MadVR Envy vs Lumagen Radiance pro

raz77

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Hi I have the JVC x7900, amazing projector, this has been calibrated and get a great picture with this and Panasonic ub420 tone mapping. I use my Apple TV allot for 4K streaming, I have no tone mapping on this for 4K hdr. Again the projector has been calibrated for this. I like what I read, a Lumagen with tone mapping can do. Now the price for a used one is still over £3K. MadVR gets talked about very highly, I just don’t like the idea of having to fiddle with a pc and it does not work with the Apple TV. Now the Envy does sound very interesting as you read further through the threads. Just no further information on release or cost. Just need a device to help with tone mapping 4K hd on Apple TV without costing the earth. Just hope Lumagen would release a device for this or could the envy make them think about making a cheaper device for this purpose.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-v...-envy-anticipation-thread-3.html#post57679770
 
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Nobody knows anything for sure about the Envy in terms of function and price. The Lumagen exists here and now and is amazing (had one installed and calibrated 2 weeks ago).

Yes it’s expensive but it will transform your projector image not just for DTM but colour and grayscale accuracy. You are also paying for a continually improving FPGA system. Topically the Lumagen is getting a major DTM update next week with future updates targeting precision. This will continue for years based on prioritisation of customers; not many products can say the same.

I welcome the arrival of the Envy if only to provide a bit of competition to Lumagen but I believe that even after release it will take years to refine and hone (like Lumagen). I had a choice to upgrade my X7000 or go with a Lumagen this summer. After seeing the improvements to image quality and HDR the Lumagen provided, with hopefully even better to come, I won’t bother upgrading until the next major thing comes along.
 
Another thing you can try first for a lot less money is get an HDFury device like a Linker or Vertex and then convert the PQ HDR signal to an HLG HDR signal.

Set your UB420 to Med LCD so it tone maps everything to 1,000 nits first, which is a great match for the HLG conversion.

I played with this a little before going on vacation and the results are very promising so far.
 
Another thing you can try first for a lot less money is get an HDFury device like a Linker or Vertex and then convert the PQ HDR signal to an HLG HDR signal.

Set your UB420 to Med LCD so it tone maps everything to 1,000 nits first, which is a great match for the HLG conversion.

I played with this a little before going on vacation and the results are very promising so far.


Hi, I already get a very very good hdr picture with the Panasonic and my projector. I have 1000 and 4000 hdr curves on it and it has been calibrated. It’s the 4K streaming from my Apple TV. I use this for Netflix, Prime and UK and US iTunes accounts to watch 4K hdr. It’s this I feel I could get more out of it. The projector is also calibrated for this and I can see the difference. When first coming on, it goes to preset hdr setting which can be quiet dark. When I switch over to the 1000 and 4000 settings I have calibrated for, it looks very good. Just wonder if a processor would give better tone mapping on 4K hdr.
 
The ultimate tonemapping is in the box, right next to the UHD disc, its stamped Blu Ray.
Its mastered perfectly for projectors.
And the JVC can be calibrated perfectly to D65 Rec.709, so a processor is not really needet.

I do have a Lumagen in my loop as i run a CRT, but the only thing it adds to the JVC is a bit of chroma loss.
 
The ultimate tonemapping is in the box, right next to the UHD disc, its stamped Blu Ray.
Its mastered perfectly for projectors.
And the JVC can be calibrated perfectly to D65 Rec.709, so a processor is not really needet.

I do have a Lumagen in my loop as i run a CRT, but the only thing it adds to the JVC is a bit of chroma loss.


I think you have not read the thread fully.I am perfectly fine with blu ray and UHD blu Ray discs. I am talking about just HDR on 4K streaming devices.
 
I think you have not read the thread fully.I am perfectly fine with blu ray and UHD blu Ray discs. I am talking about just HDR on 4K streaming devices.
Same thing apply to streaming, just stream the 1080P SDR edition/ set your streaming device to 1080P SDR and you will again have the content mastered perfectly for projection.
 
Hi, I want the 4K hdr. That’s what does look very good now, I just want to see if can push more out of the projector regarding the hdr
 
The problem with projector is that to gain lightoutput and get the P3 colors you need to open your iris, and then there is no advantage of the more expencive X7900/ N7, as it will set the contrast performance back to the same as the cheaper X5900/ N5.
The hole HDR then becomes LDR instead of SDR.
But ill guess if you subjectivly prefer to apply massive image remapping/ manipulation your best served by getting a Lumagen, even there is about as many different opinions how to set it up as there is people. Its a fun hobby to fiddel and tweak, ill just not recommend it to people who just want to enjoy the movie, when there is a mastering that fits spot on without any external manipulation of the source material.
 
Hi I have the JVC x7900, amazing projector, this has been calibrated and get a great picture with this and Panasonic ub420 tone mapping. I use my Apple TV allot for 4K streaming, I have no tone mapping on this for 4K hdr. Again the projector has been calibrated for this. I like what I read, a Lumagen with tone mapping can do. Now the price for a used one is still over £3K. MadVR gets talked about very highly, I just don’t like the idea of having to fiddle with a pc and it does not work with the Apple TV. Now the Envy does sound very interesting as you read further through the threads. Just no further information on release or cost. Just need a device to help with tone mapping 4K hd on Apple TV without costing the earth. Just hope Lumagen would release a device for this or could the envy make them think about making a cheaper device for this purpose.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-v...-envy-anticipation-thread-3.html#post57679770

I didn’t bother with an Apple TV unit as I thought Amazon and Netflix on the Panasonic was all I needed, was I wrong with this idea?
 
I didn’t bother with an Apple TV unit as I thought Amazon and Netflix on the Panasonic was all I needed, was I wrong with this idea?


Yes, Apple TV is better as you get Atmos with Netflix. It also shows everything in correct frame rate rather than forcing to 60 like the Panasonic player. I also have BT sports app on mine. They will be showing games in 4K with HDR. Apple TV is probably the best all round streaming device out there. Does HDR/vision and Atmos sound.

Apple TV 4K Owners Thread
 
The problem with projector is that to gain lightoutput and get the P3 colors you need to open your iris, and then there is no advantage of the more expencive X7900/ N7, as it will set the contrast performance back to the same as the cheaper X5900/ N5.
The hole HDR then becomes LDR instead of SDR.
But ill guess if you subjectivly prefer to apply massive image remapping/ manipulation your best served by getting a Lumagen, even there is about as many different opinions how to set it up as there is people. Its a fun hobby to fiddel and tweak, ill just not recommend it to people who just want to enjoy the movie, when there is a mastering that fits spot on without any external manipulation of the source material.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but I understood the lumagen to be a solution that ran without user input once calibrated and set up? Do you also feel hdr tonemapping is a negative for midrange projectors (n7 specifically)
 
If you open the iris up on a N5 and a N7 you will get the same contrast, they will be fairly identical projectors, the main feature you get on the stepup 7 series is the dubble iris that alows for higher on off contrast if you have a screen that alows you to close the iris, for a big screen where you need all the light you can get out of the projector, you just as well buy the 5 series. and go with the around 20000:1 native pannel contrast.
Personally i think HDR is a huge gimick or projectors, and a compromise, as there is no handle on it and its mostly calibrated and setup to subjective preference, and then the content is to different to make it look or perform the same on every movie.
People love new gimick toys, we are boys and we are curious, who will not want to explore the latest and greatest, and do you want to be the one yelling that the emperor is naked.
The Emperor's New Clothes - Wikipedia
 
That’s what I really what to know if MadVR or Lumagen would make a substantial difference to my setup. I already am very happy with the setup, I will regularly get the projector calibrated every 600-700 hours. I just hear so much about how good a Lumagen is, that’s why I started this thread hoping the MadVR envy may be cheaper or some competition to the Lumagen. Now Stridsvognen are you saying it won’t make a huge difference to my setup?. I have added black velvet to my walls around my projector and this has also made a difference in my already dark room. I just want to know from owners off a Lumagen or users of MadVR how much off a difference it has made to there setup. Was it worth the thousands as in the case of a Lumagen.
 
If you have a reference player like the Oppo 103D and use the lumagen upscaling, it makes a difference as its better than pretty much anything, but at the price of a Lumagen pro i would seriously buy a better projector, and pair it with a better player instead.
I do have 2 lumagen processors, and yes i like them, but i could also find way cheaper and simpler ways to get there, as long as you dont get all hang up on the 4K HDR must have, the JVC will calibrate perfectly fine without a lumagen, and with a OPPO or maybe a Xbox you will have reference disc handeling, and maintain full and unmolested chroma, the lumagen will loos a bit of chroma, nothing big, but you always give some to get some, and with the Panasonic players you give a lot to get some tonemapping.
 
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Well that’s the Madvr envy off the list, very expensive, sounds good but toI much money and no don’t will be more expensive than the $ price once add in vat and shipping. Just under $10000 for the pro and €5500 for the base is a big ask. At these prices I will stick with my trusty jvc x7900 and just keep getting professionally calibrated every 600 hours.

madVR Labs Introduces the Highly Anticipated madVR Envy Video Processor | CEDIA Expo
 
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Ouch!!!
 
Makes the Lumagen pro look like a very good deal.
 
If those are really the street prices... Seems mad going from a free product to something needing serious commitment...
 
Well that’s the Madvr envy off the list, very expensive, sounds good but toI much money and no don’t will be more expensive than the $ price once add in vat and shipping. Just under $10000 for the pro and €5500 for the base is a big ask. At these prices I will stick with my trusty jvc x7900 and just keep getting professionally calibrated every 600 hours.

madVR Labs Introduces the Highly Anticipated madVR Envy Video Processor | CEDIA Expo
I just saw the pre reg email..then shut it down again..wowser
 
Makes the Lumagen pro look like a very good deal.

Makes a 1.5k PC, which can be used to loads of other things too, look like the best of the bunch. Cheaper and arguably moe future proof?

Mine will be a MDVR, VR, Plex monster.
 
Makes a 1.5k PC, which can be used to loads of other things too, look like the best of the bunch. Cheaper and arguably moe future proof?

Mine will be a MDVR, VR, Plex monster.
This is exactly where my train of thought is leading me now, anything that is £4-5k for a base black box that needs to be upgraded for £300 for each input and output hdmi port to properly support 18gb (4k@60hz with HDR) on top of the base price is making my brain bleed.. However bring down stairs my Plex beast, add a GPU like an RTX 2060 Super for say ~£400 and Bob’s your uncle. If I was confident on which GPU to go for that would give me the best results from full fat 4K HDR MKV’s I’d order it now..... I don’t want to buy an 1050, 1060, 1660 or 2060 only to find after getting it to work I needed to really go for a 2070 to turn on the super duper feature that really makes it all look good...
 
If it helps I used a 1080ti and handled everything well when was using Mad VR.

Worth noting that the guy who develops mad VR recommends Turings as he plans in future to use tensors. 1080ti is about equivalent to rtx 2080 from all have seen.
 
Many thanks, so does turings mean going for an rtx 20xx something to help future proof? Could I get away with a 2060 ~£400 as that’s doable for an experiment, but ~£600-1000 for a 2080Ti is a bit much if I don’t get on with it as I don’t game so would throw it away / eBay it if doesn’t work out...
 
Yes a Turing (RTX) but plenty people using gtx 1070tis/1080s now with great results. I cannot help much further, due to lack of knowledge, but suggest looking on avsforums as lots of info there.

I did not buy the GPU for this purpose . I had it for gaming so it was a free experiment. Worth mentioning may also need to update ram etc as well as GPU.

Just as a disclaimer I no longer use MadVr but it gives a very good picture (have lumagen)
 

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