New Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 Streaming amp

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
There are also literally a hundred or so subs that can do this, almost all in the pro field, so there’s no need to spend a grand on one (or twice that on two) if you can’t.
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
I know this is a Lyngdorf tread. And perhaps I could stretch my budget to new the Lyngdorf amplifier. But what do you guys think of SVS subwoofers with app software build in? I’m not sure it they have DSP filter build in side though, but I’ve always heard it’s best too buy subwoofers from a company that only makes subwoofers only, not speakers also. I’ve tried two subwoofers lately. XTC 8.17, Dali Subwoofer 12 bass driver ( a fairly new model), both were terrible! Slow bass! The 🥁 on -Hey You- by Floyd was a mess. This could of course be because I use an amplifier that does not have build in eq software
 
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DT79

Well-known Member
I know this is a Lyngdorf tread. And perhaps I could stretch my budget to new the Lyngdorf amplifier. But what do you guys think of SVS subwoofers with app software build in? I’m not sure it they have DSP filter build in side though, but I’ve always heard it’s best too buy subwoofers from a company that only makes subwoofers only, not speakers also. I’ve tried two subwoofers lately. XTC 8.17, Dali Subwoofer 12 bass driver ( a fairly new model), both were terrible! Slow bass! The 🥁 on -Hey You- by Floyd was a mess. This could of course be because I use an amplifier that does not have build in eq software
I wouldn’t be so quick to blame the subs. Getting the timing between subs and main Speakers can be very hard. Where were these subs in relation to the main listening position?

Really you want them in the front corners or at least up against the front wall - for one then against front wall between the speakers. You also want to start off with the phase control at 0. Then the sub(s) ought to be time with the mains. If anything the subs might be slightly further away from the listening position than the mains in this situation, so if the bass sounds like it’s ahead in relation to the rest, then try using the phase control which will introduce an increasing delay as you increase it from zero.

if you are trying to put them/it anywhere other than against the front wall, then you can forget being able to integrate them with your mains properly without some kind of DSP room correction. The timing relationship between subs and mains will be different throughout the room.
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
I wouldn’t be so quick to blame the subs. Getting the timing between subs and main Speakers can be very hard. Where were these subs in relation to the main listening position?

Really you want them in the front corners or at least up against the front wall - for one then against front wall between the speakers. You also want to start off with the phase control at 0. Then the sub(s) ought to be time with the mains. If anything the subs might be slightly further away from the listening position than the mains in this situation, so if the bass sounds like it’s ahead in relation to the rest, then try using the phase control which will introduce an increasing delay as you increase it from zero.

if you are trying to put them/it anywhere other than against the front wall, then you can forget being able to integrate them with your mains properly without some kind of DSP room correction. The timing relationship between subs and mains will be different throughout the room.
Hey, DT79. When I borrowed them from the shop I only had the opportunity too have one subwoofer, not both at the same time. When I tried both subwoofers at separate occasions I had them placed back to back walls where my Tannoy Autograph Mini GR were placed. Both placed where my right speaker was placed. Note, I know have Dali Oberon 5. Great speakers! No need for subwoofers know. But still you need subwoofers when you use stand mount speakers, but they can also be fun with floor standing speakers too. Yes, I know subwoofers can be hard to integrate perfectly inline with your speakers where your speakers roll of in the bass. And boy I had problems! I found it impossible. I heard subwoofer all the time, it didn’t disappear which I’ve read about plenty online. But both subwoofers were fairly new, perhaps they needed more burn in/break in? But regarding stand mounted speakers, where they shine is imaging, and vocals vs floor standing speakers. This is something I miss sometimes😞🤔. DSP, is that also some kind of digital eq software? And what’s your verdict on the NAD M33? I know it’s a Lyngdorf tread, but i love this forum. The treads are fun too read.
 
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Helix Hifi

Active Member
DT79, yes I tried the phasing. I had it set at 0. But I did try too set it higher. But both subwoofers from my understanding recommended the phase controls to be at O, zero. This was recommended from the start when placing them correctly in your listing room. Also I had the volume around 9 a clock. But it was acceptable when listing too great recordings like Floyd, Dire Straits. But when trying to play music that not necessarily are bad recordings the volume became too high.
 

DT79

Well-known Member
Hey, DT79. When I borrowed them from the shop I only had the opportunity too have one subwoofer, not both at the same time. When I tried both subwoofers at separate occasions I had them placed back to back walls where my Tannoy Autograph Mini GR were placed. Both placed where my right speaker was placed. Note, I know have Dali Oberon 5. Great speakers! No need for subwoofers know. But still you need subwoofers when you use stand mount speakers, but they can also be fun with floor standing speakers too. Yes, I know subwoofers can be hard to integrate perfectly inline with your speakers where your speakers roll of in the bass. And boy I had problems! I found it impossible. I heard subwoofer all the time, it didn’t disappear which I’ve read about plenty online. But both subwoofers were fairly new, perhaps they needed more burn in/break in? But regarding stand mounted speakers, where they shine is imaging, and vocals vs floor standing speakers. This is something I miss sometimes😞🤔. DSP, is that also some kind of digital eq software? And what’s your verdict on the NAD M33? I know it’s a Lyngdorf tread, but i love this forum. The treads are fun too read.
DT79, yes I tried the phasing. I had it set at 0. But I did try too set it higher. But both subwoofers from my understanding recommended the phase controls to be at O, zero. This was recommended from the start when placing them correctly in your listing room. Also I had the volume around 9 a clock. But it was acceptable when listing too great recordings like Floyd, Dire Straits. But when trying to play music that not necessarily are bad recordings the volume became too high.
I’m not an expert at this by any means, but I think if you’ve got the subs positioned optimally and you’re still having timing issues then sorting that manually is going to take a lot of trial and error. The advantage with room correction is you can set distances to get things spot on, and manipulate the distances to overcome any timing issues - e.g. some subs have an inherent delay that can only be compensated for if you either a) run your mains through the sub, which not all support, or b) increase the distance setting for the subs/ decrease for the mains to compensate (i.e. make the main speakers fire later in relation to the subs).

I don’t know the Nad M33, but that has Dirac right? I’ve been happy with the results I’ve got with Dirac in my 5.1 system, but it’s a bit of a rigmarole to use.
 

harkpabst

Standard Member
That's one of the great features of the 1120: All the tools you need for perfect subwoofer integration are included.

You can define high-pass filters for speaker out and low-pass filters for pre-out (or even the other way around if you like). Crossover points, filter slope and characteristic don't even have to be the same for HP and LP. You can enter the exact difference in distance between mains and subs, which is easier and more precise than dialing phase values on a hardly marked knob. You can adjust levels.

So, even before having RoomPerfect perfrom its magic you can have main speakers and most subwoofers integrated pretty well. The sub doesn't need to provide any intelligent features. Sounds great to me.

PS:
People who would never buy a subwoofer from a company also making speakers should also avoid buying amplifiers from company also making CD players. ;)
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
That's one of the great features of the 1120: All the tools you need for perfect subwoofer integration are included.

You can define high-pass filters for speaker out and low-pass filters for pre-out (or even the other way around if you like). Crossover points, filter slope and characteristic don't even have to be the same for HP and LP. You can enter the exact difference in distance between mains and subs, which is easier and more precise than dialing phase values on a hardly marked knob. You can adjust levels.

So, even before having RoomPerfect perfrom its magic you can have main speakers and most subwoofers integrated pretty well. The sub doesn't need to provide any intelligent features. Sounds great to me.

PS:
People who would never buy a subwoofer from a company also making speakers should also avoid buying amplifiers from company also making CD players. ;)
I know you say Room Perfect eq is magic, but can you explain a bit more if that means that you can place your main speakers in a stereo setup almost as close to the back walls as you like? And how is the sound before RP is on? And how does it also sound with or without RP on? Cold, sterile, or neutral without any warmth. I know I have too try one model my self. But no remote, wrong power cords is a bit of a mess if you ask me.
 

DT79

Well-known Member
I know you say Room Perfect eq is magic, but can you explain a bit more if that means that you can place your main speakers in a stereo setup almost as close to the back walls as you like? And how is the sound before RP is on? And does it also sound with or without RP on? Cold, sterile, or neutral without any warmth. I know I have too try one model my self. But no remote, wrong power cords is a bit of a mess if you ask me.
It sounds like what ever your source and speakers are.
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
I’m not an expert at this by any means, but I think if you’ve got the subs positioned optimally and you’re still having timing issues then sorting that manually is going to take a lot of trial and error. The advantage with room correction is you can set distances to get things spot on, and manipulate the distances to overcome any timing issues - e.g. some subs have an inherent delay that can only be compensated for if you either a) run your mains through the sub, which not all support, or b) increase the distance setting for the subs/ decrease for the mains to compensate (i.e. make the main speakers fire later in relation to the subs).

I don’t know the Nad M33, but that has Dirac right? I’ve been happy with the results I’ve got with Dirac in my 5.1 system, but it’s a bit of a rigmarole to use.
Yes, they use Dirac. In a test they got very good points for excellent sound, but the Dirac software is a bit tiring to use. And you need too buy extra Dirac software if you want to eq the room completely from my understanding.
 

DT79

Well-known Member
DT79, do you use an amplifier from Lyngdorf? I think I read that here on the forum.
Yes TDAI-2170. Turn your phone landscape and you can see people’s signatures :smashin:
 

DT79

Well-known Member
Yes, they use Dirac. In a test they got very good points for excellent sound, but the Dirac software is a bit tiring to use. And you need too buy extra Dirac software if you want to eq the room completely from my understanding.
The bass is the bit you get free and that’s the most important part.
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
Read a review about the Lyngdorf that’s over the 1120. When RF was on you could basically place your speakers in no zone areas, like corners etc. How is that possible? Sorry if I’m nagging, it’s just digital room correction software is a new field for me audio vise.
 

mho64

Active Member
I know you say Room Perfect eq is magic, but can you explain a bit more if that means that you can place your main speakers in a stereo setup almost as close to the back walls as you like? And how is the sound before RP is on? And how does it also sound with or without RP on? Cold, sterile, or neutral without any warmth. I know I have too try one model my self. But no remote, wrong power cords is a bit of a mess if you ask me.
As an owner of a 1120, I'd just like to comment on the 'mess' part. The 1120 looks, feels and sounds like a quality product, as a customer I've never had that feeling that I've bought something that has not been planned well or a product that is not worth the money I paid for it. Quite the reverse as this is a cheaper one box system, compared to Naim Uniti Atom and also Nad M10, comes with what is probably industry leading room correction and it is so easy to use. It is advertised without a remote and the app is very user friendly. Recently I bought a coffee grinder which came with a EU plug (normal for the grinder) but that also came with a UK plug convertor, maybe this is why I wasn't so shocked by the EU plug with my 1120, but I think this minor issue is worth it for the sound performance you get from the amp.

Of course I paid good money for this amp so I could easily be biased but I would have sent this unit back and got a refund if I felt that I was paying over the odds for something that felt like a mess. It's been much more of a pleasurable purchase than many other things I have bought before.
 

TB Rich

Active Member
DT79, yes I tried the phasing. I had it set at 0. But I did try too set it higher. But both subwoofers from my understanding recommended the phase controls to be at O, zero. This was recommended from the start when placing them correctly in your listing room. Also I had the volume around 9 a clock. But it was acceptable when listing too great recordings like Floyd, Dire Straits. But when trying to play music that not necessarily are bad recordings the volume became too high.
Hi Helix, at the very least anyone with a sub should buy a UMIK-1 and install REW - it’ll allow you to get the sub in the right position in-room, and then further more set the gain, crossover, and phase knobs on the back of the sub in the right position - so to not conflict with your mains (cancelled response).

I’ve for a long time said subs are not needed with (good) floorstanding speakers, and that’s still mostly true for ‘most music’. But, having now properly integrated it in my HiFi and not just for AVR use, then there’s just an extra weight and extension that makes it worth having and using. Done properly it doesn’t change the perceived balance of the speaker or muddy the sound, and yep for a lot of music it’s almost redundant, but, when there’s a track that calls for it then it is so worth it (I’m converted now!).

In theory I could have done as said above with just the mic and lots of messing around on the back of the sub - But - a miniDSP makes that far easier, and with more total accurate control (XO slopes, PEQ, timing etc) to the point that a sub can be perfectly integrated. And with configs if you want you can simply run one with a slight boost (be it gain or a higher crossover etc) for when you’re in the mood.

So in the context of this thread, if you’re in the market therefore for a new amp too, I’m of the opinion that something with room correction is a must listen. Because as good as I have my sub integrated, I’m still at the mercy of a 32hz peak from the mains, and that’s therefore where RP/Dirac can further help.

One area I’m not sure on, is the whole stick your speakers on the back wall and then A/B RoomPerfect on/off - I don’t think there’s much merit in that, because without RoomPerfect you’ve put your speakers in a hugely compromised setup that is going to sound bad! It’s an unfair test so for me at least then I’d want my speakers setup as optimally as I can in room first and then A/B RoomPerfect on/off. It strikes me as a fairer test and if RP improves things in that scenario, then it’s a win for sure. You can always then try the wall position and see how it sounds subjectively, but I wouldn‘t hold stock in the A/B test in that position.
(I think speakers up against the wall look silly anyway so I’d still want them out somewhat!!)
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If the best sound quality is what you are after, rather than maximum output, I'd highly recommend you try a pair of Lyngdorf boundary woofers. If you can place them in the front corners of the room or at least as far apart as your main speakers and set them up with RoomPerfect, you'll get exceptional bass and mid bass performance.

You'll see a lot more about boundary woofers next year as more models become available, but they are designed for optimal timing up to 800Hz, not maximum output below 100Hz like most subs. For music they are will be hands down better than the SVS.
 

DT79

Well-known Member
One area I’m not sure on, is the whole stick your speakers on the back wall and then A/B RoomPerfect on/off - I don’t think there’s much merit in that, because without RoomPerfect you’ve put your speakers in a hugely compromised setup that is going to sound bad! It’s an unfair test so for me at least then I’d want my speakers setup as optimally as I can in room first and then A/B RoomPerfect on/off. It strikes me as a fairer test and if RP improves things in that scenario, then it’s a win for sure. You can always then try the wall position and see how it sounds subjectively, but I wouldn‘t hold stock in the A/B test in that position.
(I think speakers up against the wall look silly anyway so I’d still want them out somewhat!!)
That’s absolutely right, it’s not a fair comparison to A/B RP on and off with the speakers up against the front wall, unless you had already established that was the best position for the speakers before you got a Lyngdorf amp. However I am convinced that Lyngdorf are right that in most cases the best solution is to have the speakers close to the front wall and have RP engaged. If you have time and patience to try the various permutations, then I’m sure the relative performance from worst to best will be:
  • Speakers tight to wall; no RP
  • Speakers in previously established best position; no RP
  • Speakers in previously established best position; with RP
  • Speakers tight to wall; with RP
 

harkpabst

Standard Member
I love the remote, btw. 😍 Looks and feels much better in the flesh than I had expected from the photos.

Layout and features are well thought out. For example, you cannot only use "source up" and "source down" to flip through the enabled inputs. The "analog" and "digital" buttons often provide a handy shortcut (usually more useful for analog, since there are only two, but still). The "digital" button seems to switch to the previous input, if the current input is digital already. Cool.

Some keys remain useless for the 1120 when in amp mode, of course. But e.g. the number pad allows to directly jump to vTuner presets (not just the first six). Sweet. Even the "random" and "repeat" buttons do work (if applicable, e.g. with UPnP).

The Lyngdorf Remote app is more versatile, of course. But it loses connection to the device all the time (and the retry button hardly ever works). Sometimes it does display the play controls, then again it doesn't. The prev, pause next buttons on the real remote always work. :)

Most of this might not be new to 2170 owners, but since the 1120 is a new pet still, I thought I couldd share it anyway.
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
Thanks guys, I appreciate the replies. But I read a test regarding the TDAI 3400. The review said you basically could place your speakers in no zone areas that audiophiles don’t do. Yes, I have my speakers 40 cm from the back wall, if not the bass gets muddy. I read the review in a Norwegian sound/picture magazine about the TDAI 3400.
 

LuniCycle

Standard Member
The Lyngdorf Remote app is more versatile, of course. But it loses connection to the device all the time (and the retry button hardly ever works). Sometimes it does display the play controls, then again it doesn't. The prev, pause next buttons on the real remote always work. :)
Is this anyone else experience with the app? Although obviously I don't know the set up of the OP my experience is that this sort of thing is usually down to poor WiFi. If it is troublesome it could be a deal breaker for the 1120 which on paper is looking like my next system. Is there any reason that a cheapo programmable remote couldn't be set up for volume up and down, play & pause, previous and next track (Red Hot Chilli Peppers button)?
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Is this anyone else experience with the app? Although obviously I don't know the set up of the OP my experience is that this sort of thing is usually down to poor WiFi. If it is troublesome it could be a deal breaker for the 1120 which on paper is looking like my next system. Is there any reason that a cheapo programmable remote couldn't be set up for volume up and down, play & pause, previous and next track (Red Hot Chilli Peppers button)?
I’d have to agree sir. A flaky app is more hair pulling outly infuriating than it should be. But it is.

If it’s not just the WiFi connection, that would force me to need to lash out an extra £80 on the real remote control.

As it happens I would anyway. I’m a mega fan of all technology, but oddly I find flicking through pages on an app annoying even when it works flawlessly.

I’m happy to use one to set up all sorts of gubbins, but once that’s done I want and require a real remote to switch inputs, and, most importantly volume.
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The Lyngdorf app is extremely stable.
If it is dropping out it is a Wi Fi issue.
We use the app daily without issues.
[email protected]
 

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