NEWS: Denon announce AVC-X8500H Pure AV Amplifier

@Jules Interesting point about weight that Dr Julian Scott and others have made. My ancient (bought in 2010) "ultimate" 9-channel Denon AVR-4810 receiver AVR-4810 weighs 19.1 kg. My new (March last year, but still in its box) "ultimate" Denon 9-channel X7200WA receiver weighs 17.8kg. I'm curious about how much this 13-channel machine will weigh. I gather that the feature of greater power and / or more amplifier channels yet less weight may be explained by modern machines using efficient class D or class G amplifier circuitry, rather than older machines that used less efficient, hence heavier, class A/B amplification?
 
@Jules Interesting point about weight that Dr Julian Scott and others have made. My ancient (bought in 2010) "ultimate" 9-channel Denon AVR-4810 receiver AVR-4810 weighs 19.1 kg. My new (March last year, but still in its box) "ultimate" Denon 9-channel X7200WA receiver weighs 17.8kg. I'm curious about how much this 13-channel machine will weigh. I gather that the feature of greater power and / or more amplifier channels yet less weight may be explained by modern machines using efficient class D or class G amplifier circuitry, rather than older machines that used less efficient, hence heavier, class A/B amplification?


D&M (Denon/Marantz) do not use Class D amplification within any of their AV receivers or stereo amps and they all use class A/B amplification.

There's only really Pioneer still using Glass D on their higher tier AV models and Arcam using more exotic hybrid designs of their own concoction.
 
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The weight is on the product information sheet, 23.3kg. No mention of amplification class, so one has to assume Class A/B.
 
@dante01 Thanks for the correction and information.
 
@Mark Hodgkinson I'm assuming that as this is described as a "Pure A/V" amplifier it doesn't have a tuner section? The new Marantz SR8012 receiver also lacks an input for an FM antenna Marantz SR8012 11.2-Channel AV Receiver Review. I know that many people won't miss the FM tuner input on this Denon, but I most certainly will - as I type this I'm listening to Radio 4 via my roof aerial into my Denon AVR-4810. Ah well .....
 
I have the same issue with this as I did with the Marantz 8012....save for the audessey app, these things are using 'ancient' xt32 tech that we had since the days of the 4311, 4520, 7200 etc etc etc and will likely be indistinguishable in terms of sound from offerings as much as 6 years old. Often that's been understandable year after year but with Dirac and Arc having moved the world on considerably, it frustrates me immensely that these cool devices are so hobbled. Frustratingly the implementation of Dirac in Arcam (including the single lower level crossover, single sub eq etc) is also off-putting as is the fact that the there is no OSD in the NADs which use Dirac. I do use Audessey dynamic vol and dynamic equalisation virtually every day however bc I care about my neighbours and sleeping kids and it makes a huge difference and that's not available on DIRAC devices AFAIK whilst DIRAC is operating. I just wish Audessey had moved on more than simply having added an app (WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS AUDESSEY?).
 
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I have the same issue with this as I did with the Marantz 8010....save for the audessey app, these things are using 'ancient' xt32 tech that we had since the days of the 4311, 4520, 7200 etc etc etc and will likely be indistinguishable in terms of sound from offerings as much as 6 years old. Often that's been understandable year after year but with Dirac and Arc having moved the world on considerably, it frustrates me immensely that these cool devices are so hobbled. Frustratingly the implementation of Dirac in Arcam (including the single lower level crossover, single sub eq etc) is also off-putting as is the fact that the there is no OSD in the NADs which use Dirac. I do use Audessey dynamic vol and dynamic equalisation virtually every day however bc I care about my neighbours and sleeping kids and it makes a huge difference and that's not available on DIRAC devices AFAIK whilst DIRAC is operating. I just wish Audessey had moved on more than simply having added an app (WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS AUDESSEY?).
Interesting as I am a fan of audyssey, and my Denon sounds a lot different to my onkyo of yore which also had audyssey albeit a less fancy one.

How does Dirac and ARC benefit over Audyssey? Asking as I don't know.

Also, the Audyssey does separate calibration for each sub,then it does a measurement for them combined.
 
On my Marantz SR8012, just as with any previous room EQ I've experienced, I hated what Audessey did initially.

However, once I d downloaded the app and applied a cut off filter to around 140Hz, everything snapped into place. The bass was EQ nicely while the mid & treble were left untouched... just as I like it.

So, whilst the app might not seam like a big deal, this one function changes everything for me.

On the subject of no tuner... yes the Marantz is the same in the UK, but the US version gets to keep it. This has also been true with previous Denon flagship AV amps, so part of me thinks that excluding it is nothing more than serving a UK tradition while saving a bit of money... its nothing to do with sound quality IMO.

For the record, I bought a Yamaha D500 tuner to go with my Marantz and I'm very happy with it.
 
On my Marantz SR8012, just as with any previous room EQ I've experienced, I hated what Audessey did initially.

However, once I d downloaded the app and applied a cut off filter to around 140Hz, everything snapped into place. The bass was EQ nicely while the mid & treble were left untouched... just as I like it.

So, whilst the app might not seam like a big deal, this one function changes everything for me.

On the subject of no tuner... yes the Marantz is the same in the UK, but the US version gets to keep it. This has also been true with previous Denon flagship AV amps, so part of me thinks that excluding it is nothing more than serving a UK tradition while saving a bit of money... its nothing to do with sound quality IMO.

For the record, I bought a Yamaha D500 tuner to go with my Marantz and I'm very happy with it.
It saves the consumer money evidently. Normally we pay in pounds what they pay in dollars but ours is 700 cheaper.
 
Interesting as I am a fan of audyssey, and my Denon sounds a lot different to my onkyo of yore which also had audyssey albeit a less fancy one.

How does Dirac and ARC benefit over Audyssey? Asking as I don't know.

Also, the Audyssey does separate calibration for each sub,then it does a measurement for them combined.

Yup audessey moved on a LOT from XT to XT32 and it did indeed change the sound appreciably BUT that's my point - that was 6 or so yrs ago - maybe 7

Dirac alters impulse response I understand not just frequency response and along with ARC is widely regarded as superior to Audessey.
 
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My main bugbear with this new amp is that it still has obsolete component inputs, but has decided to ditch digital audio outputs, along with many other makes ( apart from Pioneer. )
 
On my Marantz SR8012, just as with any previous room EQ I've experienced, I hated what Audessey did initially.

However, once I d downloaded the app and applied a cut off filter to around 140Hz, everything snapped into place. The bass was EQ nicely while the mid & treble were left untouched... just as I like it.

So, whilst the app might not seam like a big deal, this one function changes everything for me.

This is the one thing that makes me want to switch out my 4520 for this beastie. I didn't bother with the 7200 bc it doesn't have the app. I use dialogue enhancer which even the sr8012 doesn't have so I didn't go for that bc I didn't want to give it up. But I don't need 13 channels or 13 amps (I use a 3 channel for LCR so would have 5 wasted amps running 7.2.4.). I think what I want is a 7500 ie 7200 with App - feels like the 6 series would be a backward step. Cmon Denon, make me a 7500.
 
This is the one thing that makes me want to switch out my 4520 for this beastie. I didn't bother with the 7200 bc it doesn't have the app. I use dialogue enhancer which even the sr8012 doesn't have so I didn't go for that bc I didn't want to give it up. But I don't need 13 channels or 13 amps (I use a 3 channel for LCR so would have 5 wasted amps running 7.2.4.). I think what I want is a 7500 ie 7200 with App - feels like the 6 series would be a backward step. Cmon Denon, make me a 7500.
What about the 6400?
 
Yup audessey moved on a LOT from XT to XT32 and it did indeed change the sound appreciably BUT that's my point - that was 6 or so yrs ago - maybe 7

Dirac alters impulse response I understand not just frequency response and along with ARC is widely regarded as superior to Aidessey.
What is impulse response?
 
What about the 6400?
Yeah that's what I mean by the 6 series i.e. The 6300 or 6400
I can't recall verbatim but know there are a bunch of things I have on my 4520 that are lacking on the 6 series and so it feels like a backwards step even if inaudible
 
What is impulse response?
It's like when you have just a standard monkey and make it funkiest :)


*The frequency response of a system describes the deviations in dB (as well as in phase) from the original source as a function of frequency. In essence, it describes in detail how each note gets attenuated or boosted by the HiFi system (the amplitude or power response), and also how each note gets shifted slightly differently in time compared to the other notes (the phase response). Together, the power response and the phase response make up the frequency response.

**The impulse response is the inverse Fourier transform of the frequency response. It shows how a system is able to reproduce transients such as drumbeats, claps, and strokes on the guitar, etc.
 
I use dialogue enhancer which even the sr8012 doesn't have so I didn't go for that bc I didn't want to give it up.
I'm pretty sure 'dialogue enhancers' do nothing more fancy than raise the volume of the centre channel, although keeping the control away from the main channel level controls does provide some comfort in being able to easily return it to a calibrated level.

The Marantz does have a separate 'dialogue level adjstment' in the audio menu, so I'd say it has what you want, albeit under a different name.
 
Dialog Level adjust does just adjust the volume of the centre speaker. Dialog level enhancer focusses on the 1k to 3k frequency range, to improve speech, and is available on the 6400.
 
It's like when you have just a standard monkey and make it funkiest :)


*The frequency response of a system describes the deviations in dB (as well as in phase) from the original source as a function of frequency. In essence, it describes in detail how each note gets attenuated or boosted by the HiFi system (the amplitude or power response), and also how each note gets shifted slightly differently in time compared to the other notes (the phase response). Together, the power response and the phase response make up the frequency response.

**The impulse response is the inverse Fourier transform of the frequency response. It shows how a system is able to reproduce transients such as drumbeats, claps, and strokes on the guitar, etc.
This is a good read. Gets interesting half way down.
Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Spoiler alert:



He was hard pressed to notice a difference between xt32 and Dirac.
 
Old skool Denon build quality is truly something. Interesting if this has the same but i doubt it. I had a PMA-S10ii golden beauty and that was something.

In terms of marantz SR and AV build quality, although nice, its nothing special really - and im referring to the 8 series stuff. It is nice but not like some other brands - unless its a sign of brands saving money as time goes on. Iv not had a pioneer since many years but the mid range VSX-2016 (now ancient) was built much more solid.

PM series build quality, is well a totally different league to even the top in the AV range.

Why do we still not get multi channel power output? o_O
 
I'm pretty sure 'dialogue enhancers' do nothing more fancy than raise the volume of the centre channel, .


most of them are more than that. they also try to identify what is voice by identifying signals that are common to more than one speaker and guessing at what is voice versus sound effects.

at the end of the day a lot of it is only guesswork though, can work great with some material, and truly awful with others
 
most of them are more than that. they also try to identify what is voice by identifying signals that are common to more than one speaker and guessing at what is voice versus sound effects.

at the end of the day a lot of it is only guesswork though, can work great with some material, and truly awful with others
Well you learn something new every day. :) Sounds a bit like a potential train wreck though.... lots of other sounds occupy that frequency range. One man's meat...
 
This is a good read. Gets interesting half way down.
Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Spoiler alert:



He was hard pressed to notice a difference between xt32 and Dirac.
Following the thread in detail (thanks for the link) they eventually decide their testing methods were prohibiting the best performance of Dirac. Upon retesting with a new method they preferred Dirac. I used to have the Denon 7200 and was always a bit disappointed with XT32, but to be fair I didn’t have the new app or the flexibility it provides. I now have an Arcam 850 with Dirac, and I find the results a bit more consistent in my room.

From the linked thread:
After quite a bit of additional work with Dirac Live and much listening to the results, an additional comment is in order.

When this initial exercise was done, we were using our best knowledge of both products to put them on an equal footing for the listening test. Since then, further experience with Dirac Live has led me to conclude that while our approach allowed us to get the best possible results from Audyssey XT32, that approach was actually holding Dirac Live back from giving its best results. Using the mic setup patterns suggested by Dirac Research give results which are significantly better than the single mic setup pattern which was used for this test, target curve capabilities and other operational factors aside.

My conclusion is that Dirac Live as implemented in the miniDSP nanoAVR DL is capable of sonically superior results when compared to Audyssey XT32, in terms of frequency response improvement and in terms of soundstage and imaging results.
 
In the Dirac Vs Audyssey debate, the issue is that it is prohibitively expensive or impossible for me at least to get a 13.2 or 11.2 amp with Dirac.

Besides, I consider my self a level below expert in Audyssey set up! Of I do say so myself, and his, I get audiophile results in my media room.
 

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