Answered Overscan on Tivo

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There you go again. You should have purchased Betamax.

Ironically, Betamax actually failed because it was a premium product, not because it was low quality. It provided better pictures quality but was more expensive. The early tapes sacrificed length in favour of image quality, so they couldn't store a single feature film on one tape.

VHS was lower quality but the early tapes were longer and they were much more affordable.
 
Sunny, Panacota and Singsong are all good makes :nono:

Half of them come out of the same factories
The original Bush company went out of business over a decade ago. I could look it up for you. Current Bush TVs are just badged imports either of Chinese or Turkish origin which are sold through low cost vendors. Often the same set of electronics will appear in several different branded TVs. Sometimes this can be demonstrated in stores where the remote for one brand of TV appears to be recognised by another. Basically you get what you pay for.

These days, the premium sets and the regular ones are all produced by the same factories in China, by the same people on the same production lines. That goes for the premium sets and the budget sets.

Take a Sony apart and you'll find that a lot of the same components are found in no name brands.

It's the same with a lot of electronics. It's amazing how many products at all levels depend on components from companies like Foxcon.

I think that the reason that the remote controls are compatible is more a deliberate choice. Companies standardise remote controls because 1) customers want to be able to use universal remote control features, and 2) Because the last thing that you want is for your TV remote to interfere with your Sky Box.
 
and then PerfectBlue97 woke up and realised it was all a dream :)


You've an obsession with faults not being with your TV and the source being at fault. The reason you have the issue you have has nothing at all to do with overscan or the source. Your TV is incorrectly mapping the pixels coming into it to its panel. This isn't even something you have control over and is due to a inherant hardware fault with your TV.

As already said, Bush are not really a manufacturer, they source TV's from very cheap no name mass manufacturers in Asia and Turkey. There's no design or innovation carried out by Bush themselves and the brand is simply a name stuck on the TVs to make it appear as though the products eminate from a unified manufacturer.

No, the major manufacturers have their own plants and design teams and don't use the same plants where bush products are made. Bush do not source components from them and they don't make TV for Bush.

The Bush brand name disappeared from the British market during the 1980s. The brand was purchased by Alba Group in 1986 (now known as Harvard International), selling goods produced in China and some televisions made in Turkey.

In 2008, the Bush brand name, along with Alba, were purchased by Home Retail Group, the parent company of Homebase and Argos, for £15.25 million. As a result, the former Alba Group has now been renamed to Harvard International. Harvard International still owns the Bush brand in Oceania.

Its just a cheap way for Argos to stick lables on goods they buy. Bush is Argos's own brand, a bit like George at Asda, but for cheap electronics sold at Argos.

Most of Bush's TVs are made by a Turkish conglomerate called Vestel.

Vestel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Friends wife bought him a Bush 48"hd tv a few years ago. He asked me over to see if I could tweak the pic as he was not impressed. It really wasn't very good and you could't get it any better no matter what you adjusted. So I have to disagree with you regarding your take on cheaper tv brands.

I once ate in a McDonald's that smelled funny. Therefore all fast food restaurant's must smell funny?

You can't judge all Bush TVs based on a single bad experience.

The thing that you're missing is that I'm perfectly happy with the picture quality on my TV. This the first any only time that I've ever had picture quality that I'm not happy with and it's due to the source, not to the TV.

99% of the material being watched on this TV is either SD TV, non-Bluray DVDs, and Youtube videos. Spending any more on a TV is just a waste of money

You are just going to have to accept that I'm a casual viewer who really doesn't consider ultra sharp images and ultra high colour accuracy to be all that important.
 
99% of the material being watched on this TV is either SD TV, non-Bluray DVDs, and Youtube videos. Spending any more on a TV is just a waste of money

So buying a TV that can correctly map pixels to its panel is a waste of money?

AS already said, you got what you paid for.
 
and then PerfectBlue97 woke up and realise it was all a dream :)


You've an obsession with faults not being with your TV and the source being at fault. The reason you have the issue you have has nothing at all to do with overscan or the source. Your TV is incorrectly mapping the pixels coming into it to its panel. This isn't even something you have control over and is due to a inherant hardware fault with your TV.

As already said, Bush are not really a manufacturer, they source TV's from very cheap no name mass manufacturers in Asia and Turkey. There's no design or innovation carried out by Bush themselves and the brand is simply a name stuck on the TVs to make it appear as though the products emirate from a unified manufacturer.

No, the major manufacturers have their own plants and design teams. Bush do not source components from them and they don't make TV for Bush.

I think that you've got things backwards, and that you're reading WAY too much into this thread. Take a breather, tone down the emotions, you're blood pressure will thank you. There's no need to dial this up to 11. You're getting way too worked up over a simple overscan issue.

This isn't an issue with something being broken. There was no time when I wasn't experiencing overscan on Tivo. I didn't turn the TV on one day and find that there was overscan there that wasn't there before.

I upgraded my V+ box to a Tivo. The V+ Box was perfectly OK, and the Tivo has overscan. If I plug the V+ back in there will be no overscan. So it's not a damaged component.

My TV maps pixels the same way for all devices. It's not smart enough to tell the difference between them. The Tivo box is sending the overscan and my TV isn't correcting it, as it's not smart enough to do so. So I need to tweak the setting on the Tivo not to send the overscan.

I can't correct it on the TV as it doesn't have the ability to do it.

Also, I suggest you take the back off a couple of TVs from Sony and Toshiba. You'll find that all but the most cutting edge models are based on components from a company called Foxconn.

Sony has a plant that produces a few high end components, and does some high end assembly, but they don't - for example - produce most of the components.

They come from Chinese factories.
 
AS said, you're the only person having this issue so it isn't an issue with the TiVo or the Virgin Media cable service. I don;t have this issue, but then again, I don't own a Bush TV :)

Sony, Samsung , LG and Panasonic do not manufacturer TVs for Argos (Bush). Bush TVs are mainly made by a Turkish concern called Vestel. Vestel do not make TVs for Sony, Samsung , LG or. Panasonic.
 
So buying a TV that can correctly map pixels to its panel is a waste of money?

If it were pixel mapping, wouldn't the same problem be evident on every device that I plug in?

You're basically pulling the most convenient answer out of the air based on an extremely loose description of a problem. You don't even know what model my TV is. In fact, you haven't even asked basic questions, like am I connecting through an amp.

Do you know if MY TV upscales?
 
Pulling things out of the air is your trick. I asked you at the very begining of this thread if your TV has an ASpect ratio or picture size adjustment setting to which you categorically stated it hadn't. You then went on to reveal it had one. Now you are trying to tell people who know how and where gooods are made that Bush TVs are actually no different to most TVs made by Sony, LG, Samsung or Panasonic. The plants putting the TVs together for the likes of Sony, LG, Samsung and Panasonic only asssemble goods branded as such. The panels used by Bush may originate from LG or Samsung because they sell panels to other manufacturers, but these panels will be very basic and not cutting edge tech. Apart from this, the processing is what differentiates TVs these days and none of the major manufacturers are selling their processing to their rivals.
 
Do you know if MY TV upscales?

All modern flat panel LCD TVs upscale. How do you think lesser resolution video content is mapped to a panel with a higher resolution? Again, please stop trying to formulate arguements based upon your misunderstanding of what is happening or on how you think a TV works.

I shouldn't have to ask you anything and this isn't a quiz show, you should be giving the information needed to begin with without me having to interrogate you :) As said, I asked a question and got an answer that then turned out to not be the case. I think you wont be happy until someone simply says, "yes you're right, it is the TiVo at fault and your Bush TV is excellent"?

You don't even know what model TV it is either. I know this because I asked you this already!

I think it would be wrong of me to rule out that you could however have a faulty TiVo STB and you should call out Virgin to check this out for you. If they however test another box and it still results in the exact same issue then it is the TV and not something to do with the box or anything to do with Virgin Media cable TV.
 
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I upgraded my V+ box to a Tivo. The V+ Box was perfectly OK, and the Tivo has overscan. If I plug the V+ back in there will be no overscan. So it's not a damaged component.

My TV maps pixels the same way for all devices. It's not smart enough to tell the difference between them. The Tivo box is sending the overscan and my TV isn't correcting it, as it's not smart enough to do so. So I need to tweak the setting on the Tivo not to send the overscan.

I can't correct it on the TV as it doesn't have the ability to do it.

The TiVo doesn't 'send overscan', overscan is something the TV does, nothing else. As explained clearly in the post I linked to earlier.
Here it is again HD 101: Overscan and why all TVs do it. The 3rd sentence in, seems to be where you're at - "and some even get down right confrontational when they first learn that all TVs do it".
You're TV doesn't map pixels the same way for all sources otherwise SD sources would only display as a small box surrounded by a big thick border.
You've only noticed your TV overscanning when watching TiVo due to the menu layout. It will also do out with your V+ and DVD but you've just not noticed because all menus have been kept away from the screen edge.
That bottom line in the menu that is cut off halfway through Iis done on purpose to let you know there are more options below. What happens when you scroll down to it? It moves to the top before you reach it. Even with 1:1 pixel mapping that bottom line of text fades towards the bottom.


In normal default picture mode
ImageUploadedByAVForums1465553512.218415.jpg


In one on one pixel mapping mode
ImageUploadedByAVForums1465553548.290008.jpg


You are really not missing much.
Unfortunately on some TVs you can't do anything about it.
 
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AS said, you're the only person having this issue so it isn't an issue with the TiVo or the Virgin Media cable service. I don;t have this issue, but then again, I don't own a Bush TV :)

Sony, Samsung , LG and Panasonic do not manufacturer TVs for Argos (Bush). Bush TVs are mainly made by a Turkish concern called Vestel. Vestel do not make TVs for Sony, Samsung , LG or. Panasonic.

You're throwing a few starmen into the mix.

Pretty much all of your early posts refer exclusively to the setting on the Tivo. You even post screenshots for a Tivo. It's pretty clear that we're not talking about something that's "broken". We're not even talking about an actual technical problem. It's just a setting that needs adjusting.

The output from my old V+ box was perfect, but I get overscan on the Tivo. The only thing that's actually changed is the Tivo. Therefore the issue is from the media source, not the display.

It's probable that people on this specific forum don't have the same issue as me because this is a forum for audio and video enthusiasts, they either have newer model TVs that automatically adjust the overscan, or they simply adjust the TV themselves and don't need to ask for assistance.

Also, it's pretty obvious that large manufacturers don't "made TVs for Argos", why would you even need to make a statement like that? That's like saying that Kellogg doesn't make cereal for Tesco.

On the Otherhand, Sony doesn't make a lot of it's own TVs either. It has a deal with Foxconn. Quite a lot of Sony's hardware comes from Chinese manufacturers that you've never heard of.
 
They do now.
The current Panasonic C300 series are budget models and are rebadged Vestels.

I think the part of most significance of that being "budget models". Vestel don't make Panasonic TVs wholesale and then then rebadge them as Bush for sale via Argos. Neither will you get the proprietary processing incorporated into the leading brand TVs onboard a Bush TV set. The idea that you ae getting the same higher end TV as made by another manufacturer for less if buying a Bush TV is nonsense.
 
You aren't telling me something I don't already know.
That was why I mentioned the C300 series specifically.
 
Pretty much all of your early posts refer exclusively to the setting on the Tivo. You even post screenshots for a Tivo. It's pretty clear that we're not talking about something that's "broken". We're not even talking about an actual technical problem. It's just a setting that needs adjusting.

No it isn't. You made the adjustments that should have resulted in you not having this issue yet you still have it. Set your TV to 16:9 and the TiVo as I posted and you should not be experiencing any overscan or picture zoom.

This isn't a matter of someone else's TV having different reactions to the same settings, these settings are universal and have the exact same effect irrespective of the TV being used. Your TV isn't apply the settings correctly so it is at fault. Again, what do you want people to tell you, that your TV isn't the problem when it is?

I've a TiVo and I don't have this issue. I had a V+ and that didn't have this issue. Neither box had any such issue with any of the 3 flat panel TVs I've had and used them with. Neither do I see multiple instances of this being posted to this forum. Your issue is isolated to you, either because you a faulty STB or because your TV doesn't correctly map pixels to its panel.

If I tell you otherwise I'd be telling you lies.
 
I think it would be wrong of me to rule out that you could however have a faulty TiVo STB and you should call out Virgin to check this out for you. If they however test another box and it still results in the exact same issue then it is the TV and not something to do with the box or anything to do with Virgin Media cable TV.

I think that we established long ago that this is the normal behaviour or a Tivo, and that my TV simply isn't automatically adjusting the picture in the same way that a newer model would.

One of the earlier posters said it best.
 
Now you are trying to tell people who know how and where gooods are made that Bush TVs are actually no different to most TVs made by Sony, LG, Samsung or Panasonic.

Not at all, what I'm actually saying is that most of the big manufacturers only manufacture a certain core components. They farm out production for there rest to component manufacturers in places like China. The older the model the more components will be purchased from independent manufacturers.

Sony's newest most cutting edge model will have some pretty propitiatory technology in it that will only be produced by a certain number of plants. After year or so those plants will be producing the next big thing and yesterday's components will be farmed out to companies like Foxconn.

The older\lower budget the product, the more of it will be produced by other companies.

The plants putting the TVs together for the likes of Sony, LG, Samsung and Panasonic only asssemble goods branded as such.

That's simply not affordable these days, and given the number of companies that own several brands would be kind of strange.
 
I think that we established long ago that this is the normal behaviour or a Tivo, and that my TV simply isn't automatically adjusting the picture in the same way that a newer model would.

One of the earlier posters said it best.

The TiVo is not outputting anything with overscan. You can't even comprehend what overscan actually is. The settings being used onboard both the TiVo and or the TV would and should not apply any zooming or overscan.
 
The TiVo doesn't 'send overscan', overscan is something the TV does, nothing else. As explained clearly in the post I linked to earlier.
Here it is again HD 101: Overscan and why all TVs do it. The 3rd sentence in, seems to be where you're at - "and some even get down right confrontational when they first learn that all TVs do it".

I understand that Overscan is the effect that we see, rather than something that's sent.

You've only noticed your TV overscanning when watching TiVo due to the menu layout. Your V+ and DVD will also do it but you've not noticed because all menus have been kept away from the screen edge.

I'm noticing it more from the TV programs. When you have adverts the bottom right hand corner is off the side of the screen so you can't see all of the terms and conditions, and channel logos go off the side of the screen.

I'm not able to provide examples of this, so it was easier to provide an example from the menu as more people could compare it against their own systems.

Unfortunately on some TVs you can't do anything about it.

I came to the same conclusion somewhere on the first page of this thread when somebody posted that there was no manual adjustment settings on the Tivo.

It's just annoying that this thread has become so hostile, part way through it seems to have become a thread to bash Bush.

I think that some people feel threatened when other people come along and aren't interested in fancy bells and whistles, or who don't want to show off their latest purchase.

I guess it's like when somebody goes to a Star Trek convention because they live nearby, and it's something to do, and all of the uber-fans get upset because their lives revolve around the show and they don't like the idea of a casual viewer.

I have the answer to my question, so I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread. There's nothing to be gained from reading any further replies as the answer is simple. There is no manual adjustment on the Tivo box, so I can't adjust the picture.
 
I think that we established long ago that this is the normal behaviour or a Tivo, and that my TV simply isn't automatically adjusting the picture in the same way that a newer model would.

One of the earlier posters said it best.

I think you're failing to grasp what overscan is. It's nothing to do with the behaviour of the TiVo. The only thing TiVo have done that annoys some is allow the text in menus to run to the bottom edge of the screen which then highlights the fact that the TV is slightly scaling the picture to cut out edges of the image. I'm willing to bet you'd never heard of overscan until googling your perceived problem with your TiVo box.
Most people's first experience of overscan (meaning first time they've realised it exists) is when they connect a PC to there TV via HDMI and the image appears slightly zoomed. Then start messing with their graphics card settings when it's the TV causing the issue not the PC.
Thinking about that, does your TV have a PC mode in the picture preference settings as this may solve your problem?
 
I'm noticing it more from the TV programs. When you have adverts the bottom right hand corner is off the side of the screen so you can't see all of the terms and conditions, and channel logos go off the side of the screen.

If you have text off the screen edge during ads or channel logos part missing them overscan is not your issue as broadcasters are well aware of it and make sure everything is visible. In fact most channel logos are kept well in so they are not cropped even on a 4:3 screen.
May be stating the obvious but have you tried rebooting your box?
 
My question has been answered. There is no manual adjustment. It's just something that I will have to put up with.

I'm unsubscribing from this tread as I think that tempers are too high.
 
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