHD' and 'Stranger Things' on Netflix.
Using the them for the wrong stuff shouldn't be required although I guess no harm if unwatchable without.
It may be worth ensuring you have your brightness levels set right first also.
Try running this YouTube clip to set your black level correct, try ensuring you use the same device you use to play the troublesome content :-

At least you'll then know what good looks like and if anything else is wrong after that it may be a nits curve thing or it may be just the content is rubbishly mastered..

how do you now what nits a movie or show is mastered in?
 
Great! I had my projector professionally calibrated, and bought a Panasonic DP UB820 UHD player, which can be set to map HDR content to 1000 nits (which is what the calibrator used). I am now very happy with HDR content.

Mark
 
Great! I had my projector professionally calibrated, and bought a Panasonic DP UB820 UHD player, which can be set to map HDR content to 1000 nits (which is what the calibrator used). I am now very happy with HDR content.

Mark
Who did you wind up going with to have it professionally calibrated? I've been tempted to do that to my own. Ran the curves and honestly can't tell much of a difference between different mastered content.

Embarrassing that it took me this long to upgrade from running SDR BT2020 to now finally being able to leverage true HDR.

Thanks,
 
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I went with Michael at Laser Video Experience. (tlvexp.com). He was excellent. Based in Canada, as am I, so not sure that would be an option for you. Check out his website, however, lots of good info.
 
Thanks for that. Did he happen to show you how to set the default Gamma setting? When enabling the curves for 1000 and 4000 nits....it jumps back to Gamma D whenever I play a different MKV UHD file.

Thanks again,
 

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