JVC N5/RS1000/N7/RS2000 NX9/RS3000 factory tolerance and issue discussion for owners...

Stridsvognen

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This thread is dedicated to discus various JVC issues such as color and contrast uniformity, hanging pixels and streaking, and how best to deal with JVC service, what should be accepted and what should be sent back.
 
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I have been trying to get some information from JVC about tolerances on these units, but it seems tolerances is not something that is put on paper but up to the individual evaluating it, wich might explain the huge differences from sample to sample.

Been trying to arange a go pick one up but demo it in the store first, but the dealer worry that if i dont like it, he is stuck with a open box unit, and he cant tell me whats acceptable contrast, contrast uniformity, lightoutput, and color uniformity, so there is nobody who can and will set a standard tolerance.

Anyone know someone in Thailand that might know someone that work on the JVC projector factory where they build these units.?
 
Quite a number of UK JVC dealers are also calibrators with a sharp eye and high standards, many will pre-calibrate as a matter of course and included in the price to ensure they are 100% happy with the unit before sending as it's much simpler doing it that way than having to return units via the post...
 
Quite a number of UK JVC dealers are also calibrators with a sharp eye and high standards, many will pre-calibrate as a matter of course and included in the price to ensure they are 100% happy with the unit before sending as it's much simpler doing it that way than having to return units via the post...
I seen that, but whats the tolerances for contrast, lightoutput, bright corners, color uniformity, one thing is to let someone evaluate it, but to what standard?

And at what point is it concidered a DOA.

Here it seems the better solution is to buy on the internet, test and return units that dont deliver within decent tolerances, and as it seems no JVC N series will deliver anywhere near lightoutput to specs, so that will be a valid return reason on every unit, not having to discuss how bright is a bright corner or who can see what dE uniformity issue, and convergenc error tolerances.

There is some extremely nice units out there, and i would love to own one of them.. I just have no desire to get another unit put together monday morning with hangovers in Thailand after a wekend of hardcore partying, followed up by some DPD shipping handling.
 
I have been trying to get some information from JVC about tolerances on these units, but it seems tolerances is not something that is put on paper but up to the individual evaluating it, wich might explain the huge differences from sample to sample.

Been trying to arange a go pick one up but demo it in the store first, but the dealer worry that if i dont like it, he is stuck with a open box unit, and he cant tell me whats acceptable contrast, contrast uniformity, lightoutput, and color uniformity, so there is nobody who can and will set a standard tolerance.

Anyone know someone in Thailand that might know someone that work on the JVC projector factory where they build these units.?
You're not going to get any joy whatsoever. The dead pixel tolerance that they've put in the manual is a complete joke (>24 dead pixels allowable, 8 for each colour) and so will anything else they actually commit to.

Someone should take them to task on the dynamic contrast numbers as I'm sure it is actually impossible to meet them with currently shipping firmware.
 
You're not going to get any joy whatsoever. The dead pixel tolerance that they've put in the manual is a complete joke (>24 dead pixels allowable, 8 for each colour) and so will anything else they actually commit to.

Someone should take them to task on the dynamic contrast numbers as I'm sure it is actually impossible to meet them with currently shipping firmware.

Maybe we could start a JVC documentation thread, where links quotes with relevant specs and tolerances from JVC could be collected.

The RS2000 i shipped back was replaced by JVC, but they did not specify why.

I would like another N7 / RS2000, but this time i want some tolerances on the most important parameters like color uniformity with closed iris, contrast uniformity/ bright corners, convergence.

It seems that bright corners are not tolerated in the US, and a valid return reason.

Ill buy from Ebay as that secure my rights if the projector dont deliver acording to specs, i can return it, not as described, without having to argue with the local JVC dealer, and typical JVC reply ( Ship it back and we will evaluate the unit, if we find it within tolerances you will be charged for shipping and testing)

What i seen the reviews is useless as the unit variations can be 50% or more on some parameters.
Anyone wanting a new JVC N series ill recommend to go look at it in the store, get a demo of the specifik projector your buying, not just the usual demo and take a new in the box off the shelf, or do as i do buy on Ebay, pay with paypal, and use a week or 2 to check out the projector, and sende it back if you fin it a bad sample, look for bright corners and color uniformity with closed iris, there will be some on all units, i had dE12 variation from center to 2 feet right on my 110" peak contrast on minimum zoom fully closed iris, and BT2020 filter on was 75000:1 in the center and around 18000:1 in the brightest corner.

The BT2020 filter do up the contrast, but since the N5 dont have the filter, it makes no sense to measure these models with filter on, the contrast spec should be delivered in minimum zoom fully closed iris, and not only in the center, ill say a 25% contrast drop in the corner is hard to see, so should be tolerated, much above that i would change the unit.

If there is doubt about the tolerances, and you feel its not performing to your expectations, ill think that returning a unit saying its not delivering lightoutput acording to specs will be fair, as i have not seen or heard about any N series capable or close to capable to deliver the lightoutput promised.
JVC ad.png
 
Sorry but I really think you are searching for a holy grail … you'll never find it. I don't think there is any consumer product that 100% meets all its specs. So, either you live with that fact or move on. Let's say you buy an oven and set it to 220 degrees ... are you sure it's really 220 degrees when the oven tells you it is?
 
I agree, I'd like to see a good and not so good one side by side in general conditions with random content. This happens in the audio side of things - people get obsessed with graphs and loose perspective on how it sounds and the enjoyment.

Obviously manufacturers need brought to heel if they are slipping, but in a day where people can share info widely and buy measuring tools, it doesn't really seem to hurt their reviews. Even on this forum it's given a glowing recommendation.

Gonna measure the oven later tho, that's just inexcusable.
 
Sorry but I really think you are searching for a holy grail … you'll never find it. I don't think there is any consumer product that 100% meets all its specs. So, either you live with that fact or move on. Let's say you buy an oven and set it to 220 degrees ... are you sure it's really 220 degrees when the oven tells you it is?
The oven goes to 275 degrees, so you can adjust it up or down till you find the 220 degrees point, just like when you calibrate the projector to D65, it wont be acurate, but you have range to correct that.

What im talking about is the projectors capabilities/ production tolerances, where you buy a JVC N5 that have a minimum contrast at 23000:1 and your best friend get another sample that is 50000:1, on top of that your corner contrast drops to 6000:1 your friends only drops to 40000:1 in the corner, and its not parameters you can change/ correct.

Im not talking about 100% on specs, i mentioned a 25% tolerance on contrast uniformity beeing aceptable in my mind.

Tell me what would you expect from a projector with lightoutput specs at 1900 lumen and 80000:1, what do you think is fair tolerances? Remember we are not talking about perfect, we are talking about how much is ok to be off specs.

I have seen good samples that i would be happy to own, so not serching for something that dont exist.
 
I agree, I'd like to see a good and not so good one side by side in general conditions with random content. This happens in the audio side of things - people get obsessed with graphs and loose perspective on how it sounds and the enjoyment.

Obviously manufacturers need brought to heel if they are slipping, but in a day where people can share info widely and buy measuring tools, it doesn't really seem to hurt their reviews. Even on this forum it's given a glowing recommendation.

Gonna measure the oven later tho, that's just inexcusable.
Measures is far from needet, i calibrate my projector and then i wach movies, but when i then find myself constantly looking to the right side of the screen every time i have a bright scene, and see its always yellow, and the bright corners compleetly wash out the corners in scenes in Harry Potter, and Zero Dark Thirty, to a point its a obvious distraction, then i start to dig deaper finding out whats going on, and the meter will be on duty untill i know.

If you find the best N5 and compare it to the worse NX9 you will prefer the N5, its that big differences.
 
Sure, I'd agree when it's obvious, but then what percentage of them have such wild sweeping issues?How many out of how many hundred from which batch, from which factory and measured by who and by what standards?

The problem is no one knows the percentage of sub par units not to mention those who may have not have as much of a critical eye as you.

You don't have a big enough sample size to make claim that they're collectively this good or bad. But it's not a good technology in the first place and it's an old design. I remember seeing the Z1 before it got it's firmware update you'd swear it was broken, but they were all like that.
 
I asked JVC, and thats like asking a politician a question he dont like to answer, so you get all sort of stories and how its not easy to do this or that.

Im a tecnician, build and maintained industrial machines all my life, mecanical and electric, and there is tolerances on everything, you dont build anything without having production tolerances, JVC have ISF and THX certification, ill gues they also have some sort of ISO certification.

I know im the critical consumer, and that 90% of all others wil most likely not care or notice the flaws i do, but that dont mean there should not be some very well defined tolerances.

Just for 1 parameter, contrast 80000:1, not specified how and under what setup conditions, its a easy spec to measure, and we know how to get the max contrast, there is no *1 and fine print with a disclaimer like + - 40% variation from sample to sample, and corners7 uniformity variation up to -80%

Its easy to specify, but JVC dont want to share it to the public, and when its not written we will have to apply some standard tolerances like +-5%.

If i had build a JVC N7 with what seems to be the challenges, i would spec it as a 1100-1200 lumen D65 projector, with 50000:1 to 100000:1 contrast, and -20 to -75% contrast uniformity, and max dE 10 in color uniformity with fully closed manual iris. Hangin pixels 5 blue 2 red on the edges and 0 green, convergence + - 2 pixels vertical and horizontal. There might be visible streaking and flaring in some content.

Then most samples would be within these tolerances, and consumers would know exactley what to expect,
 
Why would the guy at JVC tell you tho, what possible benefit does that bring him? He likely doesn't even know - it's probably on a spreadsheet in the R&D hub.

Everything does have tolerances and if you don't like the tolerances vote Sony or whoever. I still can;t see anyone yet quantify how good and or bad they are on average in any significant sample size, so the reality is no one knows and will likely never know.

Except for Derek in R&D of course and he's probably incapable of human interaction.
 
Why would the guy at JVC tell you tho, what possible benefit does that bring him? He likely doesn't even know - it's probably on a spreadsheet in the R&D hub.

Everything does have tolerances and if you don't like the tolerances vote Sony or whoever. I still can;t see anyone yet quantify how good and or bad they are on average in any significant sample size, so the reality is no one knows and will likely never know.

Except for Derek in R&D of course and he's probably incapable of human interaction.

There is always someone that knows someone that needs something and will trade some information for another favor of some kind, the thing is to find that someone, get the paperwork with the right stamps and get them out to the public, and someday i will find them.

There is quite a few that knows, they are mostly calibrators atatched to fairly big stores/ dealers, however they dont share these things in public, and i cant tell who knows what and tells who, then ill loos the stream of information, so i need something solid comming from a different source.

Ill try get in touch with ISF and THX and ask for the meaning of those stamps on specifik JVC models and see if they are more open to share what they are all about.

I asked JVC if it was possible to get a sample delivering contrast to spec with max 25% drop in the corners, and within dE3 in color uniformity, and around 1400-1500 lumen output.

The answer were that they could not promise anything, as that kind of out of the box performance was not possible, and they did not know my room trow and screen, and recomendet to buy a unit and get it calibrated by a pro.

That tells me that the guy at JVC have no clue what i was asking, i asked in the east and got a answer in the west.

Based on various feedback the unit i returned was within tolerances, nobody will tell the tolerances, but if thats so a 1900 lumen projector is ok to deliver 1300 lumen have dE12 color uniformity and almost 80% contrast drop in the corners compared to max measured contrast, and 25% less contrast than specs.

If im wrong im sure someone representing JVC can correct me here.
 
Literally no one at JVC is going to come on here and tell you anything. If any pro calibrators knew this info you talk of it would be all over AVS forum.

I haven't checked but that's where you should begin your quest.
 
Literally no one at JVC is going to come on here and tell you anything. If any pro calibrators knew this info you talk of it would be all over AVS forum.

I haven't checked but that's where you should begin your quest.
They will not share that kind of information in public. Then you have to get out in the world and meet them at private meetings where they trust people wont quote them. They make a living in that buisness.
Why do you think i atend some of these private meetings?
 
And now ... breathe in ... and ... breathe out. And repeat a few times ;)
 
They will not share that kind of information in public. Then you have to get out in the world and meet them at private meetings where they trust people wont quote them. They make a living in that buisness.
Why do you think i atend some of these private meetings?

They don't have private meetings with members of the public. You might now and again get a nugget here and there if you're out drinking with them at a trade show and happen to be in the trade yourself. And anyone privvy to any higher level info is going to be a distributor doing very large numbers, not your typical calibrators.

As a member of the public you are likely to only get general hearsay nothing more. The fact you haven't got more is for this very reason.

What private meetings at JVC are you attending exactly? Are you in the trade? What's your business in it?
 
They don't have private meetings with members of the public. You might now and again get a nugget here and there if you're out drinking with them at a trade show and happen to be in the trade yourself. And anyone privvy to any higher level info is going to be a distributor doing very large numbers, not your typical calibrators.

As a member of the public you are likely to only get general hearsay nothing more. The fact you haven't got more is for this very reason.

What private meetings at JVC are you attending exactly? Are you in the trade? What's your business in it?
As mentioned above i need to dig out official Jvc notes. Cant reveal my contacts/ quote them in public then im sure never to be invited anywhere again.

Can you tell how you know the things you just explained above?
 
As mentioned above i need to dig out official Jvc notes. Cant reveal my contacts/ quote them in public then im sure never to be invited anywhere again.

Can you tell how you know the things you just explained above?

Official JVC notes on what? It can't be the N series otherwise you wouldn't be here. You can quote anything you like, you're not an agent for them, anything you write here is hearsay.

Where are you being invited and in what capacity? Are you an independent contractor in the commercial sector? I could say how I know things but it would be redundant and I don't profess to have insider knowledge of JVC.

This is a discussion on the N series, so far you've reported some quite varying degrees in specs. I think it's interesting and I don't doubt you. However your findings don't allow and hard data on what percentage of 10, 100 or 1000 units at any given time, from any given batch are sub par.

Since majority returns are not because they measured bad I reckon you probably have an major task ahead to obtain anything verifyibly concrete. Good luck anyway!
 
Official JVC notes on what? It can't be the N series otherwise you wouldn't be here. You can quote anything you like, you're not an agent for them, anything you write here is hearsay.

Where are you being invited and in what capacity? Are you an independent contractor in the commercial sector? I could say how I know things but it would be redundant and I don't profess to have insider knowledge of JVC.

This is a discussion on the N series, so far you've reported some quite varying degrees in specs. I think it's interesting and I don't doubt you. However your findings don't allow and hard data on what percentage of 10, 100 or 1000 units at any given time, from any given batch are sub par.

Since majority returns are not because they measured bad I reckon you probably have an major task ahead to obtain anything verifyibly concrete. Good luck anyway!
You could help and add some measurements from your N sample, how many of them have you calibrated at this point.?
 
please stop as this is pointless

no one doubts strids that you got a bad one but stop having a dig at JVC that you cant get 80000 to 1 contrast in real life etc etc - I was gutted that my Epson 9300W didn't do 1000000 to 1 as claimed - not - as I didn't expect it to

I bought an N5 - I had it professionally calibrated - both the calibrator and I think it looks great - I have used it for 550 hours watching content not watching test patterns

I don't nitpick over things I don't and cant see when watching content - I just enjoy my purchase

I do not honestly care about minute testing on one individual unit - you might enjoy this level of scrutiny but I doubt anyone else does
 
please stop as this is pointless

no one doubts strids that you got a bad one but stop having a dig at JVC that you cant get 80000 to 1 contrast in real life etc etc - I was gutted that my Epson 9300W didn't do 1000000 to 1 as claimed - not - as I didn't expect it to

I bought an N5 - I had it professionally calibrated - both the calibrator and I think it looks great - I have used it for 550 hours watching content not watching test patterns

I don't nitpick over things I don't and cant see when watching content - I just enjoy my purchase

I do not honestly care about minute testing on one individual unit - you might enjoy this level of scrutiny but I doubt anyone else does
I know lot of people who likes and enjoy good JVC samples, and have i seen multiple JVC projectors that delivered to contrast specs and better, what we were discussing was what aceptable tolerances should be?
what do you think is aceptable variation from unit to unit.?
 
Just chiming in to say the oven was up to spec last night, well pleased.
 
I don't know, things like bright corners are quite easily and readily observed in real content if your room is dark and non-reflective enough, which I guess most are looking to achieve if they can get away with it. I know I can see my bright corners in the right scenes. Doesn't happen often though.

There is some inconsistency from JVC on this - every so often it appears someone turns up with a conscience who puts numbers to things, and is promptly removed from view. The last example of this was some brochures that got scanned in from the tradeshow launches of the N5/N7/NX9 which stated the +/-5% tolerance expectation for throw vs screen size under the throw tables; I've only ever seen this one other place (the throw calculator spreadsheet that GaryB used to update). The manuals and other collateral are devoid of what is a useful bit of info.

I don't think JVC are really any worse than A.N. other manufacturer, but that doesn't mean they can't be held to account for what they do choose to specify. No one is forcing them to put a contrast spec in that they can't meet (I defy JVC to demonstrate any way they can achieve the dynamic spec on the current series with shipping firmware - in a way which satisfies any sensible definition of dynamic contrast). Of course, you can say "Well everyone else does it" - but that isn't an excuse and it doesn't legitimise it.

At the end of the day though the specs are a double edged sword. On the one hand it could be argued an overly optimistic contrast spec may mislead a customer as to the performance. But given that there isn't currently even a close second to the JVC units in this respect it s hard to grumble too much - it's not like you'd have bought something better if only the dynamic contrast had been better represented! On the other hand, with retail sales laws being such that they are, unobtainium specs are only of benefit to the fussy consumer who has ready made reasons to be able to return under things like the distance selling laws should they choose to do so.

Vote with your feet if you feel strongly enough about it.
 

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