PMC Active v Passive for home stereo ?

bookle

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I am really interested in getting hold of a pair of PMC DB1 or TB2's however what about a pair of DB1 or TB2 'active' monitors ?

Never really thought about active monitors before..:confused:

Question I have are....

Are they suitable for home use in stereo and home cinema ? (small room)
Would they sound better or equivalent versus their passive brothers ?
Assuming a positive answer to the above can just I ditch my power amps as well ?

Any thoughts most welcome....

Alan
 
Are they suitable for home use in stereo and home cinema ? (small room) YES

Would they sound better or equivalent versus their passive brothers ? PROBABLY, the speakers and amps are perfectly matched

Assuming a positive answer to the above can just I ditch my power amps as well ? YES

Those who use active speakers swear by them. :smashin:
 
I agree with Nobber.

While I haven't heard active PMC's, I bought active ATC's after demoing quite a few passive high end speakers.

I owned some Chord monoblocks which were fantastic and was reluctant to part with them despite ATC advising me that passive was the way to go. To cut a long story short, after having the amps taken out of the speakers initially, I ended up having the amps put back into the speakers and selling the Chords. The actives were more dynamic and there were no audible disadvantages plus I
didn't have to worry about speaker cable.

I wouldn't go back to passive now, and, when I can afford it will probably buy some ATC's or Genelec's for home cinema use.
 
many thanks for the replies

I guess my first concern was the quality of the amp in an active monitor as 1) you'd have to shoehorn it into the speaker cabinet and
2) would the speaker manufacturer spec a decent amp versus a very good separate power amp

Another obvious question I guess is why isn't everyone going 'active' if its so much better ????:confused:

Any further thoughts from anyone ?
 
The PMC activated range are very good indeed, especially the new Mk2 models that have just come out recently.

It is worth pointing out though that the models you are looking at are not truly active speakers but actually "activated" models which basically means they are the same as the standard passive models with a passive crossover onboard and a 200 Watt monoblock amplifier strapped to the back of each one.

In the "activated" versions of the passive models the full range signal for the speaker goes into the amplifier and then the amplified signal passes through a passive crossover network which filters out the right frequencies for each drive unit. Obviously there is some slight loss in energy and purity from the amplified signal when it passes through the passive crossover network. This is basically the way most amplifier and speaker combinations work, although in the case of the PMCs the amplifier is mounted to the back of the speaker itself.

Truly active speakers, such as the PMC AML2 have individual amplification for each drive unit and the signal is goes through an active crossover before entering the power amplification for each drive unit. This means that the amplifier for each drive unit is only having to amplify the signal for that particular drive unit which is much more efficient.

All that said the both kinds of active speakers from PMC are extremely good indeed. The AML2s which are the only compact fully active speaker from PMC are still out of the price range of most people at about £7000.00 a pair.

Out of interest, are you looking for a new pair of active PMCs or second hand? If it is new you are looking for then I might be able to help you out as I work for an Assured Advertiser on here based in Edinburgh who also happens to be a PMC dealer too.
 
many thanks for the replies

I guess my first concern was the quality of the amp in an active monitor as 1) you'd have to shoehorn it into the speaker cabinet and
2) would the speaker manufacturer spec a decent amp versus a very good separate power amp

Another obvious question I guess is why isn't everyone going 'active' if its so much better ????:confused:

Any further thoughts from anyone ?

Individual amp, speaker and cable manufacturers as well as dealers have a vested interest in selling more boxes ;) We're also brought up to think this is "normal" by the hifi press so all in all it's accepted as the norm.

Actives speakers initially look expensive as you're buying the amp too but overall can be cheaper in the long run. I would have saved a small fortune if I'd bought the actives instead of buying the Chords.

As part of the hifi hobby, some people also like to have separate components and like to upgrade/change these which is a disadvantage of actives. I wanted to bring my upgraditis to an end as spent a shed load over the years. Very happy with my stereo system now and unchanged now in 4 years. The only thing I'd consider changing is the preamp but that's it! :)
 
Individual amp, speaker and cable manufacturers as well as dealers have a vested interest in selling more boxes ;) We're also brought up to think this is "normal" by the hifi press so all in all it's accepted as the norm.

Actives speakers initially look expensive as you're buying the amp too but overall can be cheaper in the long run. I would have saved a small fortune if I'd bought the actives instead of buying the Chords.

As part of the hifi hobby, some people also like to have separate components and like to upgrade/change these which is a disadvantage of actives. I wanted to bring my upgraditis to an end as spent a shed load over the years. Very happy with my stereo system now and unchanged now in 4 years. The only thing I'd consider changing is the preamp but that's it! :)


That’s a cracking system you've got there. Like most ATC owners, I'm hoping to buy a pair of active ATC’s one day...... What would you upgrade to from the SCA2?
 
Hi Dazzler9000

I really rate Chord Electronics amps - heard their previous Reference preamp (CPA 4000) which I should have bought but went down a different route at the time :rolleyes: (now replaced by their CPA 5000). Was really transparent, the soundstage was vast and had battleship build quality too. Their customer service is also top notch. Probably the best preamp I've heard. (Even their integrated amps are good - similarly priced Chord was far better than a Krell I owned. In my experience, the Chord mono block power amps also made mincemeat of the big Bryston 14B SST which was very disappointing to put it mildly).

If I had the money I'd also like to hear the Ayre KX-R too and maybe the Esoteric C-03 pre amp but as I'll be looking to improve the AV side of things, it may never happen. Maybe there's a long lost uncle somewhere....

Don't get me wrong though the SCA2 is a very good transparent preamp and am very happy with it.

BTW, how do you like the SCM40's?
 
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It is worth pointing out though that the models you are looking at are not truly active speakers but actually "activated" models which basically means they are the same as the standard passive models with a passive crossover onboard and a 200 Watt monoblock amplifier strapped to the back of each one.

How would that single amp arrangement perform v a biamped passive speaker ?
I use my Arcams in a biamped configuration and the upgrade from biamping was large.

Out of interest, are you looking for a new pair of active PMCs or second hand?

I'm afraid I'm only in the game for used speakers due to lack of cash basically.
However, I'm still not 100% convinced I will go 'active' on the DB1/TB2's and could yet still go passive.

Crusty, what you recomend from a purely sound quality perpsective ?
I would be sticking with my Arcam A85/P85 biamped for passive or do I trade them in and go active ?
It would need to be a good upgrade to go the active route.

cheers, alan
 
Actives speakers initially look expensive as you're buying the amp too but overall can be cheaper in the long run. I would have saved a small fortune if I'd bought the actives instead of buying the Chords.

As part of the hifi hobby, some people also like to have separate components and like to upgrade/change these which is a disadvantage of actives. I wanted to bring my upgraditis to an end as spent a shed load over the years. Very happy with my stereo system now and unchanged now in 4 years. The only thing I'd consider changing is the preamp but that's it! :)

makes sense, so you'd clearly recomend the active route!
I would quite like to cure my upgraditis as well so wouldn't be stressed about losing flexibility if the result was worth it.

I could sell my Arcam A85/P85 + MA's and invest in the PMC actives but is the difference really a 'wow' or fairly minor v biamping a pair of PMC passives ? What do you think ?
 
How would that single amp arrangement perform v a biamped passive speaker?

The best thing for you to do would be to demo a pair against your own setup, however if you are only looking at buying used then there's not really going to be much opportunity to do that.

I do think that the single amp arrangement but with lots more power would outperform your biamping configuration, but then that's just my opinion and nothing more.

Crusty, what you recomend from a purely sound quality perspective?

Sticking with your existing amplification, the Kef 201/2s would be a fabulous upgrade and would show the GR10s a clean pair of heels in every area. I would also recommend the Art Expressions, of which I have a used pair for sale. These originally retailed for £4000.00 per pair and are now £1799.00 inc. matching stands.
 
Hi Dazzler9000


Don't get me wrong though the SCA2 is a very good transparent preamp and am very happy with it.

BTW, how do you like the SCM40's?


Have you considered the Pass labs xp20, it's meant to be stunning.......

I like the 40's, I think they're a great speaker, but as I say I'm always tempted to listen to some active 50's. I may go down the second hand route in a few years and maybe a Chord QBD76 :rotfl:
 
makes sense, so you'd clearly recomend the active route!
I would quite like to cure my upgraditis as well so wouldn't be stressed about losing flexibility if the result was worth it.

I could sell my Arcam A85/P85 + MA's and invest in the PMC actives but is the difference really a 'wow' or fairly minor v biamping a pair of PMC passives ? What do you think ?

Definately - I wish I'd heard actives a long time ago.

I haven't heard the active PMC's so best if you can hear them one against the other ideally at home but (speaking from an ATC perspective) the difference to me was not subtle: it was a huge difference to other speakers I'd heard and I'd expect active PMC's to be v.good too.

I'd expect a true active to be significantly better than bi-amping for all the reasons given for active advantages (e.g. amp matching to each speaker driver, no passive crossover, etc) but you'd have to listen to decide for yourself.

If you want to compare ATC's as well, I see there's a dealer in Leven. Don't know how far that's from you but might be worth a listen:

audio emotion - How to Find Us
 
Have you considered the Pass labs xp20, it's meant to be stunning.......

I like the 40's, I think they're a great speaker, but as I say I'm always tempted to listen to some active 50's. I may go down the second hand route in a few years and maybe a Chord QBD76 :rotfl:

I've heard of Pass Labs but not actually heard any of their products - the reviews do look good for xp20 though and I might look into that when the time comes. :thumbsup:

The 50's are great and I think you'd notice a big difference, not only because of the actives but with the SM 150 midrange dome driver which gives an incredibly detailed and lifelike presentation without colouration.
 
thanks again for all the feedback, much appreciated.

A few have made good suggestions about which actives could work well..
to be honest I only picked out the PMC DB1/TB2 beacuse I had my heart set on the passive models before discovering they had an active version.
So I really haven't done any homework at all on which active works best with my limited budget (only £500ish + proceeds from sales of existing kit - but could find more for an outstanding deal).

I typically buy 'blind' based on lengthy research on the forums and very good used prices :)eek: I know, I know - but it has worked very well so far :rolleyes:).
But its a tougher choice this time round.

I guess next step is trying to get a demo of some options....

Would still like to hear more input on the subject..

Not heard too much support for sticking with passive which is a wee bit of a surprise given most people have that setup today :confused:

cheers, alan
 
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Not heard too much support for sticking with passive which is a wee bit of a surprise given most people have that setup today :confused:

cheers, alan

Same here, before I bought my current setup this year I had researched in to Active speakers. I felt at the time mid to high end market for audio now has some good active speakers, but entry level stuff is not at the same calibre as entry level passive + amps. (yes I've gone entry level)

My next purchase will be active speakers that can have the audio wirelessly transmitted to them:smashin: I'm sure it will be with us in the next 5-6 years. So then all we would have to do is place the speakers in the room and hook it up to the home network:D
I wonder what the die hard Audiophiles feel about that.. the times a comin..
 
My next purchase will be active speakers that can have the audio wirelessly transmitted to them:smashin: I'm sure it will be with us in the next 5-6 years. So then all we would have to do is place the speakers in the room and hook it up to the home network:D
I wonder what the die hard Audiophiles feel about that.. the times a comin..


I think Genelec are already doing it with their 4030....
 
I think Genelec are already doing it with their 4030....

Nooooo 4 years to sooon:rotfl: I'm going to have to think of a reason to get them now. Do they sound good?
 
Nooooo 4 years to sooon:rotfl: I'm going to have to think of a reason to get them now. Do they sound good?


I've no idea, I just stumbled across a video where they were discussing them. I think it's a technology they're still working on, so I'm not sure whether they are available yet.

Panic over!!!!
 
I would love to hear a pair of £2000 active speakers Genelec HT208B 2-Way Active Speaker compared to £2000 passive & amp.

I wonder what the difference would be in terms of listener enjoyment. Would the passive + amp allow for longer more "easy on the ear" listening?

Also what source would one use for the Genelec's?
 
from a drawing board prospective, a true active design has the potential for much lower distortion (1-2%) at higher volume levels as well as vastly higher damping factors and other smaller advantages over a passive design.

however- this adds up to less than 10% of the overall performance of a speaker. If the designer hasnt got the other 90% right, then theres no point.

To put it into context- the shape of the front baffle has more effect than weather its active or not.

The point is, if a speaker is active - great. it doesnt mean its necessarily any good though.

the format of the filter (passive of active) will have little or no bearing on the softness or hardness of a performance- this will be down to the filters chosen and other factors that apply to active and passive alike. you could design a active speaker to sound soft, the same as a passive.

Pro audio monitoring gear isnt engineered to be anything but tecnically acurate, so the FR will be flat, which is generaly brighter than domestic speakers are voiced.- Your can read this how you like though-
pro active speakers are 'hard' or 'fatiguing' or you could say 'clear' and 'acurate'.

I will say though that the older you are, the more likely it is that you prefer a rolled off treble. So if reading a review of a speaker and the reviewer is singing high praises and you are considering purchasing the item blind. have a look at the reviewers age. If your 18 and the reviewer is 60, see if you can get a impression from someone closer to your age before you buy blind.
 
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from a drawing board prospective, a true active design has the potential for much lower distortion (1-2%) at higher volume levels as well as vastly higher damping factors and other smaller advantages over a passive design.

however- this adds up to less than 10% of the overall performance of a speaker. If the designer hasnt got the other 90% right, then theres no point.

To put it into context- the shape of the front baffle has more effect than weather its active or not.

The point is, if a speaker is active - great. it doesnt mean its necessarily any good though.

the format of the filter (passive of active) will have little or no bearing on the softness or hardness of a performance- this will be down to the filters chosen and other factors that apply to active and passive alike. you could design a active speaker to sound soft, the same as a passive.

Pro audio monitoring gear isnt engineered to be anything but tecnically acurate, so the FR will be flat, which is generaly brighter than domestic speakers are voiced.- Your can read this how you like though-
pro active speakers are 'hard' or 'fatiguing' or you could say 'clear' and 'acurate'.

I will say though that the older you are, the more likely it is that you prefer a rolled off treble. So if reading a review of a speaker and the reviewer is singing high praises and you are considering purchasing the item blind. have a look at the reviewers age. If your 18 and the reviewer is 60, see if you can get a impression from someone closer to your age before you buy blind.

I'd definately agree with saying the quality of the design of the speaker (amps, drivers, construction and materials) is a factor and that not all actives are necessarily created equal.

I would disagree though that the accuracy and transparency equates to hard or fatiguing. I could listen to my speakers all day and night (if I had the time). BTW I'm about half way between the 2 in age :)

Buying blind is certainly a risky business and I've found to my cost in the past that placing undue weight to Hifi mag reviews isn't always reliable. While can be useful as a starting point, best to trust one's own ears.
 
clearly a hot topic !

taking all the other (but very important) speaker design factors to one side for a moment.....

If you have the same maker and design, for example the PMC DB1, and also assuming passive amplification being at the moderate level of my Arcam A85/P85 biamped.

Do you guys think the active DB1 would be better than the passive DB1 ???

or alternatively.....roh008 put it very well....

I would love to hear a pair of £2000 active speakers Genelec HT208B 2-Way Active Speaker compared to £2000 passive & amp.

I wonder what the difference would be in terms of listener enjoyment. Would the passive + amp allow for longer more "easy on the ear" listening?

I agree about the buying blind being risky but I am prepared to go with the well respected opinions here on avforums and buying used allows me to re-sell with minimal losses.
I do agree about magazines being an unreliable source of audio wisdom.
 

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