Marvel (MCU) General Chat

Cinema is just a small part in todays entertainment market. But remains an expensive one.
 
The term cinema comes from a cinematograph which is a motion picture film camera, which also serves as a film projector and printer. It was invented in the 1890s in Lyon by Auguste and Louis Lumière.
To photograph with a cinematograph; to make a succession of photographic pictures of objects in motion. Which pretty much means anything that is filmed or projected in motion. Anything can be cinema. A movie is defined as shortened form of moving picture.

The term cinema seems to have been used by filmakers and critics as high art and movies as junk for the masses when in effect they are the same. People love there labels....
 
It might be poor agency or apathy or it might be what you said people having ‘vastly more reasons today NOT to go to the cinema. They have Netflix, Prime, Youtube, iPlayer, VOD, Blu ray box sets, binge watching, immersive HD gaming, social media’.

Where's the mystery then?


Thank you that’s what I’ve been saying all this time and saying people have choice because up to a hundred films are released a year, misses the point, especially when you’re arguing the audience will only go to watch what they know. Then you have the studio not risking it by offering something different, when they can offer audiences the same thing because it made a shed load of money.

Thank you again that’s what I’ve been saying all along. That tent pole event is backed by a massive marketing campaign smothering out any attention other films may get. Couple that with your point about people not wanting to risk watching something different and you get a situation where people’s minds about what to watch is made for them.

So what would you have them do about it? (whoever 'them' is). You can't make people see things they have little appetite for, and you cant expect distributors to cater for the minority of cinemagoers that want to see smaller films. We simply have to adapt to the changing landscape.

I don’t believe that. Take the success of Joker, a film backed by a major studio, made for an adult audience, challenging to watch, that cost comparatively little to make and made almost a $1 billion gross. It shows there is an audience out there for challenging and mature films.

Ah, so there are alternatives to Marvel then...

I didn’t say that and that's a cheap shot.

Apologies.


That a good point well made.


Thank you.

Incidentally, as a thought experiment I looked back through my Letterboxd film log to test the hypothesis that there was more choice in the past, going back 30 years.

1989. I've seen 48 films released during this year. 9 were cinema visits (I was aged 16 going with mates from school, and renting VHS tapes from my local shop.

1999. 44 films seen released during this year. 8 were cinema visits not counting repeat viewings. Renting videos & dvds at my local and watching at home with (then) girlfriend.

2009. 55 films seen released during this year. 8 cinema visits. Married with kids now, and have blockbuster blu ray postal service for much of my film watching.

2019, now aged 46 and currently single. To date have seen 78 films released this year. 45 cinema visits and counting. Have cineworld unlimited card and Netflix account.

Lots of factors and influences at play there, but lack of choice doesn't appear to be among them.

(although excessive film watching may lead to divorce!)
 
The title of this thread is "Marvel General Chat". Most of what is being discussed is way off topic. A few posts about actual Marvel news have been completely missed due to arguments about two old codgers opinions about what is and isn't cinema.
 
Really enjoying the discussion between two of the more thought provoking and lucid members of the AVF site - off topic it may be but it's discussion worth having and whilst I don't agree with Scorcese's and Coppolla's points it has at least got people thinking and debating the state of cinema in 2019.

I personally can't see why Marvel and the output of the old fellas can't peacefully coexist - it's all a bit binary, particularly on social media where the suggestion is you can't like cinema if you like the MCU. Utter nonsense of course but one thing I'd like to see is better or more prominent marketing by cinemas when they do things like anniversary screenings of older films.

In recent years things like Predator, Blade Runner, Terminator have all had brief reappearances that I thought weren't trumpeted loudly enough. I'd actually love to see some of the older marvel films pop back up now and again, especially Blade and the early x-men films.

The MCU is here and is established, perhaps the old boys need to consider what the wider cinema audience think they want and bring out films that are relatable to wider audiences rather than yet more Italian American crime stories.... Although maybe The Irishman will prove that's what the people want?
 
back peddling

“Let’s say a family wants to go to an amusement park. That’s a good thing, you know. And at theme parks there’s these cinematic expressions. They’re a new art form. It’s something different from films that are shown normally in theaters, that’s all. My concern is losing the screens to massive theme park films. which I say again, they’re their own new art form. Cinema now is changing. We have so many venues, there are so many ways to make films. So enjoyable. Fine, go and it’s an event and it’s great to go to an event like an amusement park. But don’t crowd out Greta Gerwig and don’t crowd out Paul Thomas Anderson and Noah Baumbach and those people, in terms of theaters.”
 
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You could a level criticism at Marty, he’s not shy about a remake is he or Coppola basically fiddling with his own movies repeatedly and rereleasing them. Is that cinema ?
James Gunn doesn’t come out with nonsense about their films being repetitive or boring when a new Guardians film is coming out does he.
Just leave it alone. They’re not to you taste, that’s fine.
 
Ah, so there are alternatives to Marvel then...
It's not that there aren't alternatives to Marvel and other big franchises, it's the alternatives are being drowned out by those franchises. 'Joker' is a rare example of something that has punched through the cacophony to command audience attention. It's rare and also inspiring because it tells a lie to the premise cinema audiences are dumbing down

Incidentally, as a thought experiment I looked back through my Letterboxd film log to test the hypothesis that there was more choice in the past, going back 30 years.

1989. I've seen 48 films released during this year. 9 were cinema visits (I was aged 16 going with mates from school, and renting VHS tapes from my local shop.
The late 1980's the wife and I were visiting the cinema at least once a week and looking at what was released in 1989 there was much more variety Indy, BTTF Batman but also films like

The Abyss
Do the Right Thing
Parenthood
My Left Foot
Sex Lies & Videotape
Dead Poets Society
Born on the Fourth of July
When Harry Met Sally
Glory
Bill and Ted
A Dry White season
Henry v
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Heathers
A Field of Dreams
Say Anything

A variety of different genres, many of them were major studio releases. Nowadays, something like My Left Foot, Sex Lies & Videotape, Crimes and Misdemeanors or A Dry White Season would probably be the reserve of arthouse cinema with a limited release. Back in 1989 such films were part of the mainstream.

So what would you have them do about it? (whoever 'them' is). You can't make people see things they have little appetite for, and you cant expect distributors to cater for the minority of cinemagoers that want to see smaller films. We simply have to adapt to the changing landscape.
I don't know, I don't expect anything to change but I do like to have a good old moan about the state of things now and again.
 
It's not that there aren't alternatives to Marvel and other big franchises, it's the alternatives are being drowned out by those franchises. 'Joker' is a rare example of something that has punched through the cacophony to command audience attention. It's rare and also inspiring because it tells a lie to the premise cinema audiences are dumbing down

The late 1980's the wife and I were visiting the cinema at least once a week and looking at what was released in 1989 there was much more variety Indy, BTTF Batman but also films like

The Abyss
Do the Right Thing
Parenthood
My Left Foot
Sex Lies & Videotape
Dead Poets Society
Born on the Fourth of July
When Harry Met Sally
Glory
Bill and Ted
A Dry White season
Henry v
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Heathers
A Field of Dreams
Say Anything

A variety of different genres, many of them were major studio releases. Nowadays, something like My Left Foot, Sex Lies & Videotape, Crimes and Misdemeanors or A Dry White Season would probably be the reserve of arthouse cinema with a limited release. Back in 1989 such films were part of the mainstream.

I don't know, I don't expect anything to change but I do like to have a good old moan about the state of things now and again.

At the risk of continuing way off topic...

1989, as you admit, was replete with effects-heavy blockbusters like Indy, Star Trek, Batman, Bond, BTTF, The Abyss, Punisher, Ghostbusters. How is that much different to 2019's spread of Avengers, Spider-Man, Star Wars, Jumanji, X-Men, Alita? I'll bet in the 1980s there were cinephiles lamenting the [then] state of cinema and harkening back to the 1950s & 60s when there was 'more choice'.

The late 1980's the wife and I were visiting the cinema at least once a week and looking at what was released in 1989 there was much more variety Indy, BTTF Batman but also films like

The Abyss
Do the Right Thing
Parenthood
My Left Foot
Sex Lies & Videotape
Dead Poets Society
Born on the Fourth of July
When Harry Met Sally
Glory
Bill and Ted
A Dry White season
Henry v
Crimes and Misdemeanors
Heathers
A Field of Dreams
Say Anything

A variety of different genres, many of them were major studio releases. Nowadays, something like My Left Foot, Sex Lies & Videotape, Crimes and Misdemeanors or A Dry White Season would probably be the reserve of arthouse cinema with a limited release. Back in 1989 such films were part of the mainstream.

I see your list and raise you (from 2018):

Widows
A Private War
American Animals
Blindspotting
Soldero
The Favourite
Crazy Rich Asians
Mid 90s
Eighth Grade
Vice
The Mule
Mandy
Suspiria
The Vanishing
Destroyer
A Star Is Born
Bohemian Rhapsody
Mary Queen of Scots
Overlord
Green Book
First Man
A Simple Favour
Blackkklansman
Upgrade
Hereditary
Love Simon
Unsane
A Quiet Place
Tully
.....
...and way more Darren Allanson’s films

Not much choice, really?
 
At the risk of continuing way off topic...

1989, as you admit, was replete with effects-heavy blockbusters like Indy, Star Trek, Batman, Bond, BTTF, The Abyss, Punisher, Ghostbusters. How is that much different to 2019's spread of Avengers, Spider-Man, Star Wars, Jumanji, X-Men, Alita?
The difference is, in 1989, the studios concerned didn’t release 2 to 3 Star Trek related or BTTF related, films in the same year. Studios back then weren’t talking about ‘phases’ and announcing what franchise related releases they were planning for 1990, 1991 and beyond. That’s not art, it’s the stuff of plant manufacturing and product announcements; like a carmaker announcing the launch of a new family saloon. Apple do it, Ford do it and now Disney do it.

I see your list and raise you (from 2018):

Widows
A Private War
American Animals
Blindspotting
Soldero
The Favourite
Crazy Rich Asians
Mid 90s
Eighth Grade
Vice
The Mule
Mandy
Suspiria
The Vanishing
Destroyer
A Star Is Born
Bohemian Rhapsody
Mary Queen of Scots
Overlord
Green Book
First Man
A Simple Favour
Blackkklansman
Upgrade
Hereditary
Love Simon
Unsane
A Quiet Place
Tully
.....
...and way more Darren Allanson’s films

Not much choice, really?
My list was made up of releases aimed at a mainstream audience and there were many more:
Sea of Love
Roadhouse
Uncle Buck
Weekend at Bernies
The Burbs
Harlem Nights
Tango & Cash
Always...


With your list, I haven't heard of some of the releases and I consider myself a cinephile.
 
This could go on forever and definitely deserves its own thread. Talking of threads, can we get this one back on topic please?
 
This could go on forever and definitely deserves its own thread. Talking of threads, can we get this one back on topic please?

Agreed sorry, its difficult one to stop talking about. But point taken. @Garrett is it possible to move the last few posts to 'general movie talk'?

That said, is there any general marvel news at the moment? We seem to be in a dry spell.
 
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Agreed sorry, its difficult one to stop talking about. But point taken. @Garrett is it possible to move the last few posts to 'general movie talk'?

That said, is there any general marvel news at the moment? We seem to be in a dry spell.
No you can't move post within threads to other threads, I think only way to do it which I don't think you can is clone the thread and delete all unwanted post.
Or the easier option is for you to get in touch with Ant Man and go back in time and start a new thread before all the stuff that wants to be moved kicks off. :rolleyes: ;)


P.S. if you do can you go back a bit further and buy me some shares in Microsoft.:smashin:
 
No you can't move post within threads to other threads, I think only way to do it which I don't think you can is clone the thread and delete all unwanted post.
Or the easier option is for you to get in touch with Ant Man and go back in time and start a new thread before all the stuff that wants to be moved kicks off. :rolleyes: ;)


P.S. if you do can you go back a bit further and buy me some shares in Microsoft.:smashin:

That's ok, just an idea. It's an interesting discussion, just got started in the wrong thread. I'd like to reply but it's too far off topic now and likely to annoy everyone else.

Ant Man 'wasn't available'. Lazy sod.
 
That's ok, just an idea. It's an interesting discussion, just got started in the wrong thread. I'd like to reply but it's too far off topic now and likely to annoy everyone else.

Ant Man 'wasn't available'. Lazy sod.
Perhaps he was out looking for something.
Bronco Layne had a pain so they sent for Wagon Train, Wagon Train was no good so they sent for Robin Hood , Robin Hood lost his bow so they sent for Ivanhoe, Ivanhoe killed a man so they sent for Big Cheyenne, Big Cheyenne was having his tea so they sent for Laramie, Laramie lost its cargo so they sent for Wells Fargo, Wells Fargo lost its hunter so they sent for Billy Bunter, Billy Bunter was too large so they sent for Nigel Farage, Nigel Farage had got a ban so the sent for Ant-Man, Ant-Man couldn't find his pet so the sent for Garrett:rolleyes::laugh:
 
Superhero films are pretty much like any other genre for me. There's a lot of very good ones, a lot of very bad ones and many in the middle.

Talking about potentially bad films has anyone seen the Man Thing film?


It's one of the few Marvel films I haven't seen.
Bri
 
Superhero films are pretty much like any other genre for me. There's a lot of very good ones, a lot of very bad ones and many in the middle.

Talking about potentially bad films has anyone seen the Man Thing film?


It's one of the few Marvel films I haven't seen.
Bri
I not seen it but was an Australian film and I just watched the end and they made the Man Thing a villain which from a few comics I read was not, and allied with some Marvel heros inc Spider-Man and Doctor Strange. The comic came out before DC Swamp Thing.
 
Warning spoilers for all MCU films



Shortly after 1 hour 25 min Benedict Cumberbatch> Barnacle Clampersnatch:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 
Very last pitch (endgame)
I hope you liked the one above and like this one It will be super easy, barely an inconvenience :laugh:
Warning spoilers.
 

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