Making Movies Sound Better With Bass EQ

Glad you can hear an improvement. Understanding what's going on and why is going to give you significantly more control over what's going on and reduce your risk of sub destruction.

If you want to PM me or set up a call or something, I'll be more than happy to help. I'm working again now so weekends are better than midweek. :)
 
Despite learning REW, Chromapure (video calibration) and building my own subs I admit I initially found BEQ and the purpose of BEQ designer a bit confusing. I don't know if it helps, but just to break it down, these are the steps I took (with an optional AVR room EQ step, which may not apply with Audyssey)

1. Set up the MiniDSP to pre-equalise my pair of (DIY) subs using the OUTPUT PEQ, Delays and Compressor by measuring in REW and using REW EQ. Without a house curve. [Do not use the INPUT PEQ at all at this point, leave it flat].

2. Save this config file for later use with BEQ designer. I left this config in Slot 1 on my MiniDSP.

3. Calibrate my speakers and subs using Dirac, applying a small house curve (within Dirac) with some post Dirac sub delay checking using the alignment tool to optimise my crossover region. [Substitute Audyssey for this step, though the house curve option may not apply/be possible using Audyssey?].

4. Use BEQ designer to merge my saved config file from step 2, run BEQ designer and save the film/series MiniDSP BEQ adjusted files on my laptop.

5. Load up to 3 films/TV series BEQ files to Slots 2-4 on my MiniDSP and make a note of which slot is which film/TV series. Select as appropriate.

6. If you want to create a small house curve for non BEQ content, then you can edit your Slot 1 config by adjusting the INPUT PEQ and saving it under a new name. You could then save this in another Slot for comparison purposes, or over-write Slot 1 if you want to keep this for all other use when there is no BEQ file available.

I stopped short of step 6 because the small house curve I applied in step 3 is sufficient for my tastes on content with good bass.

Hope I haven't stated the obvious and/or it's something else that is causing the confusion. Once it's sorted it should just be a simple matter of loading the BEQ adjusted files ready for your viewing and you shouldn't need to keep fiddling or checking. At least that's my goal: I don't mind a bit of time spent setting up, calibrating and optimising, but after a week or two I expect to get things right and then just get on using it.
 
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Despite learning REW, Chromapure (video calibration) and building my own subs I admit I initially found BEQ and the purpose of BEQ designer a bit confusing. I don't know if it helps, but just to break it down, these are the steps I took (with an optional AVR room EQ step, which may not apply with Audyssey)

1. Set up the MiniDSP to pre-equalise my pair of (DIY) subs using the OUTPUT PEQ, Delays and Compressor by measuring in REW and using REW EQ. Without a house curve. [Do not use the INPUT PEQ at all at this point, leave it flat].

2. Save this config file for later use with BEQ designer. I left this config in Slot 1 on my MiniDSP.

3. Calibrate my speakers and subs using Dirac, applying a small house curve with some post Dirac sub delay checking using the alignment tool to optimise my crossover region. [Substitute Audyssey for this step, though the house curve option may not apply/be possible using Audyssey?].

4. Use BEQ designer to merge my saved config file from step 2, run BEQ designer and save the film/series MiniDSP BEQ adjusted files on my laptop.

5. Load up to 3 films/TV series BEQ files to Slots 2-4 on my MiniDSP and make a note of which slot is which film/TV series. Select as appropriate.

6. If you want to create a small house curve for non BEQ content, then you can edit your Slot 1 config by adjusting the INPUT PEQ and saving it under a new name. You could then save this in another Slot for comparison purposes, or over-write Slot 1 if you want to keep this for all other use when there is no BEQ file available.

I stopped short of step 6 because the small house curve I applied in step 3 is sufficient for my tastes on content with good bass.

Hope I haven't stated the obvious and/or it's something else that is causing the confusion. Once it's sorted it should just be a simple matter of loading the BEQ adjusted files ready for your viewing and you shouldn't need to keep fiddling or checking. At least that's my goal: I don't mind a bit of time spent setting up, calibrating and optimising, but after a week or two I expect to get things right and then just get on using it.
Thanks for this. My set up and therefore my requirements are a lot simpler than yours. The whole house curve thing is interesting. I knew I needed to do something because I was not getting much improvement with the BEQ files by themselves. I don't know if that is because of my sub or because I only have a single sub.
 
There could be a number of issues at play here: If your in room response is poor for some reason, then maybe the effect of BEQ would be weakened? I know it's maybe tempting, but just adding more bass as a house curve before BEQ might be a symptom, but not the cause.

FWIW this is my response from step 1, which is the setting used to merge my BEQ files. I used the RED trace as the base (the GREEN one was the result of eqing both subs separately). It's pretty much flat until it gets to 110Hz:

Separate vs single EQ.jpg



I know that I had watched a couple of episodes of Altered Carbon after my last calibration and despite it all sounding great on films/concert discs this program didn't. I had initially put it down to it being Netflix and maybe a result of the App in my player was limiting bass. However, once I loaded the BEQ file for this series, it then sounded just like most 'good' films do. Not over the top, but it didn't sound like I was watching on a little soundbar system.

I'll need to revisit some other discs to try some comparisons (I have Oblivion in 4K which is a bit 'weak' compared to the BluRay version I have), but hopefully I won't need to fiddle any more.
 
There could be a number of issues at play here: If your in room response is poor for some reason, then maybe the effect of BEQ would be weakened? I know it's maybe tempting, but just adding more bass as a house curve before BEQ might be a symptom, but not the cause.

FWIW this is my response from step 1, which is the setting used to merge my BEQ files. I used the RED trace as the base (the GREEN one was the result of eqing both subs separately). It's pretty much flat until it gets to 110Hz:

View attachment 1323440


I know that I had watched a couple of episodes of Altered Carbon after my last calibration and despite it all sounding great on films/concert discs this program didn't. I had initially put it down to it being Netflix and maybe a result of the App in my player was limiting bass. However, once I loaded the BEQ file for this series, it then sounded just like most 'good' films do. Not over the top, but it didn't sound like I was watching on a little soundbar system.

I'll need to revisit some other discs to try some comparisons (I have Oblivion in 4K which is a bit 'weak' compared to the BluRay version I have), but hopefully I won't need to fiddle any more.
I really only wanted to recover the lower frequencies. The house curve for whatever reason works very well in my room with BEQ files. No booming, no overload and as I said the basic character of the sound mix stays the same.

It reminds me a little of the Cineworld Atmos cinema. When something on screen rumbles, you feel it. Assuming the mix has the right frequencies then isn't that how it is supposed to be?

There are many variables and systems to learn so I have to work out how much I need to know. That's the balance I need to find, but in the meantime, I'm happy with my limited DSP use. The films sound great, job done......for now.
 
Probably something to do with the way the code loops.
As you noticed it overwrites all filters and pads with a bypassed passthrough filter to make sure it obliterates everything that was previously present. It writes counting up from 1 to 10 but, for reasons only minidsp know, PEQ_1_10 in the config file is displayed as the 1st filter on the 1st input channel and PEQ_1_1 is the last. Seems pointless to change this as you shouldn't be touching the input anyways :)
 
Hi guys for those following the thread but haven't as yet decided you may now be completely confused
this video is a good primer as to what BEQ is all about
It also gives credit where it is due to the contribution provided by some of our AVF members

 
Hi guys for those following the thread but haven't as yet decided you may now be completely confused
this video is a good primer as to what BEQ is all about
It also gives credit where it is due to the contribution provided by some of our AVF members


Nice guy. He's trying to build his channel up so like and subscribe :)
 
Yeah brown note has some good videos and goes into great detail in the difference between a filtered movie and then the EQ restored version using a REW Real Time Analyser
 
I've just watched his Godzilla.KOM analysis. If I didn't have a backlog including WotW I would watch this again. I remember watching this without BEQ and I'm pretty certain a 5 year old took my place. I can't wait to watch this again.
 
Can someone please kindly explain how to use the compensate compressor section in the miniDSP 2x4HD please? I think I may need to use it for my inuke NX6000D and Buttkicker, not sure if I need to use on outputs for my subs? Thank you :thumbsup:
 
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Thanks Rich, I am already using the iNuke/NX DSP models: LS 10Hz 4.4dB Q0.5 setting and the 2.3db setting on my NX6000 (non dsp version) but was wondering what the "Compressor" Tab is used for and how to use it? Apologies my previous post was incorrect I meant "Compressor" Tab :)
But the iNuke filters only go to 20Hz...

Compressor info here
 
Thanks Rich, I am already using the iNuke/NX DSP models: LS 10Hz 4.4dB Q0.5 setting and the 2.3db setting on my NX6000 (non dsp version) but was wondering what the "Compressor" Tab is used for and how to use it? Apologies my previous post was incorrect I meant "Compressor" Tab :)

If you go into the tab on the iNuke software, you can set a compressor in there also: In the iNuke you can set it to the specific wattage of your drivers too: Select 2/4/8ohms as applicable, then turn the virtual knob and you will see wattage displayed below the knob. This is the limit that the iNuke compressor will kick in. It's your call how close to the spec'd wattage handling you set it.

Belt and braces, you can set a softer compressor setting in the MiniDSP too, which will have the effect of reducing the level change as you approach maximum (arguably what a lot of commercial subs do anyway).

You can use REW to do compression sweeps to find the safe limits for your particular subs, then apply the MiniDSP and/or iNuke compression settings accordingly: There is no one size fits all setting though, unless someone else has exactly the same subs/cab/amp as you.

As I've blown up a few drivers, I tend to err on the side of caution and set the limiter to kick in about 4dB below where my subs naturally start to compress. I very, very rarely listen that loud anyway, but it should protect them if I forgot to turn down the master volume during trailers/menu for example after applying a BEQ filter for the main film. Or if I watch something else that doesn't need a big boost and forget to set my MiniDSP back to 'Slot 1' without any BEQ loaded.
 
If you go into the tab on the iNuke software, you can set a compressor in there also: In the iNuke you can set it to the specific wattage of your drivers too: Select 2/4/8ohms as applicable, then turn the virtual knob and you will see wattage displayed below the knob. This is the limit that the iNuke compressor will kick in. It's your call how close to the spec'd wattage handling you set it.

Belt and braces, you can set a softer compressor setting in the MiniDSP too, which will have the effect of reducing the level change as you approach maximum (arguably what a lot of commercial subs do anyway).

You can use REW to do compression sweeps to find the safe limits for your particular subs, then apply the MiniDSP and/or iNuke compression settings accordingly: There is no one size fits all setting though, unless someone else has exactly the same subs/cab/amp as you.

As I've blown up a few drivers, I tend to err on the side of caution and set the limiter to kick in about 4dB below where my subs naturally start to compress. I very, very rarely listen that loud anyway, but it should protect them if I forgot to turn down the master volume during trailers/menu for example after applying a BEQ filter for the main film. Or if I watch something else that doesn't need a big boost and forget to set my MiniDSP back to 'Slot 1' without any BEQ loaded.
Thank you very much Kelvin that make sense. I actually use the limiter within the inuke I wasn't aware that it's the same as the compressor in the miniDSP 2x4HD. Thanks for clearing that up.. also cheers @richardsim7 :thumbsup:
 
It does the same job, the MiniDSP one is maybe a bit more flexible as you can see by the change of the line when you alter settings: You can have a very gentle compression ratio like 1.5 or higher (more like the iNuke) of 4.
 
Just to caution you; I used to own a BK Monolith and blew the driver twice due to my own fault/heavy handedness, so please be very careful putting large house curves/high master volume through your BK PB12-300SB. You may even just be hearing harmonics of distortion from the 15Hz tone if it's pushing your sub a bit too much.

Not sure if this is what killed your Monolith but it's possibly worth highlighting the risk of driving ported subs much below their port tune frequency. The issue is that the driver becomes undamped and can end up moving excessively and uncontrollably. If I was using BEQ on a ported sub I'd be tempted to add a low frequency high-pass filter to prevent this.

And yes, I suspect that when a lot of people play that bit of EOT what they hear is higher harmonic distortion. Personally I think the subwoofer loving community would be better off if that pointless bit of audio at the start of EOT didn't exist. My advice would be for everyone to forget about it and 'test' subs with real movie content instead.
 
Not sure if this is what killed your Monolith but it's possibly worth highlighting the risk of driving ported subs much below their port tune frequency. The issue is that the driver becomes undamped and can end up moving excessively and uncontrollably. If I was using BEQ on a ported sub I'd be tempted to add a low frequency high-pass filter to prevent this.

I've only got into BEQ lately, so this wasn't the issue: The Monolith blowing up was just having it set too high trying to overcome a null (and it was an early model plate amp missing a filter that the later models have).

I agree with your suggestion of a protection filter as a precaution with a ported sub, especially if using BEQ.

I replaced the Monolith with my two DIY 15" Fi Q series sealed subs: They can take a lot of power, and a single NU6000DSP on each one still can't really overdrive them. I still set the limiter just below maximum as a precaution though to avoid hard clipping. I also set a gentle compression in the MiniDSP. I must do some REW measures to check the settings and I'll post them up on here if it's useful to any readers. :)
 
I've only got into BEQ lately, so this wasn't the issue: The Monolith blowing up was just having it set too high trying to overcome a null (and it was an early model plate amp missing a filter that the later models have).

Driving the sub too hard below the port tune may have been. That EOT section doesn't need BEQ to make it silly!
 
I can't remember the film, but this was way before EoT...it was a war film, with deep canon fire sounds. Sat enjoying the film, then 'crack' as the Monolith driver hit the stops. It sounded rough after that, so it died instantly. Tom sorted me out, though I did manage to do it again a few years later, even with the plate amp modified to later spec, so I put the upgraded driver in from the plus model, built my 2 x15" and sold it.

I did an awful lot of testing with the 15s to make sure I couldn't blow them up. :D
 
I can't remember the film, but this was way before EoT...

Ah, sorry, misinterpreted your post. The way it appeared in the discussion and your 15 Hz comment I thought you were referring to EOT :) .
 
I searched the thread and noticed that a couple of you have Harmony Elites and set them up for Config 1-4. I have the Companion (Elite without the screen) and did it a little differently, mainly because I don't know how to set it up that way lol. Instead I set cinema activities so that when entering/exiting it automatically switches to Config 1. So if anyone want's to know how to do that then let me know. This is safer anyway so I'm happy :)
 

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