POWER SOUND AUDIO Subwoofers - in Memory of mojogoes

I don’t browse that sub-forum, it carries too much risk of unexpected expense!
 
@kenshingintoki

If you want <10hz then PSA's should be on your hitlist. ;)

Haha thank you mate. Currently trying to wrestle my thoughts between PSA and Arendal subs. What are the PSA model I should be looking at for comparable or better performance to the Arendal 2V ?
 
Haha thank you mate. Currently trying to wrestle my thoughts between PSA and Arendal subs. What are the PSA model I should be looking at for comparable or better performance to the Arendal 2V ?

I'd imagine you'd want to be looking at the new TV models but even the older sealed models have output below 10hz if that's what you're after. Bear in mind, as @mb3195 mentioned, content that goes that low isn't as common as it used to be given the filtering that goes on in sound mixes these days.

I wouldn't chase <10hz peformance at the cost of >20hz performance though. The PSA's are adept right throughout the frequency range so no worries there. I had the Arendal Sub3 prior to an S1500 and then dual S1811's and the PSA's have all the punch and dynamics of the Arendal but do go lower. The Arendal was better in terms of build quality, a lot heavier and rock solid thanks to the dual opposed drivers.

To be fair, if the Sub3 had gone lower I'd have kept it so you shouldn't discount their new models. Although, I'd be looking at the 2S model personally rather than the 2V as I prefer sealed subs.

At the end of the day you're not really going to go wrong with any of them once they're set up properly.
 
I'd imagine you'd want to be looking at the new TV models but even the older sealed models have output below 10hz if that's what you're after. Bear in mind, as @mb3195 mentioned, content that goes that low isn't as common as it used to be given the filtering that goes on in sound mixes these days.

I wouldn't chase <10hz peformance at the cost of >20hz performance though. The PSA's are adept right throughout the frequency range so no worries there. I had the Arendal Sub3 prior to an S1500 and then dual S1811's and the PSA's have all the punch and dynamics of the Arendal but do go lower. The Arendal was better in terms of build quality, a lot heavier and rock solid thanks to the dual opposed drivers.

To be fair, if the Sub3 had gone lower I'd have kept it so you shouldn't discount their new models. Although, I'd be looking at the 2S model personally rather than the 2V as I prefer sealed subs.

At the end of the day you're not really going to go wrong with any of them once they're set up properly.

Wow thank you for that comprehensive reply. I was deliberating getting the Arendal 2V and a smaller sub for infeasonics later on.. but from what I know we shouldn’t mix subs?

what would be the pros of the Arendal 2V over the psa?
I wish spare changes review went into a bit more detail. It just kinda of said it’s good at everything except below 10hz and he’d take it over the pb16. Which he’d said more.
 
Given that an S15xx will likely keep up with or outperform a 2V, an S30xx should be a comfortable step up.
 
Wow thank you for that comprehensive reply. I was deliberating getting the Arendal 2V and a smaller sub for infeasonics later on.. but from what I know we shouldn’t mix subs?

what would be the pros of the Arendal 2V over the psa?
I wish spare changes review went into a bit more detail. It just kinda of said it’s good at everything except below 10hz and he’d take it over the pb16. Which he’d said more.

You could go for a sub and a TR device for the super low stuff (buttkickers, BOSS, etc) but mixing subs with very different capabilities and tunings is about the hardest combination to choose.
 
Given that an S15xx will likely keep up with or outperform a 2V, an S30xx should be a comfortable step up.

how do you know mate?

I’m not saying it won’t, but surely this is guesswork?
 
how do you know mate?

surely this is guesswork?

Based on specs, sorry, should have said.

Bigger drivers, more powerful amp, bigger cab, lower tune. Plus a vented sub will drop off below port tune whereas a sealed sub can benefit a lot from room gain. I don't reckon I'd get 5Hz at reference with a 2V, unless you think I would?

If the S1500 was a step up from the 3 that Saul had, doesn't it hold that the 30xx would be a step up from the 2V? Or maybe I'm getting the Arendel models confused?

Edit: just checked, the 3012 isn't a bigger cab than the 2V.
 
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Based on specs, sorry, should have said.

Bigger drivers, more powerful amp, bigger cab, lower tune. Plus a vented sub will drop off below port tune whereas a sealed sub can benefit a lot from room gain. I don't reckon I'd get 5Hz at reference with a 2V, unless you think I would?

If the S1500 was a step up from the 3 that Saul had, doesn't it hold that the 30xx would be a step up from the 2V? Or maybe I'm getting the Arendel models confused?

Edit: just checked, the 3012 isn't a bigger cab than the 2V.

Like I said mate, I’m not saying it wouldn’t, but until people have heard them side my side I think it’s speculation on what performs best.

Personally I don’t believe it’s all about SPL, especially in the single digit range, hardly any content is played at these levels, they just look good on a REW graph. 30-80hz is 100% more important.
 
Like I said mate, I’m not saying it wouldn’t, but until people have heard them side my side I think it’s speculation on what performs best.

Personally I don’t believe it’s all about SPL, especially in the single digit range, hardly any content is played at these levels, they just look good on a REW graph. 30-80hz is 100% more important.

Fair. I know where my money would go though.

I don't know, if <10Hz wasn't important then why would people use TR devices and build BOSSes? Why would BEQ be quite so popular? I watch lone survivor and my room shakes at 7Hz with the rescue choppers flying in. Sure, it's not every movie, not even most - in actual fact very few - but when it's there I want to feel it.

And just because I value <10Hz doesn't mean I don't care about the rest of the range. I would hope you'd know that from my time here.

I want it all. Well integrated, low distortion with reference SPL across the range.
 
And just because I value <10Hz doesn't mean I don't care about the rest of the range. I would hope you'd know that from my time here.

that never crossed my mind with you mate. 👍🏻

Personally I’m gonna be reluctant to go too low anyway, I’d probably introduce a filter on the minidsp as I’ve got a feeling my wooden structure with cement board cladding (whilst listening at +2-4db above reference) will be too much and start rattling about, I know it’s on the limit on the low frequency range already.
 
If you're gonna put all that equipment in just some "shed" then yeah, I'd be worried about it too :D
 
You could go for a sub and a TR device for the super low stuff (buttkickers, BOSS, etc) but mixing subs with very different capabilities and tunings is about the hardest combination to choose.


Thank you.

After reading about, it seems like PSA might be where I go to. How does a PSA compared to the JTR dual 18'' out of interest?
Do you know when/if stock is going to get filled in the UK for PSA subs?
I really want to feel the vibrations. I put the subwoofer right next to my sofa in a 3.5x3.5m room (for now).

My BK monolith gives me a lot of rumble on the sofa... a lot.. but doesn't give me much vibration in the air so I look forward to hearing the infrasonics.

Its between Arendal and PSA but now I am honestly leaning towards PSA as it seems like Arendal are better with the fancy stuff of build quality, screen but the PSA just simply gives you more in terms of range and experience (or am i wrong?).
 
People often use the car analogy with subs. Brand XXX is like the BMW where brand YYY is the Ford. I try to stay out of those as I don't have a lot of experience with a lot of brands.

I can say as a PSA owner though, they're like the Subaru of the sub world. They're all about raw, brute power. No looks, no fancy apps or features. You hook them up, EQ them (using a separate device, of course, nothing as fancy as onboard PEQ), and they'll try and tear the paint off your walls if you ask them to. They're awesome.

Whenever I talk to people about placement and integration I make a real effort not to push any brands, despite being a huge PSA fan. I'll try and convince them away from brands that sound like poor value (of which I think there are many), but this is the PSA thread, so I feel ok doing it here.

If you're on a concrete floor then vented will give you more in-room TR. Same is true if your room is particularly large, which it doesn't sound as though yours is. If you're on a suspended floor, like I am, or can do VNF then sealed should work well. Sealed will roll off below tune but less steeply than ported and can benefit a lot more from room gain. My subs aren't native down to 5Hz but I can hit 125dB there (Don't expect that from one sub, I have a lot of subs and a small room). A ported sub that rolls off at 15Hz just can't do that, it's physics.

People talk about big subs being slow and small subs being tighter and faster. I know someone that went from an S3000 to a 10" sub and says the 10" sounds better. I believe (but this is speculation) that that's because the 10" was dialed in by a pro and no longer has the common ~40Hz bump most untuned subs have. My six 15" drivers play clear and distinct bass notes when that's what they're fed because I spent time setting them up.

If you're going the PSA route, budget for a minidsp and a mic, and some time to get them tuned, especially if going multiple. It's well, well worth it in my opinion.
 
People often use the car analogy with subs. Brand XXX is like the BMW where brand YYY is the Ford. I try to stay out of those as I don't have a lot of experience with a lot of brands.

I can say as a PSA owner though, they're like the Subaru of the sub world. They're all about raw, brute power. No looks, no fancy apps or features. You hook them up, EQ them (using a separate device, of course, nothing as fancy as onboard PEQ), and they'll try and tear the paint off your walls if you ask them to. They're awesome.

Whenever I talk to people about placement and integration I make a real effort not to push any brands, despite being a huge PSA fan. I'll try and convince them away from brands that sound like poor value (of which I think there are many), but this is the PSA thread, so I feel ok doing it here.

If you're on a concrete floor then vented will give you more in-room TR. Same is true if your room is particularly large, which it doesn't sound as though yours is. If you're on a suspended floor, like I am, or can do VNF then sealed should work well. Sealed will roll off below tune but less steeply than ported and can benefit a lot more from room gain. My subs aren't native down to 5Hz but I can hit 125dB there (Don't expect that from one sub, I have a lot of subs and a small room). A ported sub that rolls off at 15Hz just can't do that, it's physics.

People talk about big subs being slow and small subs being tighter and faster. I know someone that went from an S3000 to a 10" sub and says the 10" sounds better. I believe (but this is speculation) that that's because the 10" was dialed in by a pro and no longer has the common ~40Hz bump most untuned subs have. My six 15" drivers play clear and distinct bass notes when that's what they're fed because I spent time setting them up.

If you're going the PSA route, budget for a minidsp and a mic, and some time to get them tuned, especially if going multiple. It's well, well worth it in my opinion.


Thank you! Of PSA's models, which would be the best and say comparable to a JRT RS1 or dare I say RS2?

I want that tacile thick bass with room shaking ability which can still be nimble enough for music.

I'm currently running a BK monolith Plus for reference.. if that helps..
 
Wow thank you for that comprehensive reply. I was deliberating getting the Arendal 2V and a smaller sub for infeasonics later on.. but from what I know we shouldn’t mix subs?

Ideally you wouldn't mix subs, it can be done but it's harder to get them integrated properly and performing to their best.

what would be the pros of the Arendal 2V over the psa?

For performance I couldn't say as I've not heard a 2V. Going by my Sub3 then you're going to get better build quality in terms of finish and aesthetics. The PSA's are a bit more 'industrial' in that respect.
 
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I haven't heard any of the JTR subs so I don't know, sorry. For reference, I haven't heard any Arendal subs either. In a room like Mark's I'm pretty sure that they'll sound insanely good. As someone said in another thread, the subs you're talking about here are pretty much as good as it gets. It's really preference at this level.

I have 3000s and 1500s, and I had a 3600. If you want super low stuff then the 3600 isn't for you. The 3612 though will roll off more like the 15 inch versions, something about the DSP in the 00 series amp/driver combo.

I would think that a 3612 would give an RS2 a run for its money. The JTR has more power, but I don't know whether you'd get to the levels where you're running a 3612 out of steam. Each one of my 3000s hits reference <10Hz, although distortion is starting to creep up. Two have no issues.

I'm not sure I'd spring for the iPal, I'd stick with the neo drivers in the 12 range. For "thicker" bass, which I believe to be associated with a certain level of distortion (in a good way, although there's not really any clear consensus on this) then the older eminence drivers would probably work well, if you can find them used.

I haven't heard a monolith either. I know they're great value, but again, physics. There's only so much a 12" ported sub can do in room. I don't think putting them up against a 15", 18" or even dual 18" is really fair. They're different target audiences.
 
Ideally you wouldn't mix subs, it can be done but it's harder to get them integrated properly and performing to their best.



For performance I couldn't say as I've not heard a 2V. Going by my Sub3 then you're going to get better build quality in terms of finish and aesthetics. The PSA's are a bit more 'industrial' in that sense.


thanks. I think you've swayed me towards PSA so will look into pricing now.

The industrial look is actually a postive for me as I commonly shove my subwoofer into a corner of the room next to a radiator or whatever is probably the least convienant to the finish. Having something industrial which can stand the test of time and not scratch during movement or transit is fairly important.

I know I get palpitations whenever I have to pick up one of my satin black arendals.


Now I need to short list which models I should be looking at... I want the ULF.... ;)
 
I was surprised how small the S1500 is as well, compared to the 3000 at least. It packs a hell of a punch for such a small box.

You should come over for a demo. I'll play the into to Blade Runner 2049.
 
I was surprised how small the S1500 is as well, compared to the 3000 at least. It packs a hell of a punch for such a small box.

You should come over for a demo. I'll play the into to Blade Runner 2049.


Where are you based mate? I'd love to hear one of these subwoofers. the best subwoofer I've experienced in my life is the bk monolith plus so I'm eager to see the next dimension of bass lol.
 
I really want to feel the vibrations. I put the subwoofer right next to my sofa in a 3.5x3.5m room (for now).

My BK monolith gives me a lot of rumble on the sofa... a lot.. but doesn't give me much vibration in the air so I look forward to hearing the infrasonics.

Just picking up on this a moment. Infrasonics isn't necessarily responsible for those vibrations. 30hz-50hz can easily feel like someone has just booted you in the back of the sofa.

Even higher up the range can also give you a kick/thud that can be felt. Gunshots are a prime example.
 
Where are you based mate? I'd love to hear one of these subwoofers. the best subwoofer I've experienced in my life is the bk monolith plus so I'm eager to see the next dimension of bass lol.

Biggleswade, Beds.

I'm not dissing the monolith at all, it's a fantastic sub for the money. I'm seriously tempted on one for the living room. I think you'll hear a difference though.

Just picking up on this a moment. Infrasonics isn't necessarily responsible for those vibrations. 30hz-50hz can easily feel like someone has just booted you in the back of the sofa.

Even higher up the range can also give you a kick/thud that can be felt. Gunshots are a prime example.

This is a great point, and this is where the integration is important. Gunshots are a great example of where clear, tight bass is important. Transients that you can really feel in the air in the room. Ported do this brilliantly (better than sealed when they're far-field). A VNF sealed does a great job. Jase is right, these sounds are usually much higher in the range.

So back to @mb3195's point, it's not just about SPL and it's not just about <10Hz. You do need it all. SPL does help with the transients though, you need volume to feel them. It's what people often refer to as "chest slam". Again, no solid consensus, but 30-80Hz sounds about right. At over an octave though that's a pretty wide range.
 

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