Question Persuade me not to return my Arcam SA10 Intergrated Amplifier!

malcolmduffin

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Hi folks,

I have a 15ft x 10ft work studio at home where I have my 2nd system. Currently a Tidal via Bluesound Node 2i into Marantz PM6006 UK Edition Amp and Acoustic Energy AE300 Standmount Speakers. Quite happy with it but always felt that, while good, I could probably improve on the amp. Audio Affair has a very good deal on Arcam SA10s at the moment at just £439 as oppose to rrp of £699 so thought worth the punt. Had high hopes but, while finding the sound warmer, objectively I couldn't hear any massive improvement. Is it my ears? Am I just not appreciating it? The Marantz is livelier and brighter to me but not in a fatiguing way. The Arcam more relaxed, warmer and grown-up but perhaps a bit too relaxed?

Anyone got any views on this? It's such a good deal that I'd hate to return if I've not set up properly or something. Was I naively expecting too much of an improvement?
Tried RCA out through Bluesound and also via the amps Toslink but to me that sounded much poorer than analogue input as think Bluesound DAC is superior.

To be clear - the sound to my ear isn't bad. Just bit of a sideways move. Wondered what others think of the Arcam who might have had it for a bit / compared with the Marantz?

If I do return - is there anything out there below the £700 mark (before any deal) that is a markedly better amp? I'm happy to save up the pennies for a few months for that.
 
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Cambridge Audio CXA61. Nice but not cheap.

Its predecessor, the 60 sells for around 400 quid.

If it is anything close sounding to the 61 it's a fine amp and likely an upgrade to your Marantz.

Alternatively you could go direct to a XTZ A2-300 from your Node as long as it has volume control.

Very neat, very powerful.
 
If you want something which has more grip but keeps the get up and go, look at some second hand roksan kandy on eBay. This might be an upgrade route you find more satisfying.
 
Send the Arcam back. Survival of the fittest. Where 2 items are equally "fit" keep the cheaper option.
Therefore send it back for a £439 refund.

There are loads of amplifiers you could try. Especially if you go down the pre-owned front. Amplifiers tend to be reliable, long lasting items.

Host a bake off with the theme being amplifiers you can get for £700 or less. And see if anything beats your Marantz. I have a £300 pre-power (pre was bought used, power amp bought new in a sale) combination you might like.
 
Send the Arcam back. Survival of the fittest. Where 2 items are equally "fit" keep the cheaper option.
Therefore send it back for a £439 refund.

There are loads of amplifiers you could try. Especially if you go down the pre-owned front. Amplifiers tend to be reliable, long lasting items.

Host a bake off with the theme being amplifiers you can get for £700 or less. And see if anything beats your Marantz. I have a £300 pre-power (pre was bought used, power amp bought new in a sale) combination you might like.
Yes that's a very sensible suggestion. My main system is used market Cambridge Azure 851N acting as pre with 851W power amp - and the upgrade from my previous separates was huge.

Back to this system - When I plugged in the Arcam I did a side by side comparison. It WAS a little better. Darker background, more mature sound, warmer and relaxed. But not that much better. I'd probably get £150 for the Marantz so the outlay would be around £300. And my thought was 'is this £300 better?' (£500 if full price) and the answer is no unfortunately. I'm slightly against buying second hand these days without hearing first - simply because you can't return if you don't like (the saving grace of the Arcam via Audio Affair). So I think I'll be keeping my eye on open boxes/ factory returns of amps around £700 mark and hopefully pick them up for £500. That way if I don't like can send back
 
Keep the marantz, great and capable amp.i would look at changing to floorstanders myself. Even expensive bookshelf speakers have their limitations.marantz and monitor audio sing well together.
 
Keep the marantz, great and capable amp.i would look at changing to floorstanders myself. Even expensive bookshelf speakers have their limitations.marantz and monitor audio sing well together.
Alas I can't have floorstanders as I'm a printmaker so use a press and inks, corrosives and lots of sharp and heavy objects at around waist level. My main system upstairs has Monitor Audio Silver 10s and I must say they are great
 
If you want something which has more grip but keeps the get up and go, look at some second hand roksan kandy on eBay. This might be an upgrade route you find more satisfying.

Yes the Roksan's have been on my radar. Can probably only afford a 2nd hand Kandy 2 - you've not heard one have you? That's the ultimate problem with used is you can't hear before you buy / return if you don't like. But its definitely one I'd like to consider
 
Yes. Used to own one. Replaced with an Arcam A39. The roksan is a lot livelier and punchy than even an A39. So compared to the SA10 which replaced the A19 it should have more of what your want. Roksan has Bluetooth but would advise on separate DAC streamer. It is an amp I have used with silver 10’s with good results.
 
Hi - sounds good. I would be using with Bluesound Node 2i so that would provide the DAC (its a good one too). Definitely interesting route
 
Yes. Used to own one. Replaced with an Arcam A39. The roksan is a lot livelier and punchy than even an A39. So compared to the SA10 which replaced the A19 it should have more of what your want. Roksan has Bluetooth but would advise on separate DAC streamer. It is an amp I have used with silver 10’s with good results.
Hi - just noticed a good deal on Arcam A29 - new for £400. Have you heard it? Worth a punt or is it down a very similar rabbit hole to the SA10? Also when I googled it seemed to have some problems with right channel losing volume with a few people. Keeping my eye out for a Kandy but seemed a good price.
 
I recently swapped systems to do a direct comparison between my Sugden A21a amp, the current equivalent of which costs about £2,200 and my Marantz PM 6004 which I picked up second hand for £130 on EBay. There was really very little difference. I have now bought a new PM 6006 for £339 which I’m confident will serve me well with the system I use for TV and music DVDs. I think that decent speakers are the most important variable in audio set ups. Maybe I think that because I listen mostly in a small 12x10 room.
 
I am also using this system in a small room of virtually identical dimensions. You might well be right but to be sure I need to hear for myself. I think I'm going to order both the Arcam and the Rotel and listen to them against the Marantz. They both have a 30-day return so I'll either keep one of them or return both.
 
Having owned a SA10 amplifier now for 3 weeks I can add that the weak-point is the internal DAC, well weak in comparison to the Arcam CDS27 SACD player/streamer or REGA DAC I already had.

To get the benefit of the SA10 you need to pair it with good separate sources, the phono stage is good on it sounding the same as the one in my previous amplifier, the Arcam A18.

I have written elsewhere in more detail about the above if you look at my few posts here. I only use the SA10 digital inputs (the DAC) for TV and BluRay as the Arcam CDS27 SACD player is in a much higher league in audiophile land, as is the Rega DAC but I prefer the CDS27 for most music.

So you should perhaps judge an amp by it's amplifier quality and not the internal DAC, I wasn't expecting the internal DAC to be as good and I was right. Not so long ago in audiophile land it was always judged a bad idea to have the likes of a DAC inside an amp and now this modern trend. No amp/DAC combo is as good as a separate DAC so for me the digital inputs are simply an add-on for TV or BluRay.

As for that What hi-fi review saying the analogue inputs didn't sound as good as the digital inputs on the SA10, well frankly that is pure crap and I cannot hear their findings.

Only thing annoying me about the SA10 is the mechanical hum of the transformer, I still have to ring the dealer about this and I'll be looking to exchange it for another one. The previous Arcam A18 was dead silent and the way it should be. In the past I have swapped out transformers and replaced them because I don't want to hear a 50Hz hum even at low volumes along with the high frequency tinnitus I constantly have ringing in my head!:(
 
Having owned a SA10 amplifier now for 3 weeks I can add that the weak-point is the internal DAC, well weak in comparison to the Arcam CDS27 SACD player/streamer or REGA DAC I already had.

To get the benefit of the SA10 you need to pair it with good separate sources, the phono stage is good on it sounding the same as the one in my previous amplifier, the Arcam A18.

I have written elsewhere in more detail about the above if you look at my few posts here. I only use the SA10 digital inputs (the DAC) for TV and BluRay as the Arcam CDS27 SACD player is in a much higher league in audiophile land, as is the Rega DAC but I prefer the CDS27 for most music.

So you should perhaps judge an amp by it's amplifier quality and not the internal DAC, I wasn't expecting the internal DAC to be as good and I was right. Not so long ago in audiophile land it was always judged a bad idea to have the likes of a DAC inside an amp and now this modern trend. No amp/DAC combo is as good as a separate DAC so for me the digital inputs are simply an add-on for TV or BluRay.

As for that What hi-fi review saying the analogue inputs didn't sound as good as the digital inputs on the SA10, well frankly that is pure crap and I cannot hear their findings.

Only thing annoying me about the SA10 is the mechanical hum of the transformer, I still have to ring the dealer about this and I'll be looking to exchange it for another one. The previous Arcam A18 was dead silent and the way it should be. In the past I have swapped out transformers and replaced them because I don't want to hear a 50Hz hum even at low volumes along with the high frequency tinnitus I constantly have ringing in my head!:(

Hi and many thanks for this. Useful to know. I really liked the Arcam sound so although I returned the SA10 in the end purchased the New / Old Stock Arcam A29 for £399 and used with Chord Mojo. This is now being upgraded to a used Chord 2Qute which arrives this week. With the savings bought some used PMC Twenty 21 speakers and I must say I am loving my new setup.
 
Excellent price for an A29 that has Class G amplification, it probably will sound better than your SA10 and especially with your PMC speakers. You may be able to feed your Chord DAC with a power supply on the back of the A29 designed especialy for DACs that use wall AC adapters. :)

I've heard Chord DACs have a certain sound so hoping you like it and that these components work well together and give the sound you want.

There are great used bargains out there I know, I seen an Arcam CDS27 SACD player streamer go on Ebay for around £270 lately, I wouldn't part with mine as it has a ginormous soundstage, massive presence and has bass extension that approaches my turntable. I also preferred the green display too which your A29 has.

Maybe I should have bought an A29 for that price? Interesting and now you have got me wondering especially as my SA10 hums. The backlit remote is brilliant though and I like the timeout function which switches the amp off saving electricity.
 
Excellent price for an A29 that has Class G amplification, it probably will sound better than your SA10 and especially with your PMC speakers. You may be able to feed your Chord DAC with a power supply on the back of the A29 designed especialy for DACs that use wall AC adapters. :)

I've heard Chord DACs have a certain sound so hoping you like it and that these components work well together and give the sound you want.

There are great used bargains out there I know, I seen an Arcam CDS27 SACD player streamer go on Ebay for around £270 lately, I wouldn't part with mine as it has a ginormous soundstage, massive presence and has bass extension that approaches my turntable. I also preferred the green display too which your A29 has.

Maybe I should have bought an A29 for that price? Interesting and now you have got me wondering especially as my SA10 hums. The backlit remote is brilliant though and I like the timeout function which switches the amp off saving electricity.
Thanks - yes I'm really happy with it and love the Chord DAC sound of Mojo but because you can't (easily at least) keep that plugged in all the time I've gone for the 2Qute. I may save up for the RME ADDI-2 DAC and buy that in a year as also heard great things about that. But this set up has nailed it for me....for now!
 

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