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NEWS: Xbox Series X, more specs confirmed

adbailey18

Well-known Member
I will definitely be buying day one, I'm hoping for around £449 (less is obviously better but doubtful), but I won't be too shocked if it's £499.
 

Flawed Tactics

Active Member
Day One here, microsoft are welcome to my money as things stand.

True generational leaps like this wont be cheap i dont think, but for what we will be getting, it should be well worth the price, whatever that may be.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
This will easily handle 4K 60FPS, it’s more powerful then the RTX 2080 graphics card. So will handle Ray Tracing well too. Microsoft are definitely gaining more of my interest at present as Sony’s been absolutely silent..
 

geogan

Well-known Member
This will easily handle 4K 60FPS, it’s more powerful then the RTX 2080 graphics card. So will handle Ray Tracing well too. Microsoft are definitely gaining more of my interest at present as Sony’s been absolutely silent..
I don't think any current hardware can handle ray tracing well at all. Every game that uses it, uses a very limited, cut down, compromised tiny patches of refection (puddles, glass), and some limited global illumination, or some ray-traced shadows.

It is a case of, you can have one of the above and no more, and even then your frame-rate will at least be halved.

True raytracing is full scene, every pixel, using full global path traced illumination (for full lighting, shadows & reflections).

There is nothing that can do that right now... and guaranteed 100% these new console hardware cannot do that either.

And definitely not anywhere like 60 or 120 FPS.

There is no magic there - the hardware is no better than PC hardware right now.
 

adbailey18

Well-known Member
Correct for the most part but RDNA 2 is not available on any current hardware I believe?
 

RTC89

Well-known Member
Interesting read on the specs. Can't see much about the ps5 but seen rumours ages ago there new system is around 9 FLOPS.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
I don't think any current hardware can handle ray tracing well at all. Every game that uses it, uses a very limited, cut down, compromised tiny patches of refection (puddles, glass), and some limited global illumination, or some ray-traced shadows.

It is a case of, you can have one of the above and no more, and even then your frame-rate will at least be halved.

True raytracing is full scene, every pixel, using full global path traced illumination (for full lighting, shadows & reflections).

There is nothing that can do that right now... and guaranteed 100% these new console hardware cannot do that either.

And definitely not anywhere like 60 or 120 FPS.

There is no magic there - the hardware is no better than PC hardware right now.
I don’t think you can guarantee anything, considering you can’t actually buy the GPU tech the Series X will be using.. so it’s not in the market.
It’ll handle it just fine, most people are heavily underestimating these consoles and the fact games will be optimised for them.
 

KirkSi

Distinguished Member
From reading I did a while ago with the Navi 1 GPU you get 1.4X efficiency gains over the GCN architecture. A Navi 2 GPU is then supposed ('cause it's not out yet in PC!) to be 1.2X more efficient than Navi 1. So a 12TF Navi 1 GPU would be the equivalent of a 16.8TF GCN GPU. A 12TF Navi 2 GPU is then equivalent to a 20.16TF GCN GPU (the architecture we've currently got in the One X).

This is assuming that the efficiency gains I saw quoted were correct though. I may have understated the gains Navi 1 has over GCN, I've actually seen it quoted as high as 1.5X. The Navi 2 gains over Navi 1 are unknown though. I think these were claims directly from AMD so I'm sure they quoted figures that put their new product in the best light.
 

tonyk79

Well-known Member
Interesting read on the specs. Can't see much about the ps5 but seen rumours ages ago there new system is around 9 FLOPS.
That would allow for roughly 2x and 5x TFlops increase over their current consoles so it seems very plausible and I think they are going to try and come in at £399 max on their pricing again so given Sony’s financial position I can’t see them producing the equivalent of Series X and taking a loss on it as Sony failed when trying to peddle the PS3 at big money at launch.

I would expect a new VR headset and possibly coming as a bundle with the console similar to Kinect with Xbox One.
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
From reading I did a while ago with the Navi 1 GPU you get 1.4X efficiency gains over the GCN architecture. A Navi 2 GPU is then supposed ('cause it's not out yet in PC!) to be 1.2X more efficient than Navi 1. So a 12TF Navi 1 GPU would be the equivalent of a 16.8TF GCN GPU. A 12TF Navi 2 GPU is then equivalent to a 20.16TF GCN GPU (the architecture we've currently got in the One X).

This is assuming that the efficiency gains I saw quoted were correct though. I may have understated the gains Navi 1 has over GCN, I've actually seen it quoted as high as 1.5X. The Navi 2 gains over Navi 1 are unknown though. I think these were claims directly from AMD so I'm sure they quoted figures that put their new product in the best light.
I don't think there are direct comparisons or definitive calculations that make sense.

The thing is - if Sony's is RDNA1 which is possible - and around the same TFLOP as X which to me is a given - then you're potentially looking at up to a 20% difference in efficiency.
 

RTC89

Well-known Member
That would allow for roughly 2x and 5x TFlops increase over their current consoles so it seems very plausible and I think they are going to try and come in at £399 max on their pricing again so given Sony’s financial position I can’t see them producing the equivalent of Series X and taking a loss on it as Sony failed when trying to peddle the PS3 at big money at launch.

I would expect a new VR headset and possibly coming as a bundle with the console similar to Kinect with Xbox One.
Sony need to sort there cooling out this gen ps4s any verison even the new pro cuh7216, have been terrible for noise ive had every single one of them although i think the ps4 slim was the quietest of the lot that was by no means as quite as any of my xbox's
 

tonyk79

Well-known Member
Sony need to sort there cooling out this gen ps4s any verison even the new pro cuh7216, have been terrible for noise ive had every single one of them although i think the ps4 slim was the quietest of the lot that was by no means as quite as any of my xbox's
Agree 100%, my PS4 Pro is like an aircraft taking off! I would like to see that issue sorted and a new bigger controller or at least the option to have a genuine controller with thumb layout as per Xbox.
 

RTC89

Well-known Member
Agree 100%, my PS4 Pro is like an aircraft taking off! I would like to see that issue sorted and a new bigger controller or at least the option to have a genuine controller with thumb layout as per Xbox.
I think the thumb stick layout won't change with playstation to be honest. Whatever the outcome on specs am sure both systems will sell well and hit targets.
 

geogan

Well-known Member
It’ll handle it just fine, most people are heavily underestimating these consoles and the fact games will be optimised for them.
Anytime I read something I that, I just think... this guy really doesn't understand what true full ray-tracing is, or how difficult it is to do properly (and not just a fake hacked cut-down version that is enough to fool most people). "ray-tracing" currently is just a marketing buzzword where they don't have to do anything properly and its enough to sell it. I mean it has been faked and pre-baked for years now in current game engines and done so well, people now can't tell the difference from the pre-baked and the real-time version. And they won't be able to tell the difference in the new consoles either. So games will get away with it, and consumers will be tricked into thinking their cheap $500 console is actually producing 120 ray-traced 4K frames a second. No amount of "optimization" will make a cheap graphics GPU be able to do something that Hollywood level render farms can't do in real-time.
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
Anytime I read something I that, I just think... this guy really doesn't understand what true full ray-tracing is, or how difficult it is to do properly (and not just a fake hacked cut-down version that is enough to fool most people). "ray-tracing" currently is just a marketing buzzword where they don't have to do anything properly and its enough to sell it. I mean it has been faked and pre-baked for years now in current game engines and done so well, people now can't tell the difference from the pre-baked and the real-time version. And they won't be able to tell the difference in the new consoles either. So games will get away with it, and consumers will be tricked into thinking their cheap $500 console is actually producing 120 ray-traced 4K frames a second. No amount of "optimization" will make a cheap graphics GPU be able to do something that Hollywood level render farms can't do in real-time.
That's as may be, but the specs MS just announced for their Xbox Series X are currently more advanced than any AMD card you can buy today - so whilst the console may be "cheap" or whatever and I agree about ray-tracing generally and what corners will need cutting - this isn't some weak console like the PS4 or XB1 were. This is cutting edge high end PC level.
 

jumpman 1972

Standard Member
Cannot wait to see just how good the games look. I am willing to wait 18 - 24 months before i buy one but if the games look significantly better than xbox one then i will buy one right away.
 

tonyk79

Well-known Member
Anytime I read something I that, I just think... this guy really doesn't understand what true full ray-tracing is, or how difficult it is to do properly (and not just a fake hacked cut-down version that is enough to fool most people). "ray-tracing" currently is just a marketing buzzword where they don't have to do anything properly and its enough to sell it. I mean it has been faked and pre-baked for years now in current game engines and done so well, people now can't tell the difference from the pre-baked and the real-time version. And they won't be able to tell the difference in the new consoles either. So games will get away with it, and consumers will be tricked into thinking their cheap $500 console is actually producing 120 ray-traced 4K frames a second. No amount of "optimization" will make a cheap graphics GPU be able to do something that Hollywood level render farms can't do in real-time.
‘While I get what you are saying and agree with some of it I think you are being a tad harsh on this console. It won’t be able to do 4K 120fps Ray Traced or not, that’s a given but what it will do is 4k 60fps for around £499-599. It will be more powerful by some way than the most common GPU used on steam (GTX 1060) and only 1% use a 2080 which this is rumoured to be around Performance wise.

This Xbox is also using RDNA 2 so we have no benchmarks to show how much (if any) that it improves from the current AMD cards on offer. As it stands (from the leaks) this could potentially be the 3rd fastest GPU behind only the 2080ti and 2080 and they are cards costing well over £500. This will be a good thing as it forces Nvidia to price cut and get competitive again just as AMD have done to Intel.

For Raytracing to take off we need graphic engines and games coded with this from the ground up so I don’t think we will see this for another 4-5 years in proper form.
 

Fake Shempz

Active Member
I simply cannot wait to be able to play Project Gotham Racing 2 again (online multiplayer would be a bonus!)
 

geogan

Well-known Member
That's as may be, but the specs MS just announced for their Xbox Series X are currently more advanced than any AMD card you can buy today - so whilst the console may be "cheap" or whatever and I agree about ray-tracing generally and what corners will need cutting - this isn't some weak console like the PS4 or XB1 were. This is cutting edge high end PC level.
Yes i agree this new XBox is literally a high-end AMD based PC... and I have first hand experience with their latest CPUs (use 3900X myself) so I know how good they are. And it is more powerful spec than the new Playstation too. But my point is, even the fastest, most expensive PC right now, with a 2080Ti (or one of NVidia pro models) can't do true real-time full scene raytracing even at 1080P, especially not in 4K resolution. So I seriously doubt a console will be able to do it either, as I have explained in previous post. But it won't stop the marketing men from selling it to kids as "4K 120FPS real time raytracing" capable... and for some reason, the industry lets them (and others) away with it.
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
Yes i agree this new XBox is literally a high-end AMD based PC... and I have first hand experience with their latest CPUs (use 3900X myself) so I know how good they are. And it is more powerful spec than the new Playstation too. But my point is, even the fastest, most expensive PC right now, with a 2080Ti (or one of NVidia pro models) can't do true real-time full scene raytracing even at 1080P, especially not in 4K resolution. So I seriously doubt a console will be able to do it either, as I have explained in previous post. But it won't stop the marketing men from selling it to kids as "4K 120FPS real time raytracing" capable... and for some reason, the industry lets them (and others) away with it.
I'm not disagreeing really. Except that - its not as simple as "can't". They'll do stuff with limits that will improve the lighting but not be as good as a ray-traced scene made by a supercomputer.

And the thing is that it won't matter - because all anyone cares about is "do games look better" answer will be yes - and that will be that.
 

rowedav

Distinguished Member
Yes i agree this new XBox is literally a high-end AMD based PC... and I have first hand experience with their latest CPUs (use 3900X myself) so I know how good they are. And it is more powerful spec than the new Playstation too. But my point is, even the fastest, most expensive PC right now, with a 2080Ti (or one of NVidia pro models) can't do true real-time full scene raytracing even at 1080P, especially not in 4K resolution. So I seriously doubt a console will be able to do it either, as I have explained in previous post. But it won't stop the marketing men from selling it to kids as "4K 120FPS real time raytracing" capable... and for some reason, the industry lets them (and others) away with it.
Sounds a bit like the "checkerboard 4K" vs "Native 4K" debates. Does it really matter? If the games look better with fake/pseudo raytracing, then I don't really mind whether its true raytracing or not.
 

RTC89

Well-known Member
Yes i agree this new XBox is literally a high-end AMD based PC... and I have first hand experience with their latest CPUs (use 3900X myself) so I know how good they are. And it is more powerful spec than the new Playstation too. But my point is, even the fastest, most expensive PC right now, with a 2080Ti (or one of NVidia pro models) can't do true real-time full scene raytracing even at 1080P, especially not in 4K resolution. So I seriously doubt a console will be able to do it either, as I have explained in previous post. But it won't stop the marketing men from selling it to kids as "4K 120FPS real time raytracing" capable... and for some reason, the industry lets them (and others) away with it.
I just want 60fps solid stable on all games not arsed about anything else. if they can deliver that ill be happy
 

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