Question Long run HDMI cable advice please

rhinoxious

Novice Member
Hello!

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I've got the much-discussed long HDMI cable issue. I need a 10-15m run (depending on how I route it) from new Onkyo AV to new Epson projector. The old cable is in the wall/ceiling and there's no way it's pulling something new through.

So two questions, one is much debated, the other not so much:

1. Amazon Redmere, Feizlink, or RuiPro? I want 4k/HDR/60Hz for occasional gaming, so will either of the former work reliably or should I just stump up for the latter?

Amazon productAmazon productAmazon product
2. As I'm going to have to run the cable 'on the surface' somehow are there white versions of these (I think not) or what's the best way to sleeve the cable into white? I have run trunking before (D-Line) but the significant other prefers a neat white cable to a lot of plastic boxing. Another option might be spraying the cable white with a 'plastic' paint, be interested if anyone's tried that!

Any help much appreciated!

Seth
 
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mushii

Distinguished Member
Amazon basics is unlikely to work
FeziLink is an RuiPro clone and IMHO not manufactured or tested to the same standards as a RuiPro
Ruipro is my cable of choice. I have 15M installed in my kitchen.

I would not paint it as you may damage the outer sheath and invalidate any warranty. I am not aware of them producing a white version. I would personally run it in minitrunk or failing that, very carefully wrap it in white insulation tape. How are you going to clip it? Clips will be more unsightly than minitrunk (IMHO)
 

rhinoxious

Novice Member
Thanks for the advice.

I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but I'd rather have one cable neatly clipped in than mess about with trunking (there's a lot of corners involved, at least 6 I reckon).

I was thinking of buying some plastic cable sheath in white, slitting it down one side and wrapping it around the cable, will protect it from the clips too.
 

razy60

Well-known Member
I as well as some others on here use this one or the appropriate size.
Amazon productDon't forget these are directional and need careful handling when going round corners/bends. That's pretty much all hybrid type cables.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'I'd rather have one cable neatly clipped in than mess about with trunking' - remember you are dealing with transferring light along a small pipe; gentle curves, no pinch points, no stress on the cable/connector interface when pulling the cables and plan for a cable failing or becoming obsolete.

Always test any cable you plan to install in your system and ensure it is an extended test at all resolutions and formats you require.

RuiPro4K is our preferred option for anything 8m and longer where we are carrying a 4K UHD signal.

Possibly worth biting the bullet and installing an in-wall/ceiling conduit to avoid surface mounting and enable simple switch out of any cable you install now or in the future.

Active cables are directional and occasionally you have to allow for a USB PSU at one end of the cable if you hit any issues with your AVR or Projector when trying to 'steal/borrow' power from an HDMI socket.

Joe
 

rhinoxious

Novice Member
@Joe Fernand

Good points, I'll certainly give the cable a lengthy test before undertaking any DIY. And I'll be very careful around the corners!

As the cable run goes from the original house into the extension, past a steel girder, through a finished kitchen, and/or along a bare brick wall, the chances of me installing a conduit are nil at present. (the only possible option would be some kind of surface 'conduit' hidden inside some industrial style metal piping or the like)

I'll disguise the cable into white as well as possible and hope it passes muster with those concerned, honestly don't have the time or energy for anything more than that. Maybe we'll have moved by the next hardware cycle and I can future-proof it more properly!
 

Otto Pylot

Member
Amazon Redmere is the old generation copper only active cable. Redmere was bought out years ago by Spectra so the latest active chipsets are the Spectra7. FeziLink, as mentioned, is a close copy of the Ruipro cables, but does not use proprietary chipsets like the Ruipro cables, so longevity (reliability) is questionable.

Without the use of a conduit, pulling cables, especially active cables can be very dicey because you don't want to damage the connector ends, and that is very easy to do with a non-conduit pull, and you can not really control bend radius that well which can cause damage to the cable over time.

As Joe mentioned, lay the cabling out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before installation. That way if it doesn't work after installing, then it's probably the installation. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. And, the most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders in-between. This is especially true for 4k HDR and beyond over 10m.
 

rhinoxious

Novice Member
Thanks for all the advice.

Taken together it's pretty depressing reading for anyone wanting to send video over more than a few meters. It seems the only options are expensive, delicate, direct device to device connections, and even the very best of those seem not to work in all situations as promised.

I can't help but feel that home cinema has failed (although what body or company to lay the blame for that at is beyond my knowledge admittedly) if there is only one cable, made by one manufacturer that people agree will do what used to be a pretty basic job, and even that costs £130.

I know the technical hurdle is high, but it feels now like the whole HDMI standard (as we now have only one standard for all this) is designed only to connect a TV to a source sitting underneath it, and that's a pretty sorry state of affairs.

What say the likes of Epson or DLP, those behind amazing projectors, when they're told there is no simple, affordable and reliable way to get a signal to their devices?

This isn't my industry or my singular passion, so I'm sure many are suffering from this uncertainty far worse than me. And best of luck to anyone trying to find/create a better way forward, for surely there must be one.
 

mushii

Distinguished Member
I totally disagree with your analysis. I think its down to expectation. When people buy expensive items like projectors, they fail to budget for the necessary cabling and spend their entire allowance on the projector itself. For probably 99.9% of the population their AV gear is within 8m of their source and the point is moot. For those people wanting to go beyond what is really the norm (TV) and venture into the realms of projectors, then associated connectivity and installation should factor into their overall purchase / investment, but sadly it often doesn't, leading to disappointment and frustration. Its much like buying hifi and not allowing any budget for cables and interconnects.
The market is fine and the technology works, its really the education piece that seems to be lacking.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Long HDMI cables/transmission has been in the same position pretty much since day one and just as things settle down the content bandwidth goes up and we start all over again to find a reliable solution for those with Projectors or kit set up at opposite ends of a room.

The market is moving to the TV being the hub of most systems with source devices placed close to the TV (or ultra short throw projector) with eARC out to your audio amp - keep in mind around 90% of all HDMI cables are 2m long!

As mushii says if you are planning a Cinema room you have to budget for suitable accessories.

Joe
 

rhinoxious

Novice Member
I totally disagree with your analysis. I think its down to expectation. When people buy expensive items like projectors, they fail to budget for the necessary cabling and spend their entire allowance on the projector itself.
But it's not just a cost. If everyone said, oh here's five different manufacturers making different cables/solutions, either with their own tech, or to an agreed standard, that will absolutely work over the distance you need then that would be great. Happy to pay. Instead there seems to be a lot of uncertainty (otherwise there wouldn't be so many threads) and a lot debate over something that should be quite simple, and only one widely agreed answer/solution/cable. Which doesn't look like a healthy situation to me.

(yes, the old 'you should spend on interconnects' thing goes way back to analogue speaker cable, but for a while it seemed that digital would rescue us from that expense, we should look to escape it, not embrace it as some mark of true knowledge)

The last time I did this, with a 10m HDMI cable in the days of simple 'old' Full HD, it was pretty straightforward, had no problems at all, asked around, got told it had to be high-speed, bought a reputable one, abused it quite a bit to get it to run there, and it worked fine (and cost very little). And back then it was equally, if not more niche than today, to have a home cinema projector.

It just seems that HDMI isn't keeping up with the needs of enthusiasts (most commonly PC owners wanting to hook up to their TVs) and presumably custom and commercial/office installers, so they're having to find workarounds. Once we had numerous competing analogue standards in video, and at least in PC we see both HDMI and DisplayPort used. And what happened to the dream of wireless for instance?

I'm not living and breathing this stuff (you get me talking about games and I'm here all week), I'm just stepping in and mouthing off, but it does seem that someone, somewhere has failed to keep up and HDMI (or video interconncects in general) are lagging behind where they should be.

If you let me know who best to complain to (I suspect that identifying 'them' is most of the problem), then I'll take my ire elsewhere, as it's certainly not aimed at anyone here.
 

mushii

Distinguished Member
Again I feel that your analysis is flawed. There are very specific and published standards on HDMI. The problem is that there are so many 'shonky' and disreputable manufacturers, flooding the market with cables, that they use weasel words to describe, people fall foul of buying their rubbish. Your problem is that you want a cable for a non-standard application (connecting your display device over 8m away from your source equipment), which requires a non-standard cable (it falls outside of HDMI.org certification) but they are easily available. It seems to me that your gripe is that they cost more than a normal copper, sub 8m HDMI cable. You can buy cheaper brands and take a risk whether it will work or continue to work. Or you can buy the industry leader, which has a proven track record and reputation (because the manufacturer invested in the research, technology and independent testing, which cost a lot of money for such a relatively low volume product) than many users and installers on these forums have recommended (for that very reason).

Connecting PCs to TVs, well dont blame the TV / AV industry, there are some pretty much defined standard Resolutions and standard EDID to support AV equipment. The problem arises with the companies like nVidia and AMD pandering to gamers with all sorts of stupid resolutions, screen sizes and refresh rates, then said gamers expecting to hook their PCs upto their TV's / Projectors and AVRs that dont support their non-native resolutions and then complain that it doesn't work. PC's use monitors for a reason and not TVs, because they are designed to work with and adapt to the outputs of video cards, TVs generally are not

HDMI technology is exactly where it needs to be for the AV industry. It isnt where the PC and specifically PC Gamer market wants it to be, because it was not designed for them (and its unlikley that it ever will be).

Custom / Office installers seldom suffer from this as they tend to use Pro Panels which are designed to support PC resolutions and Refresh Rates natively, but they are not the same as domestic TVs. People think that all flat panels are the same, they are not. Its like assuming that all vehicles are the same because they have 4 wheels and seats.

Sorry if you feel that this a rant, but I feel that the record also needs to be put straight.
 

Otto Pylot

Member
I'd have to agree with @mushii and @Joe Fernand . There are lots of folks who have successfully installed HTS's with cable runs longer than the "magical" 25' (8m), which is the passive cable length maximum for certification by an ATC. There is no argument that HDMI is a mess but it is what we're stuck with. Inheriting an existing cable setup can be extremely frustrating especially if it was installed a few years back with only HD (1080i/p) in mind. Video technology will always outpace connection technology, and that's the problem, so it is more important now than ever to carefully plan what you want to do, but that can become expensive quickly, especially if you trying to update and existing connection.

Your frustration is totally understandable and I don't think anyone here is taking it personal so no worries there. As to who you can complain to, this is about it. The industry isn't going to listen to the end-user because they have their own agenda and "knows what's best for us". As heartless as it sounds, if you want to dance, you're going to have to pay the band :(.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'The last time I did this, with a 10m HDMI cable in the days of simple 'old' Full HD, it was pretty straightforward, had no problems at all, asked around, got told it had to be high-speed, bought a reputable one' - unfortunately you purchased a mis labelled cable as no manufacturer I know of managed to pass the High Speed certification at anything longer than 8m, though many sold longer lengths of cable using the same connectors and cable stock as the 'certified' cable and 'usually' added a caveat to the advertising (*in very small print) that only cables up to 8m where certified.

'If you let me know who best to complain to (I suspect that identifying 'them' is most of the problem)' - the folk who own the Content you wish to consume - they are who insisted on HDCP not the technology manufacturers and of course over time 'we' are all insisting on higher and higher quality video and audio playback.

Joe

PS Loudspeaker cable - now you are opening a whole other can of worms :)

PPS Don't spend more than around £2/m on loudspeaker cable!
 

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