New ethernet cable..... wow.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Literally billions of pounds worth of critical data is transferred across regular ethernet cables and switches every day, from banking to films to heath infrastructure. I really don't understand why people think that stuff's good enough to handle their mortgage payments but not to listen to pop music.
Depends if you are in the universe of the normal Laws of Physics or the alternate universe of audiophool Laws of Physics were nothing can be measured and copper can perform incredible miracles.
 
Ethernet cables can cause transfer of electrical noise from router to sensitive DAC circuitry. They can also pick up local rfi so different shielding configurations can help. Some also incorporate filters like transformers and ferrites and esoteric field effect materials. It is not about 1s and zeros.
Mmm, ignoring any of the built-in galvanic isolation measures that comes with bog standard wired ethernet hardware for now - did you actually try to see if there was a difference in the audio quality by simply pulling the ethernet cable out of the streamer during playback in your tests?

Very simple to test - I don't know of any current network audio file player/streamer that won't have buffered enough of the audio file data received and carry on decoding & playing a fair chunk of the current audio file track, if not all of it (and usually some of the next track, if it supports gapless playback).
 
Last edited:
Literally billions of pounds worth of critical data is transferred across regular ethernet cables and switches every day, from banking to films to heath infrastructure. I really don't understand why people think that stuff's good enough to handle their mortgage payments but not to listen to pop music.

It's not about the digital data, that's very clearly checked to arrive at the dac bit perfect , possibly having had a few corrections here and there.

It's about the transfer of noise with the data from devices like switches, routers and power line transmissions. This noise does not effect your online shopping , share trading or dodgy down loading one iota but it can effect sensitive analogue circuitry and crystal oscillators in DAC devices enough to impact sound quality.

Our hearing sense is incredibly sensitive to variations in timing. These tiny differences in sound that our brain can detect between each ear give spatial information. So it's very important if you want to be able to paint 3D soundstage and get the near perfect transients and timbre.

The noise doesn't sit in any buffer either , it's contemporaneous to the music production of the system.
 
Literally billions of pounds worth of critical data is transferred across regular ethernet cables and switches every day, from banking to films to heath infrastructure. I really don't understand why people think that stuff's good enough to handle their mortgage payments but not to listen to pop music.
Yes I agree. Surely if there was potential for it to have errors it wouldn't now be a tried and tested solution? Anyway with this mirroring that's going on it's bound to make the sound more spacious isn't it???
 
I can’t believe there are actual adults arguing that changing an Ethernet cable will change the quality/volume of sound on a piece of audio equipment.

Utterly hilarious and tragic.
 
It's not about the digital data, that's very clearly checked to arrive at the dac bit perfect , possibly having had a few corrections here and there.

It's about the transfer of noise with the data from devices like switches, routers and power line transmissions. This noise does not effect your online shopping , share trading or dodgy down loading one iota but it can effect sensitive analogue circuitry and crystal oscillators in DAC devices enough to impact sound quality.

Our hearing sense is incredibly sensitive to variations in timing. These tiny differences in sound that our brain can detect between each ear give spatial information. So it's very important if you want to be able to paint 3D soundstage and get the near perfect transients and timbre.

The noise doesn't sit in any buffer either , it's contemporaneous to the music production of the system.

You clearly have zero idea how data networks function.

Your argument would suggest that changing an Ethernet cable or switch would result in better quality when downloading a song from iTunes, which is clearly nonsense.

I can only assume some people here are just trolling.
 
My fancy switch delivers significant change in sound quality. Was bought 30 day sale or return i evaluated it critically and was perfectly prepared to cover the shipping back to try it. Its so critical to my final system SQ its what pushed all the depth into the soundstage to get to the amazingly crisp images. Live acoustic albums like Nils Lofgren are absolutely incredible.

#fakenews
 
It's not about the digital data, that's very clearly checked to arrive at the dac bit perfect , possibly having had a few corrections here and there.

It's about the transfer of noise with the data from devices like switches, routers and power line transmissions. This noise does not effect your online shopping , share trading or dodgy down loading one iota but it can effect sensitive analogue circuitry and crystal oscillators in DAC devices enough to impact sound quality.

Our hearing sense is incredibly sensitive to variations in timing. These tiny differences in sound that our brain can detect between each ear give spatial information. So it's very important if you want to be able to paint 3D soundstage and get the near perfect transients and timbre.

The noise doesn't sit in any buffer either , it's contemporaneous to the music production of the system.
Someone has been reading the fake news marketing materials from these snake oil producers.:facepalm: Just because they said it doesn't make it true, however i believe there are unicorns - really.
 
People shouldn’t be allowed to post utter lies on here.
 
People shouldn’t be allowed to post utter lies on here.
It's a Forum and people have the right to voice their opinions, that's the very definition of Forum a place for open discussion.

In respect to the cable I fail to see how a transmission down mile upon mile of public cables, with all the failures and problems that the transmission can potentially pick up can suddenly be restored or made better by ending that run with some fairy dust cable.

You have no control over the public network cable so how is that last metre going to improve things?
 
People shouldn’t be allowed to post utter lies on here.
The issue is that once someone has spent their hard earned on one of these devices, expectation bias says they must hear a difference otherwise they wasted their money - they genuinely believe they can hear a difference even though this is not measurable using any recognised measuring method. The hardest thing to admit is that you bought something and it was a waste of money so you convince yourself that it is true - the problem really starts when you try to convince others of your beliefs using the bulls**t and invented physics spouted by these manufacturer's marketing departments in support of their products. Look how many of these companies still exist and still promote this crap using the same old FUD factors to scare hifi owners that they just might be getting the best sound, well not without their useless 'essential' products that can perform miracles. Having a unicorn in my listening room has really damped the reflections, just got to make him stand still now.
 
It's a Forum and people have the right to voice their opinions, that's the very definition of Forum a place for open discussion.

In respect to the cable I fail to see how a transmission down mile upon mile of public cables, with all the failures and problems that the transmission can potentially pick up can suddenly be restored or made better by ending that run with some fairy dust cable.

You have no control over the public network cable so how is that last metre going to improve things?

I agree in sprit but this is a bit like anti vaxxers; there is no debate, discussion or opinions here. It is an absolute fact that changing Ethernet cable will not improve audio quality. It’s just lies.
 
I agree in sprit but this is a bit like anti vaxxers; there is no debate, discussion or opinions here. It is an absolute fact that changing Ethernet cable will not improve audio quality. It’s just lies.
You cannot stop people putting down that they believe that these cables make a difference. To do so is wrong. Both you and I believe it's snake oil on the part of manufacturers. The next person that leaves a comment might think that both you and I are telling porkies. Bit like religion.

Both sides of the argument can post their opinions as long as it's done in a fair and reasonable manner.
 
Sorry to labour the point but this is not about belief or opinions. We have people on this forum who are experts in their fields saying categorically that changing an Ethernet cable will make no difference.

Opinions are great, lies are not. Facts don’t care about people’s feelings.
 
It's not about the digital data, that's very clearly checked to arrive at the dac bit perfect , possibly having had a few corrections here and there.

It's about the transfer of noise with the data from devices like switches, routers and power line transmissions. This noise does not effect your online shopping , share trading or dodgy down loading one iota but it can effect sensitive analogue circuitry and crystal oscillators in DAC devices enough to impact sound quality.

Our hearing sense is incredibly sensitive to variations in timing. These tiny differences in sound that our brain can detect between each ear give spatial information. So it's very important if you want to be able to paint 3D soundstage and get the near perfect transients and timbre.

The noise doesn't sit in any buffer either , it's contemporaneous to the music production of the system.
Could , might, . ???. Digital systems are designed to be extremely robust . They work with error rates of below millions to one ,when the signal strength is just twice that of the noise floor. The tricks of using complementary polarities , differential signalling etc ensure this stability. .. now is there grot on the data lines ..yes . So how large need it be before it matters and more significantly, how small before it can have no effect.
The analogue circuitry After a DAC is not at all sensitive. ..it does not need to be. All that is required is that any grot on the digital circuitry does not affect the power lines . That is easy to achieve.
 
Ok, all this talk about ethernet cables has made me hungry. I'm going for a toasted currant tea-cake as a normal tea-cake doesn't contain currants. Or..... does it?
 
Ok, all this talk about ethernet cables has made me hungry. I'm going for a toasted currant tea-cake as a normal tea-cake doesn't contain currants. Or..... does it?
But what if you have a currant allergy.:nono:
 
But what if you have a currant allergy.:nono:
Then you buy 'teacakes', not 'currant teacakes'. Unless of course you've got a wheat allergy then you need to buy free range wheat and you'll be fine :/
 
Damn difficult to shoot that free range wheat
 
The issue is that once someone has spent their hard earned on one of these devices, expectation bias says they must hear a difference otherwise they wasted their money - they genuinely believe they can hear a difference even though this is not measurable using any recognised measuring method. The hardest thing to admit is that you bought something and it was a waste of money so you convince yourself that it is true.

This is nonsense the guy spent something like £10 on 2m lengths of cat 8 as his existing cables were not long enough. There were no expectations!

He changed the cheap ethernet cables and noticed an improvement in sound in his system. If you frequent the computer audiophile forums there are reports from loads of people who have done the same with cheap cables. There are also plenty of people who have experimented with cheap switches , ethernet isolators and reported differences, even swapping Ethernet ports on a switch.....

This is all you need to know to understand that these things DO make a difference in some systems.

Then it comes down to individual choices and value but you won't really know unless you try!

I bet none of the "lol"brigade have tried any of these things and done any critical listening, because classical network theory tells them it can't make any difference. If they did they probably wouldn't hear anything anyway because of expectation bias 😘
 
He changed the cheap ethernet cables and noticed an improvement in sound in his system.

I bet none of the "lol"brigade have tried any of these things and done any critical listening, because classical network theory tells them it can't make any difference. If they did they probably wouldn't hear anything anyway because of expectation bias 😘

First sentence and last sentence above.

Expectation bias is everything.

So what your saying is that anyone that dismisses this idea that Ethernet cables make a difference won't hear a difference because of confirmation/expectation bias but the ones that hear an improvement, hear it because it actually is better and has nothing to do with bias?
 
First sentence and last sentence above.

Expectation bias is everything.

So what your saying is that anyone that dismisses this idea that Ethernet cables make a difference won't hear a difference because of confirmation/expectation bias but the ones that hear an improvement, hear it because it actually is better and has nothing to do with bias?

No, bias is pervasive and expectation bias is certainly something that can catch you out.

I just wanted to remind folks that the OP payed £10 on these new Ethernet cables that were needed as they needed longer lengths.

Ok so there could have been some expectation bias as he had read of others experiences and wanted to try a different geometry ca ble. He also expressed some cynicism to thinking he would hear a difference too, so on the whole open minded, willing to try and sceptical and only spending £10 is not prime expectation bias risk IMO.

Where as if you know you can't possibly hear any differences , (firmly belive that it's impossible to hear differences in theory). Then you are very likely to be subject to expectation bias.

Biases are only limiting in nature and therefore should be avoided if at all possible.
 
That's utter bollocks mate. It's completely expectation bias.
 
Last edited:
This is nonsense the guy spent something like £10 on 2m lengths of cat 8 as his existing cables were not long enough. There were no expectations!

He changed the cheap ethernet cables and noticed an improvement in sound in his system. If you frequent the computer audiophile forums there are reports from loads of people who have done the same with cheap cables. There are also plenty of people who have experimented with cheap switches , ethernet isolators and reported differences, even swapping Ethernet ports on a switch.....

This is all you need to know to understand that these things DO make a difference in some systems.

Then it comes down to individual choices and value but you won't really know unless you try!

I bet none of the "lol"brigade have tried any of these things and done any critical listening, because classical network theory tells them it can't make any difference. If they did they probably wouldn't hear anything anyway because of expectation bias 😘

Classical network theory?!?!?

It’s not a theory, it’s fact. Networks function in a certain way and changing an Ethernet cable will 100% not change the quality of sound.

You are either a troll or completely ignorant of how networks function.

Either way, no one with even the smallest bit of a common sense believes a word you say.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

The latest video from AVForums

Is 4K Blu-ray Worth It?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom