Question Possible upgrade from dual XXLS400 subs

WozzaB

Active Member
First of all, I'm pretty sure I'm only looking at subs as I've currently got too much spare time on my hands with the lockdown!

Currently running dual BK XXLS400's from a Denon 3500H.

I'm very happy with the subs, but just keep thinking I might be missing some real low end stuff with movies! I'd like to keep a similar footprint to an XXLS400 which is 40cm width and 40cm deep, height not so much of an issue.

I've only had a look at SVS so far, SB2000 or SB3000(open box price etc) as they are similar in size to the BK. I would think ported would give even more low end oomph, but size might be restrictive?

Any other subs to look at, mainly for movies that would keep the footprint under 40cm x 40cm and around £1000 each or less?

Cheers!
 

Gasp3621

Well-known Member
SVS PC2000 Pro would be at the limits. All the box versions are deeper and ruled out.
Dimensions (H x Diameter)872mm x 422mm




Actually AVO has refurb items with full warranty (often in mint condition) from SVS for 679£, the non Pro PC2000! Would make lot more sense than the new at 999£!
 

WozzaB

Active Member
Thanks as usual @Gasp3621!
Just had a proper measure up and I can actually have a deeper cabinet, maybe up to 55cm, its the 40cm width I need to keep under.
 

fatboy frank

Well-known Member
Might want to consider PSA S15xx serious subs for the money and relatively small size for the size of the drivers. They have just released some new models, so maybe able to pick up something used.

Give Ricky a call or look here: Introduction to Power Sound Audio EU

If you want to push the boat out there is a S1811 for sale in the classifieds: For Sale - PSA S1811 subwoofer - Reduced 27/3 with another coming up for sale in the near future :thumbsup: these are fantastic subs i have a pair myself!
 
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WozzaB

Active Member
Might want to consider PSA S15xx serious subs for the money and relatively small size for the size of the drivers. They have just released some new models, so maybe able to pick up something used.

Give Ricky a call or look here: Introduction to Power Sound Audio EU

If you want to push the boat out there is a S1811 for sale in the classifieds: For Sale - PSA S1811 subwoofer - Reduced 27/3 with another coming up for sale in the near future :thumbsup: these are fantastic subs i have a pair myself!
Cheers for the info, the idea of a pair of 15" or even 18" subs is very interesting😈
 

Ultrasonic

Well-known Member
Realistically I think you want to be prepared to have something bigger to get a meaningful improvement here. Unless perhaps you want to spend a lot on some JL Audio subs.

A 15" PSA sub isn't that much bigger than an XXLS400. There are some sise by side photos here:

 

Conrad.

Well-known Member
FYI, the DSP in the earlier PSAs (which are being talked about here) means that the 15s go lower than the 18s, despite the bigger size. The 18s are still monsters though and you can't go far wrong with them.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Cheers for the info, the idea of a pair of 15" or even 18" subs is very interesting😈
I used to own two XXLS400 subs, and moved to a single SVS SB13Ultra (which alone was an upgrade) And then bought another. I now have two PSA S1811 subs (one of which is for sale as posted by fatboy frank) and those were another step up in terms of performance over the SB13Ultras.

The PSA 15's do dig a little deeper but whether or not that output around where the 18's start to roll off is useable would be hugely dependant on how many subs you have. Personally I think the 18's are worth it purely for the extra headroom they offer, but I think the 15's would be better if space is limited (which is what I'm finding and my reason for selling) :)
 
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Conrad.

Well-known Member
I used to own two XXLS400 subs, and moved to a single SVS SB13Ultra (which alone was an upgrade) And then bought another. I now have two PSA S1811 subs (one of which is for sale as posted by fatboy frank) and those were another step up in terms of performance over the SB13Ultras.

The PSA 15's do dig a little deeper but whether or not that output around where the 18's start to roll is useable would be hugely dependant on how many subs you have. Personally I think the 18's are worth it purely for the extra headroom they offer, but I think the 15's would be better if space is limited (which is what I'm finding and my reason for selling) :)
Spot on about the headroom, that's a good point. It'll also depend on the room size and placement as to what response you get.
 

WozzaB

Active Member
Thanks for all the advice guys!

The BK's go loud enough for my room, just want something that can dig a bit deeper, although I'm not really sure what I'm missing with regard to lower hz as I've only heard the BK's! I'm just thinking there's some low rumble that I don't hear as the BK's have hit their low end limit by then.
I really need to hear something that has that lower end output first I think, not really possible under the current circumstances we are all in!
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Thanks for all the advice guys!

The BK's go loud enough for my room, just want something that can dig a bit deeper, although I'm not really sure what I'm missing with regard to lower hz as I've only heard the BK's! I'm just thinking there's some low rumble that I don't hear as the BK's have hit their low end limit by then.
I really need to hear something that has that lower end output first I think, not really possible under the current circumstances we are all in!
When or indeed if, all this blows over, you'd be welcome to pop over for a demo of the S1811 subs, seeing as you're quite local (I'm in Essex).. might even still have two subs the way things are going :laugh: I could also demo the BOSS system (which is also the reason I no-longer chase the depth of subwoofers) As that is perfectly capable of TR at 3hz and up, and right up to 20hz+ it's far more capable than both of my subwoofers.. I reckon I'd need another 10 subs to come close ;)
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
You won't hear much lower than the XXLS400's will go, you will feel it, that being the case maybe think of a transducer it could be the answer and a lot cheaper.
 

WozzaB

Active Member
When or indeed if, all this blows over, you'd be welcome to pop over for a demo of the S1811 subs, seeing as you're quite local (I'm in Essex).. might even still have two subs the way things are going :laugh: I could also demo the BOSS system (which is also the reason I no-longer chase the depth of subwoofers) As that is perfectly capable of TR at 3hz and up, and right up to 20hz+ it's far more capable than both of my subwoofers.. I reckon I'd need another 10 subs to come close ;)
I'll keep that in mind, cheers! That's probably what I need, to hear/feel what I think I'm missing!
 

WozzaB

Active Member
You won't hear much lower than the XXLS400's will go, you will feel it, that being the case maybe think of a transducer it could be the answer and a lot cheaper.
Interesting option, would keep the neighbours happier as well.
 

Gasp3621

Well-known Member
@sanjualf has owned XXLS400, SB2000 and XTZ 12.17 Edge plus also PSA S1500. Maybe he can give you some idea what to expect. :)

For comparison sake raw max output (outside):

PC2000 (&PB2000) is stronger than PSA S1510 at 16-25hz (+4db), but will drop off fast after that while PSA should extend deeper. 30-50hz PSA has about 3db edge, 60-100hz PSA ahead by 8db. 16-100hz average SVS = 108,9db - PSA = 113,2db.
 
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Topmetom 2

Well-known Member
You cant beat second hand price for quality on psa. Mindboggling
i had a dual monoliths before the kk dxd, now dual psa 15.

edit..I wish id known how to set them all up properly like i have a idea now! Just used to rely on auto set ups!
 
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sanjualf

Active Member
Dual BK 400 is a fantastic setup, the only thing you will be missing will be strong output below 25hz. Given your size restriction for width, I would say XTZ12.17 would fit perfectly.It is a tiny bit taller than the 400. It will give you much more impact below 30hz and as fast as the 400. That will be your cheapest upgrade path ( Most value for money without compromising quality)and you will certainly notice an improvement. The only other options i would say if you are looking for strong output below 25hz without losing much of upper bass impact not he sizes you mentioned are SVS SB3000 ( smallest of the bunch) and PSA 1500 series both are quality subs and if you find a decent second hand examples of 1500 PSA ( they are very wellmade) then ideal as well.
 
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WozzaB

Active Member
Dual BK 400 is a fantastic setup, the only thing you will bemusing will be strong output below 25hz. Given your size restriction for width, I would say XTZ12.17 would fit perfectly.It is a tiny bit taller than the 400. It will give you much more impact below 30hz and as fast as the 400. That will be your cheapest upgrade path ( Most value for money without compromising quality)and you will certainly notice an improvement. The only other options i would say if you are looking for strong output below 25hz without losing much of upper bass impacts not he sizes you mentioned are SVS SB3000 ( smallest of the bunch) and PSA 1500 series both are quality subs and if you find a decent second hand examples of 1500 PSA ( they are all made) then ideal as well.
Thanks for the reply, the XTZ12.17 Edge seems a good choice, especially at €590! I'll have a look at the SVS and PSA again as well though.

Cheers!
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
What sort of volumes do you listen at? Only quite often the low end is only perceivable the louder you listen.. You might be better off keeping what you have and adding a Tactile Transducer..
 

WozzaB

Active Member
What sort of volumes do you listen at? Only quite often the low end is only perceivable the louder you listen.. You might be better off keeping what you have and adding a Tactile Transducer..
I'm still using the 0-98 setting😅 usually 65-70 when watching movies, not sure what that is in the DB scale?
I'm googling transducers now, cheers.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
I'm still using the 0-98 setting😅 usually 65-70 when watching movies, not sure what that is in the DB scale?
I'm googling transducers now, cheers.
I think in that case 80 would be the equivalent to 0 (you can change this in settings to be sure) which is quite loud (-15 to -10) so I think a sub would give you that low end effect, but transducers would do also and probably be considerably cheaper..
 

WozzaB

Active Member
I think in that case 80 would be the equivalent to 0 (you can change this in settings to be sure) which is quite loud (-15 to -10) so I think a sub would give you that low end effect, but transducers would do also and probably be considerably cheaper..
Cheers for the info.
I have it in my head that I want the low stuff to come from a sub as that's the "proper" way! But I didn't even know what a transducer was until a few weeks ago, so what do I know😆
 

Stelios93

Standard Member
First of all, I'm pretty sure I'm only looking at subs as I've currently got too much spare time on my hands with the lockdown!

Currently running dual BK XXLS400's from a Denon 3500H.

I'm very happy with the subs, but just keep thinking I might be missing some real low end stuff with movies! I'd like to keep a similar footprint to an XXLS400 which is 40cm width and 40cm deep, height not so much of an issue.

I've only had a look at SVS so far, SB2000 or SB3000(open box price etc) as they are similar in size to the BK. I would think ported would give even more low end oomph, but size might be restrictive?

Any other subs to look at, mainly for movies that would keep the footprint under 40cm x 40cm and around £1000 each or less?

Cheers!
Hello,

Are you interested for psa 15v?
Is not small or big.
Remaining warranty 4 years from ricky.
It dig deep and sound very good and loud.

If you are interest let me know.

Thanks
 

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