London’s murder rate continues upwards

Cliff

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This might be of interest:

London_Homicide_1990-2017.png



Notice the peak in 2003.
 
This might be of interest:

View attachment 1163587


Notice the peak in 2003.

If people are looking to blame London Mayors for the murder rates, instead of say the government for cutting the police forces, cutting services and funding for youths and social services etc ... then Boris isn't exactly a shining example.

Upwards trend when Livingstone took over, but within a few years it started to decline on a downwards trend.
Johnson took over in a downwards trend from Livingstone and left with an upward trend.
Khan took over during an upwards trend from Johnson.

Considering it takes at least a couple of years of policy to take any real effect, Johnson took over @ 148 but his policies really just carried on the trend till 2010 where they had an effect if any @ 123.
Considering Johnson left in 2016 and any policy Khan had would have not effected things to 2018, Johnson left @ 130.

So that's not only from a downwards trend to an upwards one, but arguably at a higher rate than he effectively had any impact upon things.

Therefore either it appears that it's only a Mayors fault if he happens to be Labour, the son of Pakistani immigrants and a muslim ... or it's not really the Mayors fault and has far more to do with a combination of Governmental policy on under funding and cutting services and budgets and the violent crime that is a fallout from the war on drugs and the vast sums of money criminal gangs are willing to kill over.
 
It would be interesting to look at the above graph and compare it with police numbers at the time as this comparison keeps being mentioned in London

I found this graph from here:
Police officer numbers in England and Wales

upload_2019-6-18_7-23-16.png


I’m guessing if there is a link as police numbers drop you’d the numbers rise after a delay.

Anyone know for any links for the Met police numbers?

But I’m sure it’s just not # that is causing the issue, you’d need to look at the type of crime and secondary crimes etc

“Stop and search “ under Boris.. this was obviously a change of policy, so was any research performed to its effectiveness?
 
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This is an interesting page....i dont think its political or racist but if im wrong you can tell me...

Home » London Streets
 
Its always good to have a target....
The fact is - 2003 the deaths peaked at 204, then year on year it decreased until 2014 when it peaked at 83 deaths before increasing again.

The factual information is there to 'use' as you wish.
 
Therefore either it appears that it's only a Mayors fault if he happens to be Labour, the son of Pakistani immigrants and a muslim ... or it's not really the Mayors fault and has far more to do with a combination of Governmental policy on under funding and cutting services and budgets and the violent crime that is a fallout from the war on drugs and the vast sums of money criminal gangs are willing to kill over.

Rubbish.
 
I am sure we do need more Police officers who are visibly policing. But it appears they are no longer a force- I think a poster here said they were in an advisory role or something!
The murder rate would be much much lower if street knife crime could be reduced. Much of it is gang related- revenge- dissing- initiation - drug related etc. (Predominately affecting black people)

The riot in Stratford where a very large group of youths ambushed police and pelted them with stuff shows they don’t have authority anymore.

“Officers were ambushed by around 100 youths and were pelted with bottles, while polcie seized a large hunting knife found on the floor.”



Of course the Mayor is totally ineffective. Has no ideas, makes no statements on how the police are supposed to tackle it, and does not give them any direction on things like stop and search. He should be on the same side as the police, maybe he is, I haven’t a clue what he is doing, as he certainly hasn’t told us. All he talks about is Trump, and tweets, now it’s racism. Anything to deflect from his inability to knock heads together and face this head on.


London bloodbath: Horror fatal stabbing in Stratford days after 100 youths attack police
 
I am sure we do need more Police officers who are visibly policing. But it appears they are no longer a force- I think a poster here said they were in an advisory role or something!
The murder rate would be much much lower if street knife crime could be reduced. Much of it is gang related- revenge- dissing- initiation - drug related etc. (Predominately affecting black people)

The riot in Stratford where a very large group of youths ambushed police and pelted them with stuff shows they don’t have authority anymore.

“Officers were ambushed by around 100 youths and were pelted with bottles, while polcie seized a large hunting knife found on the floor.”



Of course the Mayor is totally ineffective. Has no ideas, makes no statements on how the police are supposed to tackle it, and does not give them any direction on things like stop and search. He should be on the same side as the police, maybe he is, I haven’t a clue what he is doing, as he certainly hasn’t told us. All he talks about is Trump, and tweets, now it’s racism. Anything to deflect from his inability to knock heads together and face this head on.


London bloodbath: Horror fatal stabbing in Stratford days after 100 youths attack police

I think you’re referencing me with regards to their ‘advisory’ role. I was responding to another poster complaining that they were wasting time visiting a man who’d posted an aggressive tweet to advise him not to do it again. As I said, the Police are always an ‘advisory’ role in the sense that they advise people according to the law. If someone has been deemed to have broken a law, they are arrested. If they haven’t, but someone else has used their right to accuse them of something, they may just advise them of their actions but take it no further.

It’s nothing new, my dad was in Merseyside Police for 30 years and probably spent more time ‘advising’ people not to break the law than actually arresting people, as all good deterrents should be.

With regards to Khan and London policing, what are your thoughts on the Met Commander’s role in this? Are they just as much to blame, seeing as they are directly responsible for policing and planning? As far as I’m aware, they’ve raised similar concerns with regards to cuts in funding.
 
Too many snowflakes. Not enough Police? Though, even if we had more police, would it matter if they are so ineffective.

I think London needs Robocop:D:thumbsup:
 
With regards to Khan and London policing, what are your thoughts on the Met Commander’s role in this? Are they just as much to blame, seeing as they are directly responsible for policing and planning? As far as I’m aware, they’ve raised similar concerns with regards to cuts in funding.
Khan should have his own ideas, meet the Met commander and they should formulate a strategy. They must be on the same page. Doing nothing and sending mixed messages is not a solution.
 
Khan should have his own ideas, meet the Met commander and they should formulate a strategy. They must be on the same page. Doing nothing and sending mixed messages is not a solution.

I’d argue that the Mayor should worry about finances and leave the Policing to the Police. Do we really want politicians making policing decisions?
 
If someone has been deemed to have broken a law, they are arrested.

You would think that would be the case but if no law is broken why are they even getting involved

If they haven’t, but someone else has used their right to accuse them of something, they may just advise them of their actions but take it no further.
If they haven't broken the law how could the police take it further or what advice could they give

Sorry but accusing someone of something is not a right ,if it was there would be no recourse for wrongful accusations..

It’s nothing new, my dad was in Merseyside Police for 30 years and probably spent more time ‘advising’ people not to break the law than actually arresting people, as all good deterrents should be.
So his presence was likely the detterent ,which is what seems to be lacking nowadays..
I take by advising people he told them not to do something unlawful that he thought was about to happen which is what the police are meant to do afaict
 
Khan should have his own ideas, meet the Met commander and they should formulate a strategy. They must be on the same page. Doing nothing and sending mixed messages is not a solution.

Maybe they should watch Blue Peter and learn how they can cobble together lots of new police officers, resources and funding from an empty washing up bottle, a cornflakes packet and some sticky back plastic.
 
Khan should have his own ideas, meet the Met commander and they should formulate a strategy. They must be on the same page. Doing nothing and sending mixed messages is not a solution.

Khan did have his own ideas - one of the policies he was elected on was to reduce 'stop and search'. Of course the subsequent explosion in violent crime forced him into a u-turn which the Met Commissioner has said that the return of ‘stop and search’ has helped cut crime dramatically in London.
 
Maybe they should watch Blue Peter and learn how they can cobble together lots of new police officers, resources and funding from an empty washing up bottle, a cornflakes packet and some sticky back plastic.
So Khan gets more police and what then? Will they stop and search, will they be policing the areas most likely to see trouble? You know that one of the main issues for the Police is that they don’t want to be seen targeting ethnic minorities. As we know that is the area that is affected most- perpetrator and victim.
The mayor should lead and tell us if we are going to see more stop and searches, intelligence led etc. That is why we have this relatively new job of the Mayor of London.
 
So Khan gets more police and what then?

Well he has just spent £7 million on policing the recent Extinction Rebellion climate change protests — a figure that is nearly half of what he gave in additional funds to the Met to tackle knife crime.

Its all about priorities..
 
So Khan gets more police and what then? Will they stop and search, will they be policing the areas most likely to see trouble? You know that one of the main issues for the Police is that they don’t want to be seen targeting ethnic minorities. As we know that is the area that is affected most- perpetrator and victim.
The mayor should lead and tell us if we are going to see more stop and searches, intelligence led etc. That is why we have this relatively new job of the Mayor of London.

AFAIK, that is under the remit of the Home Secretary, not the Mayor.
 
I take by advising people he told them not to do something unlawful that he thought was about to happen which is what the police are meant to do afaict

This is the entire crux of what I mean by an ‘advisory’ role. The Police do a lot more than just arrest people. In an ideal world, they would rather deter/advise than arrest. In the case of the guy who tweeted about a coup, I’d assume that was reported by someone else, as is their right (people in here have posted about reporting what they felt was a crime, even if they had nothing to do with it), and the local Police were tasked with attending his home to advise him not to post inflammatory things online, otherwise he could be charged with incitement of violence.

Rather than acknowledging the advise, I’m assuming that guy instead ran to the local newspaper to cry about Police time being wasted by someone reporting him, when he could have simply taken responsibility and not posted something stupid in the first place.
 
AFAIK, that is under the remit of the Home Secretary, not the Mayor.
If that is so, how come he said he was going to reduce stop and search? (Less police?) All incoming mayors say they are going to tackle crime. Khan bleats about not having sufficient funds. He should be banging on government doors rather than Ch4 tv interviews.
He said he was going to use the Glasgow solution which will see results in 10years time.

No, can’t agree with you on this one. The mayor is appointed to look after our city and make it safe. That involves all aspects, policing, funding and strategy.
 

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