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NEWS: Samsung's new AI ScaleNet codec supports 8K streaming

geogan

Well-known Member
AI scaling?

Call me cynical but that just sounds like movie's "zoom in - enhance - zoom - enhance" type bull.

And with "dynamic" scaling it will just mean you get 8K highly compressed in more or less static scenes (may be OK), but any sort of motion at all will increase the difference delta and so drop it to 4K, or HD resolution or worse.

Broadcasters can't even manage to broadcast in HD resolution without excess banding and compression artifacts, never mind 4K/8K (remember the famous Game of Thrones episode in last season)
 

THX1138UK

Active Member
Will this never end? We do not need a resolution of 33,177,600 million pixels or technology that helps us pretend that we do.

Useless waste of bandwidth with could be used to provide decent HD broadcasts, never mind 4K UHD. There is no 8K content (except demos). There won't be any content (except in Japan) for years to come (if at all). The AI is to create pixels where no pixels exist. It's just fancy up-scaling to a resolution nobody needs (there may be some very special industrial edge cases - but for consumer TV - completely useless).

I really wish the TV manufacturers would concentrate on perfecting and enhancing the technology, to delivery the standards we *already have*, rather than always trying to invent new ones.

Regards,
James.
 

RMP888

Member
I am looking forward to 8k and the innovations that occur along the way and expect it will not end.

I will enjoy having a couple 8k displays on the wall [eg Samsung Frame] at home with High Res art that reveal ever increasing detail as you get closer to the pictures. Some artists like Monet painted in a blurry fashion eg Stacks of Wheat (End of Summer), but would like to see people walk up to the screen and every paint stroke revealed. Some of the popular painting masters art is truly impressive when up close, which is hard to achieve in the art galleries due to the crowds. The idea that there is a an ideal static point to view the display [tv screen] from disappears with art as it tend to pull you closer.

Security Cameras, now I could have 16 in 1080 mode in one large screen, which is a bit much, but to have the main four of my 4k cameras on as display in their native format will be great, like windows showing me what is going on in the garden or with the animals. At the moment when doing this from another country there is an update lag. so the AI technology will be useful and force others to innovate. a lot of view in security camera is static a lot of the time when they are inside.

Next year by all accounts several phone makers will have high end models that are capable of 8k video on top of the 33mp+ photos that can be done; I do hope that the Samsung S11 will be 8k capable. Which is kind of ironic as just a few years ago I was lugging around a large camera and might again as like the Nikon Z7. But is you want to see example Nikon Z7 45mp picture here is an example Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 S real-world samples

So for the people that want to make their own content, the 8k future looks exciting. Storage wise I might need to upgrade my 8 bay NAS unless the new codec also makes file sizes smaller...
 

mircea

Active Member
This is a joke, I will be ashamed to publish such bullsh*t. From PR:
,,Here’s how it works, in a nutshell: 8K content is compressed to 4K quality using an AI downscaler and transmitted to the user’s TV, which utilizes AI to upscale the content back to 8K quality."

Why couldn't just say something not innacurate, like that they developed a better codec?
Also, I find funny that they hope that streaming companies (Netflix, Disney) will make a stream coded just for Samsung TV's.
 

Rizvan

Well-known Member
I agree with what has already been said, the focus should be on current 4K streaming...... more reliable, better quality and less compression.
Just like the camera industry, higher resolution does not result in a better picture.
 

Will I Aint

Active Member
This can only be a good thing. The potential efficiency of having a new codec will have benefits on the existing overhead for all streaming. The question will be whether or not it will be taken up across the industry. Ogg Vorbis is much more efficient for audio but was for a very long time only used in unpacking audio for games.
 

Boxinghris

Active Member
Nobody will notice the different between 4K and 8K at typical viewing distances or a lot closer.

Wake me up when there’s an affordable 8K UHD projector and streaming.
 

THX1138UK

Active Member
I am looking forward to 8k and the innovations that occur along the way and expect it will not end.

I will enjoy having a couple 8k displays on the wall [eg Samsung Frame] at home with High Res art that reveal ever increasing detail as you get closer to the pictures. Some artists like Monet painted in a blurry fashion eg Stacks of Wheat (End of Summer), but would like to see people walk up to the screen and every paint stroke revealed. Some of the popular painting masters art is truly impressive when up close, which is hard to achieve in the art galleries due to the crowds. The idea that there is a an ideal static point to view the display [tv screen] from disappears with art as it tend to pull you closer.

Security Cameras, now I could have 16 in 1080 mode in one large screen, which is a bit much, but to have the main four of my 4k cameras on as display in their native format will be great, like windows showing me what is going on in the garden or with the animals. At the moment when doing this from another country there is an update lag. so the AI technology will be useful and force others to innovate. a lot of view in security camera is static a lot of the time when they are inside.

Next year by all accounts several phone makers will have high end models that are capable of 8k video on top of the 33mp+ photos that can be done; I do hope that the Samsung S11 will be 8k capable. Which is kind of ironic as just a few years ago I was lugging around a large camera and might again as like the Nikon Z7. But is you want to see example Nikon Z7 45mp picture here is an example Nikon Z 14-30mm F4 S real-world samples

So for the people that want to make their own content, the 8k future looks exciting. Storage wise I might need to upgrade my 8 bay NAS unless the new codec also makes file sizes smaller...
I honestly cannot see the point of an 8K resolution screen on a Smart 'Phone. Over 33 million pixels on a tiny screen - what is the advantage?

What benefits do you perceive this will deliver? Perhaps I'm missing the point or some major technological advantage is eluding me. I could see how 8K resolution could help with things such as VR, although I thought VR was deemed a failure on Smart 'Phones?

Smart 'Phone camera technology is impressive, but a small lens on a Smart 'Phone (even with lots of AI processing), can't deliver the same image quality as a dedicated camera with a range of interchangeable lenses. A Smart 'Phone camera is more than good enough for day to day use - I use my Digital SLR far less than I used to, but for events such as airshows or capturing the action at a Grand Prix, there is no comparison.

Regards,
James.
 

RMP888

Member
I didn't mean to infer that the phone will have a 8k screen as I see the smart phone as a capture device, the display device being the TV panel and agree they cannot [yet] beat the outputs from a good Digital SLR in good hands. The phone camera benefits as I see it of capturing so much information, will be what the likes of phone manufactures can computationally do with that information; AI manipulating picture post capture in ways that I cannot yet imagine. Not that I am that comfortable with the ability to manipulate to distort reality. eg De aging technology in the The Irishman is slippery slope.

However what I am eager for, is to see good high res photos of art on a good tv screen or several TV screens around the house.
 

bhobba

Member
This is nothing new. ISIZE has been using AI down-scaling, transmitting the down-scaled version, followed by AI up-scaling to increase quality and/or reduce bit-rate:

Notice the 8k example. By down-scaling by 3/4 x 3/4 impressive gains are obtained in the quality for the same bit-rate. Of course by down-scaling 8k to 4k its 1/2 x 1/2 and the same 4k bit-rate so the 8k quality likely will not be 93 VMAF in the above, which is perceptually lossless, but should still be good.

Also note since this is down-scaled 8k the 4k quality itself would be improved substantially eg:
'On the 4K native content, people complained about the quality of the capture, but the 8K captured content down covered to 4K and played back on the 8K TV had quality that was close to the native 8K content. This proves that a 8K-to-4K down convert with a 4K transmission and a quality up-scaling at the 8K TV is a viable option, if bandwidth is critical.”

Note, although not made clear, the down-scaled content on a 4k TV is better as well.

So, hopefully you not only have 8k for those with screen sizes where you can see a difference, and for those with 8k not really large enough (I have a 8k 65 inch Samsung that I tried 8k on via USB and down-scaled 4k. Indeed there is not much in it at usual viewing distances) but 4k quality will be improved for the rest of us.

Thanks
Bill
 
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