Need some help with terminology, etc.

TomCarp

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Had some speaker channel problems involving a aux-attached iPod dock. One option was to upgrade/replace the audio receiver with wireless input capabilities, thus eliminating the hard-wired dock. In researching that, and other options, it became clear quickly that there are some basic architecture terms regarding the current audio technology that I don't understand. Rather than just ask for definitions, I'd appreciate help in configuring my new set up. I can do the "definition" homework.

The layout is simple: 2 wired outdoor speakers, and 2 wired indoor speakers. Audio-only system (not a home theater system), and only two sources are currently used: the tuner and the aux-attached iPod dock. The iPod has some iTunes playlists that are manually selected for playback. The iTunes playlists are synced from a single copy of iTunes stored on a laptop. We also have an Amazon Alexa voice assistant that is not integrated into the system.

The objective is to 1) eliminate the speaker channel issue, and 2) enhance the capabilities for audio source selection/playback. Also included is the objective to integrate the voice assisted capabilities for source selection and playback control. Other objectives like having an app to control the receiver would be nice but not important.

I have a NAS device on the wi-fi network, and wonder whether migrating the iTunes library from the laptop to the NAS would allow for audio streaming to the receiver.

Finally, integrating the voice assistant would be very nice.

My first move was to replace the current Denon DRA297 stereo receiver with a Denon AVR S650H theater receiver. The 650 seemed to have all the wireless connections and controls I was looking for. But I returned it after a few days, partly because it's overkill for a non-theater environment, and I found the 248-page user manual difficult to understand and follow. Replacing the receiver is still an option, which, I assume, means the newer units would have wireless built-in. The other option seems to be buying some newer source selection unit, which I think are called "DAC" devices. I also looked at a newer dock that had wireless capabilities. The current dock is a Denon ASD1R. It appears there's a new one with a "W" suffix, which seems to mean wireless.

This is where my terminology limitations became apparent.

Any help navigating through this would be very much appreciated.
 
A DAC - put simply is a Digital Analogue Converter, it takes a digital signal i.e. something streamed over the network from you NAS (or spotify, tidal etc.) and converts into something that can be played to speakers.

A DAC can be a separate box that connects to an amplifier which in turn you plug your speakers in, or it can be built into an amplifier making a one box solution.

Could I ask if you want to play two different music streams on the speakers at the same time i.e. classical outside, heavy metal inside? Assuming yes we need to look at multizone capabilities.

A very simple setup would be to separate the two zones and have 2 x Sonos AMP's (these have a built in DAC) connecting to each speaker setup. Using the Sonos application you'd just select the correct Sonos zone which you can name yourself and select your music (you can select your NAS).

You can also replace the current speakers with independent wireless speakers and stream that way - again using Sonos - you'd select the speaker(s) to stream to.

For voice commands you'd have to replace the current speakers with voice enabled speakers (again Sonos, for example, supports this).

Options other than Sonos are available!
 
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A DAC - put simply is a Digital Audio Converter, it takes a digital signal i.e. something streamed over the network from you NAS (or spotify, tidal etc.) and converts into something that can be played to speakers.

A DAC can be a separate box that connects to an amplifier which in turn you plug your speakers in, or it can be built into an amplifier making a one box solution.

You didn't mention that the DAC is the final component for sourcing digital audio - the implication being that there is (at least) one more component further up the digital audio source chain, eg, a CD player, a computer running a music file playing application, a streamer (aka network audio file player), etc.

The complete digital audio source chain (so including the DAC final component) can be in separate boxes or just in one.
 
Thank you both for the responses. I very much appreciate your time and interest.

Could I ask if you want to play two different music streams on the speakers at the same time i.e. classical outside, heavy metal inside? Assuming yes we need to look at multizone capabilities.

Good question. No, it's best to think of the speakers as just side A and side B. In learning the terminology, I saw that some of the audio configurations allow for "zones", which would be overkill for my use. One of the convenient features of the existing receiver is that it has buttons on the control surface to select A, B, or both.

You can also replace the current speakers with independent wireless speakers and stream that way - again using Sonos - you'd select the speaker(s) to stream to.

I looked into wireless speakers early on, partly because one of the speaker channels didn't work, and speaker wiring problems were a possibility. Although that's been ruled out since, I did look at Sonos and a couple other brands. Turns out there's a logistical challenge getting power to the speakers, which could be resolved, but, I decided against wireless speakers because it was overkill for my use.

As I mentioned in my original post, I'm willing to replace the receiver to get the functionality that it appears DACs provide, along with the agility to integrate a voice assistant. I'll do some homework on separate DAC units. My thinking is, though, that a separate DAC will cost close to just buying a new receiver.

I'm doing a little homework on a device to replace the iPod dock with a newer unit. I assume a wireless equivalent enables only things like bluetooth devices, but, if they support wireless wi-fi (i.e. access to music library on NAS), it might be all I need.

Again, thanks for the responses. This is very helpful.
 
A DAC - put simply is a Digital Audio Converter, it takes a digital signal i.e. something streamed over the network from you NAS (or spotify, tidal etc.) and converts into something that can be played to speakers.

Just a typo I’m sure but DAC stands for Digital Analogue Converter. 🙂
 
As I mentioned in my original post, I'm willing to replace the receiver to get the functionality that it appears DACs provide, along with the agility to integrate a voice assistant. I'll do some homework on separate DAC units. My thinking is, though, that a separate DAC will cost close to just buying a new receiver.

I'm doing a little homework on a device to replace the iPod dock with a newer unit. I assume a wireless equivalent enables only things like bluetooth devices, but, if they support wireless wi-fi (i.e. access to music library on NAS).
Just to be clear - if you are after a device with 'wireless input capabilities' to replace your current iPod dock and old (pre network streaming days) stereo receiver setup, that device is not just a 'DAC'.

What that actually requires is either a two box solution consisting of a wireless network streamer (which usually come with a DAC built-in) and your existing receiver, or a single box solution to replace the whole lot - a wireless (streaming) network stereo receiver, eg, the Denon DRA-800H.

Given that you are using Apple's iTunes application on the laptop as your music source, the simplest thing to do is make sure that the streamer supports Apple's own network streaming technology - AirPlay. The iPod touch also supports AirPlay.

However, your other objective of integrating your iTunes music tracks on the laptop with Alexa voice assistant is not as straight forward as just making sure that the streamer supports Alexa. Amazon's Alexa voice assistant technology is designed to source music from Amazon's own online/cloud music streaming services, not from music stored on your own computer(s) or a NAS. So you also need to use unofficial third party software to be able to do that (eg My Media for Amazon - not free), ie, it's not guaranteed by Amazon to work.
 
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Just to be clear - if you are after a device with 'wireless input capabilities' to replace your current iPod dock and old (pre network streaming days) stereo receiver setup, that device is not just a 'DAC'.

What that actually requires is either a two box solution consisting of a wireless network streamer (which usually come with a DAC built-in) and your existing receiver, or a single box solution to replace the whole lot - a wireless (streaming) network stereo receiver, eg, the Denon DRA-800H.

Given that you are using Apple's iTunes application on the laptop as your music source, the simplest thing to do is make sure that the streamer supports Apple's own network streaming technology - AirPlay. The iPod touch also supports AirPlay.

However, your other objective of integrating your iTunes music tracks on the laptop with Alexa voice assistant is not as straight forward as just making sure that the streamer supports Alexa. Amazon's Alexa voice assistant technology is designed to source music from Amazon's own online/cloud music streaming services, not from music stored on your own computer(s) or a NAS. So you also need to use unofficial third party software to be able to do that (eg My Media for Amazon - not free), ie, it's not guaranteed by Amazon to work.

Again, thanks for taking the time, and for the quality of the response.

Interestingly, I was also engaging with Denon customer service for the same topic and got DRA-800H advice this morning.

Given the age of the existing receiver, I'll probably lean toward a replacement.

If you're willing to hang in there a bit longer, the topic of storing the music library on the NAS, and the use of a voice assistant are still a little confusing.

Given the simple way we use the receiver, migrating the library to the NAS, and getting voice control are not high priorities. In fact, given the way we use the receiver, it might not be worth the time to enable either. As I mentioned, iTunes is brought to the receiver's aux via a Denon iPod dock. Using it simply involves selecting the dock as the source on the receiver, manually selecting a playlist (or album), and selecting the A/B speakers to use.

I think the dock has a hardware issue. Unlike the tuner, music played via the dock only drives one speaker channel. I've tried connections other than aux, and the problem seems to follow the dock.

This means, whether a new receiver or a streamer, access to an iPod would get us to where we are today. It doesn't seem wise to buy a replacement dock (e.g. the newer Denon wireless version), if the receiver or streamer can access iPod content. The iPod we use is an old original 30-pin version without bluetooth, so it might be necessary to use one of our newer iPods. This all assumes the new receiver or streamer can wirelessly connect to the iPod.

Once I find a streamer to look at along with the 800H, I'll go through the user documentation to confirm the unit will be able to access music on an iPod.

Tom
 
This means, whether a new receiver or a streamer, access to an iPod would get us to where we are today. It doesn't seem wise to buy a replacement dock (e.g. the newer Denon wireless version), if the receiver or streamer can access iPod content. The iPod we use is an old original 30-pin version without bluetooth, so it might be necessary to use one of our newer iPods. This all assumes the new receiver or streamer can wirelessly connect to the iPod.
Yes, if your newer iPod is an iPod Touch it should support WiFi and more importantly, Apple's AirPlay streaming. So you need to make sure the new network receiver or the new streamer supports AirPlay too (the DRA-800H does, the latest AirPlay 2 to be precise). You'll also have the option of using AirPlay from iTunes on the laptop to the network receiver or streamer.


If you're willing to hang in there a bit longer, the topic of storing the music library on the NAS, and the use of a voice assistant are still a little confusing.
Sure, no problem Tom.

How you move your music files from the laptop to a NAS depends on whether you decide to continue managing them with iTunes on the laptop or not. Running a media server application on the NAS would make it perfectly capable of supplying the new network receiver or the new streamer with the music files and it will be totally independant of iTunes on the laptop, making iTunes and the laptop no longer necessary.

The point about Amazon Alexa's Voice assistant is that it was never designed to help you play your own music files from a computer or NAS. You can only do that unofficially with helper applications not supported by Amazon.
 
Yes, if your newer iPod is an iPod Touch it should support WiFi and more importantly, Apple's AirPlay streaming. So you need to make sure the new network receiver or the new streamer supports AirPlay too (the DRA-800H does, the latest AirPlay 2 to be precise). You'll also have the option of using AirPlay from iTunes on the laptop to the network receiver or streamer.


Sure, no problem Tom.

How you move your music files from the laptop to a NAS depends on whether you decide to continue managing them with iTunes on the laptop or not. Running a media server application on the NAS would make it perfectly capable of supplying the new network receiver or the new streamer with the music files and it will be totally independant of iTunes on the laptop, making iTunes and the laptop no longer necessary.

The point about Amazon Alexa's Voice assistant is that it was never designed to help you play your own music files from a computer or NAS. You can only do that unofficially with helper applications not supported by Amazon.
Again, very helpful!

Sounds like abandoning the voice assistant for iTunes source selection is the right path. It is possible to connect the assistant so the output is run through the receiver to the speakers?

Regarding the NAS iTunes move: will it be easier to select a playlist using a bluetooth connected iPod vs. selecting from the NAS? What I comparing things to is how we play music today (i.e. manually select the playlist/song on the iPod, and then just select the iPod as the source for the receiver.
 
Hi Tom,
I am not that up to date with all of the technology too but over the years I have managed to move and redirect my iTunes library to a NAS drive and redirect my laptop to copy the CDs to that folder.
I have two Yamaha R-N602 and can use the Yamaha app via android or ios to find the music, it's a bit clunky. However, I use Bubble UPNP on android and the music app on my ipad to play via the inbuilt airplay.
 
Thanks Ged for the post.

You hit the topic I've been thinking about as I navigate through terminology and my configuration.

Like you, our iTunes library contains converted old music (mostly from records in my case), along with Apple purchases. Today, we just sync selected playlists to an iPod that's docked (aux connect) to the current receiver, and then manually select the playlist on the iPod. It seems the only reason to move my iTunes library to the NAS is to make the full library available all the time.

From your post, and others, it looks like Apple AirPlay is the best method to select the music for the receiver, other than to just bluetooth connect an iPod to the receiver.

Is that the way you see it?

Tom
 
I couldn't really commit to suggesting which is best for you (sorry), i don't have an ipod, just an iPad. I subscribe to iTunes match which is a sort of backup of your music (I think) and my wife just accesses her music on an iphone and streams from it and downloads some music now and again.
The 2 yamaha appear in the ipad and ipone and chose one to stream to. I'm not sure how the yamaha would see the ipod as an attached drive and will let others advise.
 

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