NEWS: Marantz launches SR5014 and SR6014 AV receivers

pevz

Active Member
The simultaneous multichannel/zone 2 downmix feature has been a long time coming
 

Simba

Distinguished Member
180+W per channel.....surely thats not based on all channels being driven.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
180+W per channel.....surely thats not based on all channels being driven.
No. It never is and very rare do manufacturers actually produce figures when all are being driven. Sounds good though on the advertising blurb.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
180+W per channel.....surely thats not based on all channels being driven.

Specifications for the SR5014:
snapshot002.jpg

Marantz UK | SR5014

Specifications for the SR6014:
snapshot003.jpg

Marantz UK | SR6014



As you can see, the rating that results in the 185 watt figure is one in relation to just one channel driven and handling just a 1kHz signal as opposed to full band audio. The associated 1% THD is also just on the edge of being acceptable.
 
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Jules

Distinguished Member
I feel sorry for the people working at the AV Amp manufacturers, being tasked with coming up with things to add to new models.
My SR8012 already does things I don't use... as long it does Atmos, passes HDR, and sounds good, what more do we really need?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Sometimes you think the hardest task is how to change the 3 to a 4 on the model designation label. My receiver is well over four years old now. I doubt I'll even consider changing, breakdown aside, until HDR10+ pass through becomes available.
 

steve sph

Well-known Member
Sometimes you think the hardest task is how to change the 3 to a 4 on the model designation label. My receiver is well over four years old now. I doubt I'll even consider changing, breakdown aside, until HDR10+ pass through becomes available.

Could HDR10+ passthrough not be added retrospectively via means of a firmware update in the same way eARC has been?
Although maybe even if they could, why would they as folks wouldn't need to buy a new AVR?
I'm convinced a lot of 'improvements' could be added in this way, but I guess it's shooting yourself in the foot if you have a new product to sell.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
In theorey then this may be possible, but it ultimately depends upon the HDMI chipset employed and whether or not the manufacturer can enables this via a software update. None of the AV receiver manufacturers has made any indication as to wheher or not they can update current models or whether they will actually be offering any support for HDR10+.

Most AV receiver manufacturers have previously updated their receiver to make them compliant with other HDR formats if those receiver's included HDMI chipsets that allowed for such updates to be made. They don't appear to have previously withheld updates simply to sell newer models.
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
Could HDR10+ passthrough not be added retrospectively via means of a firmware update in the same way eARC has been?
Although maybe even if they could, why would they as folks wouldn't need to buy a new AVR?
I'm convinced a lot of 'improvements' could be added in this way, but I guess it's shooting yourself in the foot if you have a new product to sell.
But wouldn't they be better not investing the significant amounts of money involved in the launch of a new product? And wouldn't retailers prefer not to have to heavily discount old stock just because the new stock has a new number on it.

A product refresh in this category once every 3 years is surely enough?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
But wouldn't they be better not investing the significant amounts of money involved in the launch of a new product? And wouldn't retailers prefer not to have to heavily discount old stock just because the new stock has a new number on it.

A product refresh in this category once every 3 years is surely enough?
THey churn out a replacement model each and every year anyway and the retailers already have to discount the outgoing models to make room for their replacements.

Denon and Marantz will not however be introducing new models above there SR6014 and AVRX3600 models this year though and will be waiting until next year and the introduction of HDMI version 2.1 before launching new replacements for their higher tier models. I beliece Yamaha are also not introducing a replacement flagship model this year either and they too are waiting until next year and including HDMI version 2.1.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Could HDR10+ passthrough not be added retrospectively via means of a firmware update in the same way eARC has been?
Although maybe even if they could, why would they as folks wouldn't need to buy a new AVR?
I'm convinced a lot of 'improvements' could be added in this way, but I guess it's shooting yourself in the foot if you have a new product to sell.
I doubt very much that my Denon X6200 will ever get such an update so no point in me changing until it's in place on the newer models. Workaround is to have HDMI straight from the player to the TV and just use the receiver for audio, which is what I've done even though my Pioneer LX500 player is still awaiting the HDR10+ update itself. Promised for the autumn, although it was promised for last spring.:rolleyes:
 

daveb975

Well-known Member
Sometimes you think the hardest task is how to change the 3 to a 4 on the model designation label. My receiver is well over four years old now. I doubt I'll even consider changing, breakdown aside, until HDR10+ pass through becomes available.
I agree. I’ve got an SR7010 and I can’t see any reason to change.

You never know what is around the corner of course, but as it stands I can see myself keeping my current AVR for years to come.
 

Scott_Mac

Distinguished Member
I feel sorry for the people working at the AV Amp manufacturers, being tasked with coming up with things to add to new models.
My SR8012 already does things I don't use... as long it does Atmos, passes HDR, and sounds good, what more do we really need?
You have eARC that was the main reason I changed from a 7011 to a 7012. Though ALLM might be nice...
 

CarMad

Member
I wonder when someone mainstream is going to do a multi channel class D AV Receiver and move away from AB.

In these eco times they often use far less power for a much higher power output and the drawnbacks with the latest smoothers / modules has them on a par or ahead for some peoples ears.

I'd certainly be up for a switch if a Denon / Arcam etc. changed tac.
 

Rambles

Distinguished Member
Pioneer are Class D.
 

CarMad

Member
Pioneer are Class D.
So they do I've never really checked them out. But they don't seem to offer much more power unfortunately. I want a class D with enough power to knock me out of my chair with the control but still be refined.

Get a Nord with the tech from a Marantz, Denon, Arcam or Anthem and they would be very potent indeed. The technology done right on a small scale seems expensive but at higher volumes I'm sure costs can come down and it starts to become more ubiquitous.
 

pulpfxn

Member
Specifications for the SR5014:
View attachment 1181779
Marantz UK | SR5014

Specifications for the SR6014:
View attachment 1181780

Marantz UK | SR6014



As you can see, the rating that results in the 185 watt figure is one in relation to just one channel driven and handling just a 1kHz signal as opposed to full band audio. The associated 1% THD is also just on the edge of being acceptable.
As per Marantz a minimum of 70% of the stereo power will be available with 5 channels driven. So in this case at least 70W and 77W.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
As per Marantz a minimum of 70% of the stereo power will be available with 5 channels driven. So in this case at least 70W and 77W.
NO, that indicates that the ratings are expected to be at least 70% accurate and not that you'd get 70% of the 2 channel rated output while driving all channels. They guarantee that you'll get at least 70% of what they stated as being the rated output while driving the quoted channels with the quoted impedance at the stateded THD level, not that you'll get 70% of what is rated while driving more channels than specified.

They don't give any rating relative to all channels driven.
 

GoingGoingGone

Distinguished Member
As per Marantz a minimum of 70% of the stereo power will be available with 5 channels driven. So in this case at least 70W and 77W.
Agree
NO, that indicates that the ratings are expected to be at least 70% accurate and not that you'd get 70% of the 2 channel rated output while driving all channels. They guarantee that you'll get at least 70% of what they stated as being the rated output while driving the quoted channels with the quoted impedance at the stateded THD level, not that you'll get 70% of what is rated while driving more channels than specified.

They don't give any rating relative to all channels driven.
Can't agree.
@pulpfxn stated 5 channels when referencing the 70% guarantee. As the link he gave notes Marantz has the 70% power guarantee, meaning that a minimum of 70% of the stereo power indicated in the specification section will be available when 5 channels are simultaneously used.

Looking at the SR7011 which has a specified 125W for 2 channels (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05%) that should give at least 87.5W for 5 channels if the 70% guarantee is as Marantz states. The bench tests of the SR7011 show
Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 138.7 watts
Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 104.9 watts
Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 75.1 watts

Marantz SR7011 A/V Receiver Review Test Bench

Marantz boasts their 70% guarantee which implies their receivers will be able to deliver 70% of the 2CH rating with 5CH driven. In the case of the SR8012, that would be 98 watts which my tests confirmed (95 watts x 5, 0.1%, 105 watts x 5, 1%).

They
(Marantz) actually sent me their test results (tabulated below) which came out a little higher than mine, likely because they regulate the line voltage and I don't and also because I was using a shared 15A line as noted prior.
5 channel 114W ratio 81.4
7 channel 99.4W ratio 71.0
Marantz SR8012 Bench Tests & Conclusion


While the 140W SR8012 results show 95W vs the 70% guarantee of 98W, the bench test notes It wasn't until after I completed these bench tests did I realize I accidentally used my 15A outlet instead of my 20A outlet to do the power tests. The SR8012 would likely deliver about 5-10% more power with 5 and 7CH driven if a dedicated line was used for these tests. Adding 5%/10% to the test figure gives 99.75W to 104.5W.

So, for the SR7011 and SR8012, tests show the Marantz 70% guarantee is met (albeit at 0.1% distortion) and the meaning of the 70% guarantee is as @pulpfxn notes.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
EDIT


I've found Marantz's actual statement relating to their gurantee:

70% Power Guarantee
Marantz has the 70% power guarantee, meaning that a minimum of 70% of the stereo power indicated in the specification section will be available when 5 channels are simultaneously used. A lot of misunderstanding about power rating has been created by claiming the highest possible output power as a unique selling point. Measurement often has been done on only 1 speaker drive, with lower impedance than 8 ohms and high THD (total harmonic distortion) acceptance. A standard THD value is 0.08%. The lower the better.
Marantz UK | Glossary



So how does this relate to the SR5014 which is a 7 channell receiver and the SR6014 that is a 9 channel receiver? They gurantee 70% of the rated 2 channel rating relative to 5 channels driven.

No idea why they themselves don't simply give a straight answer and state what their products output relative to all channels driven?
 
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GoingGoingGone

Distinguished Member
I've found Marantz's actual statement relating to their gurantee:
Marantz UK | Glossary
The statement which @pulpfxn linked to in their post (and I quoted from in mine). Can't have been that hard to find....;)
So how does this relate to the SR5014 which is a 7 channell receiver and the SR6014 that is a 9 channel receiver? They gurantee 70% of the rated 2 channel rating relative to 5 channels driven.
Same way as it relates to the SR7011 which is a 9 channel AVR and the SR8012 which is an 11 channel AVR. 5 channel simultaneous output is guaranteed to be at least 70% of the specified 2 channel output. If running a 5 channel base layer and up to 4 channel atmos layer the atmos layer most of the time draws little power and isn't in continuous use in the same way as the 5 channel layer is.
No idea why they themselves don't simply give a straight answer and state what their products output relative to all channels driven?
Probably the same reason (marketing) why Anthem, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha also don't do this for their AVRs. And these don't even have a 70% guarantee...:(

Only Arcam (specifies 7 channels) and Emotiva (all channels) spring to mind as companies who do specify all channel (or more channel) driven output.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The statement which @pulpfxn linked to in their post (and I quoted from in mine). Can't have been that hard to find....;)

Same way as it relates to the SR7011 which is a 9 channel AVR and the SR8012 which is an 11 channel AVR. 5 channel simultaneous output is guaranteed to be at least 70% of the specified 2 channel output. If running a 5 channel base layer and up to 4 channel atmos layer the atmos layer most of the time draws little power and isn't in continuous use in the same way as the 5 channel layer is.

Probably the same reason (marketing) why Anthem, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha also don't do this for their AVRs. And these don't even have a 70% guarantee...:(

Only Arcam (specifies 7 channels) and Emotiva (all channels) spring to mind as companies who do specify all channel (or more channel) driven output.

Marantz do not relate the guarantee in relation to more than 5 channels driven. The SR5014 is a 7 channel receiver and the SR6014 is a 9 channel receiver.

Marantz has the 70% power guarantee, meaning that a minimum of 70% of the stereo power indicated in the specification section will be available when 5 channels are simultaneously used.
Why the need for a maths degree and why not simply state the rating relative to all channels driven?

They even have the audacity to suggest they offer the guarantee in response to other manufacturers using the one channel driven rating in their publicity, yet Marantz and Denon use the one channel rating when they abounce a new model and in their own press releases.

You cannot even configure an AV receiver to output one channel and there's no means by which to bridge all channels into one output.
 
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GoingGoingGone

Distinguished Member
Marantz do not relate the guarantee in relation to more than 5 channels driven. The SR5014 is a 7 channel receiver and the SR6014 is a 9 channel receiver.
And neither do they claim to do so. Try re-reading my previous post as to why this is valid for AVRs where up to 4 channels may be used for atmos. SR5014: 5.1.2, SR6014: 5.1.4.
Why the need for a maths degree and why not simply state the rating relative to all channels driven?
I don't even have a maths O level and even I (or rather my calculator) can easily do the specified 2 channel power - 30% = guaranteed 5 channel power calculation. It's hardly rocket science...:)

As I previously noted most manufacturers also don't state all channel driven figure. Why the bee in your bonnet about Marantz...:confused:
They even have the audacity to suggest they offer the guarantee in response to other manufacturers using the one channel driven rating in their publicity, yet Marantz and Denon use the one channel rating when they abounce a new model and in their own press releases.
Try looking at the specs you gave in your post #5. Two channel output is specified in addition to one channel output.

Marantz state "Measurement often has been done on only 1 speaker drive, with lower impedance than 8 ohms and high THD (total harmonic distortion) acceptance
This was certainly true in the past for some manufacturers when the 70% guarantee was first introduced. That Marantz also continues to supply one channel driven figure at high THD is possibly to allow comparision to other manufacturers who do/did show one a channel driven figure.
You cannot even configure an AV receiver to output one channel
Actually you can. Configure as normal 2/5/7/9/11 channels and only connect one channel speaker. Also via their analogue inputs AVRs can be fed only one channel if so desired. Why anyone would want to do this is a conundrum, but it can be done. Possibly to bench test/measure one channel driven output perhaps...;)

Even Emotiva gives one channel driven figures in their specifications. Only companies which don't on a quick check are Arcam and NAD. There may be others but I'd expect none of the major Japanese manufacturers to not provide one channel driven specs.
and there's no means by which to bridge all channels into one output.
And this isn't claimed. Why exactly would you want to bridge a 7, 9 or 11 channel AVR into one output...

You're starting to clutch at straws here and are in full on whataboutery mode imo...
You were wrong in your post #19 "NO, that indicates that the ratings are expected to be at least 70% accurate....not that you'll get 70% of what is rated while driving more channels than specified". Accept that, and move on.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
5.1.2 requires that 7 channels be driven simultaneously and 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 require that 9 channels be driven simultaneously.

Please pray tell with you o Level maths what are the 7 channel ratings for the SR5014 and the 9 channel ratings for the SR6014?

Please reread the post I made. I stated "press releases" and not their specifications posted on their website. The fact that you have to go to the specifications on the website to get the real world ratings is somewhat misleading.


The announcement made here is a press release which states:

SR5014 Key Features:

·7.2-channel receiver - with 180 watts per channel
SR6014 Additional Features:

·9.2-channel receiver - with 185 watts per channel; 11.2ch processing; 11.2ch pre-out
Marantz launches SR5014 and SR6014 AV receivers



Marantz are quite happy to use the one channel driven ratings they critise others for using in their own literature and press releases.
 
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