Question Processor vs AVR being used as a pre amp

Yep, all personal preference but for me, I wouldn't pay big money for pro if it was limited to using a cheap uncalibrated mic for EQ. Imo ARC and Diarc are superior to Audyssey.

11 channels is plenty for most users too, unless you have a large room and more than one row of seats I guess. :)
 
Would be interesting to test side by side and see / hear if someone would lend you both? The Marantz is now nearly twice the price (£3999) of what the Denon will be (£2299). I also bet the Denon’s price will come down quicker as it’s sold in larger quantities at more places so there’s competition to sell, also as and when you want to sell in say 18-24 months I suspect it will be a more in demand product with broader appeal so may be easier to shift on. I know the Marantz is a fantastic and well regarded bit of kit, just saying it would be interesting as things move on quickly, is the difference huge, small or inaudible? £1700-2000+ is a lot of films, beer and pizza and the new Denon’s with their processor mode may start to reduce a gap that may not have been that big in the first place. It certainly has most of the features that the Marantz has bar XLR, which arguably is not an audible advantage anyway.
It really would be a very interesting test. Not sure if anyone would ‘lend’ one. Still thinking about this.
 
Yep, all personal preference but for me, I wouldn't pay big money for pro if it was limited to using a cheap uncalibrated mic for EQ. Imo ARC and Diarc are superior to Audyssey.

11 channels is plenty for most users too, unless you have a large room and more than one row of seats I guess. :)
Hey Saul, so I’ve heard an 850 with MA platinums in an 7.1.4 config. I wasn’t too impressed with it. My current setup imo wiped the floor with it. Anthem I haven’t heard but they are so old now... I need to update my room thread, maybe start it again but I’ve got some treatment in now, also bearing in mind it’s not a dedicated room and the family need to operate something that just works, the 8805 ticks the box! It’s a itch that needs starching, wither it backs a massive difference than my 4500 is yet to be seen. I think XT32 works wells in my room. It’s a very square shape...
 
It really would be a very interesting test. Not sure if anyone would ‘lend’ one. Still thinking about this.
If you’re going to buy one of them I’m sure you’d find people willing, AVOnline advertise it but sure others will also do it. At the end of the day you’ve also got the 14 day distance selling thing, just buy them both and keep the one you prefer, just like women do with their dresses!!! 😃🤔👍😷
 
Hey Saul, so I’ve heard an 850 with MA platinums in an 7.1.4 config. I wasn’t too impressed with it. My current setup imo wiped the floor with it. Anthem I haven’t heard but they are so old now... I need to update my room thread, maybe start it again but I’ve got some treatment in now, also bearing in mind it’s not a dedicated room and the family need to operate something that just works, the 8805 ticks the box! It’s a itch that needs starching, wither it backs a massive difference than my 4500 is yet to be seen. I think XT32 works wells in my room. It’s a very square shape...

Square rooms are not the best for cinema. 4k is a lot of money, I'd hold out if I were you and see what price the Monoprice HTP-1 are when they are available here.

What are the extra features on the 8805 that you are after?
 
Square rooms are not the best for cinema. 4k is a lot of money, I'd hold out if I were you and see what price the Monoprice HTP-1 are when they are available here.

What are the extra features on the 8805 that you are after?
Features? None over my 4500. More about sonic improvements.... what’s the Monoprice HTP-1?

Squareish.... 😁
 
Monoprice HTP-1


This could be my next processor.
 


This could be my next processor.
Interesting
 
Would be interesting to test side by side and see / hear if someone would lend you both? The Marantz is now nearly twice the price (£3999) of what the Denon will be (£2299). I also bet the Denon’s price will come down quicker as it’s sold in larger quantities at more places so there’s competition to sell, also as and when you want to sell in say 18-24 months I suspect it will be a more in demand product with broader appeal so may be easier to shift on. I know the Marantz is a fantastic and well regarded bit of kit, just saying it would be interesting as things move on quickly, is the difference huge, small or inaudible? £1700-2000+ is a lot of films, beer and pizza and the new Denon’s with their processor mode may start to reduce a gap that may not have been that big in the first place. It certainly has most of the features that the Marantz has bar XLR, which arguably is not an audible advantage anyway.

The Marantz also has HDAM which likely could be cause of the negative results. Considering the Denons actually do better than the Marantz AV pres (and they have a 14khz trail off) that's another reason, the Denons have a flat frequency response.
 
The Marantz also has HDAM which likely could be cause of the negative results. Considering the Denons actually do better than the Marantz AV pres (and they have a 14khz trail off) that's another reason, the Denons have a flat frequency response.
So are you saying that a denon 4500/6500 is better performing as a processor than the 8805?
 
I think it depends on what the listener prefers, there’s a perception out there that nothing other than a perfectly flat graph matters without even listening to it. As people tastes, ears and rooms come into play it’s simply not the case, what sounds the best is NOT what costs the most it’s NOT what has the flattest graph the ONLY thing that sounds the best is what you and your ears prefer.. It’s why it’s so important to actually listen for yourself in your own environment, what others think and what graphs say is good to a point and give you a nice warm smug feeling, but how it actually sounds is really all that matters... Doesn’t matter if it’s technically broken and has no pick panther head as long as you prefer it and it has the features you like, jobs a good’un...
 
So are you saying that a denon 4500/6500 is better performing as a processor than the 8805?

According to tests, the Denons AVR do not have the 7705 & 8805 issue of 14khz roll off. Those two models haven't been tested but from other Denons (3600, 4700) they are ruler flat to 20khz. Possibly because D&M have B&W speakers which have a +10db boost in the HF so their frequency response on the amp is rolled off to compensate for the speakers. The Denon 3600 has surpassed the AV8805 in a few areas.
 
According to tests, the Denons AVR do not have the 7705 & 8805 issue of 14khz roll off. Those two models haven't been tested but from other Denons (3600, 4700) they are ruler flat to 20khz. Possibly because D&M have B&W speakers which have a +10db boost in the HF so their frequency response on the amp is rolled off to compensate for the speakers. The Denon 3600 has surpassed the AV8805 in a few areas.
Yes but forget the graphs which one do you prefer the sound of?
 
Yes but forget the graphs which one do you prefer the sound of?

Haven't heard any of them nor have demoed any of them in my room, amps, or speakers. I would be looking for a similar sound presentation to my Lexicon MC-8. With similar sound toTag Mclaren DAC20 and 8000Q sound presentation for music (I have these)

I did have a Denon years ago, a AVD-2000, I found it a bit forward and lacking warmth.

Only own a Marantz CDP.
 
Yes most the Denon’s are sh*t for music, definitely all the ones I’ve had in the past few years, this is what HDAM brings in for music, have had a few Marantz AVRs too and they’re much better with music, still pretty rubbish compared to a HiFi amp and I hazard a guess compared to the 8000q tbh, I simply use a HiFi Pre or Integrated with most of my AV for music...

Do you know what ‘warmth’ generally is, it’s usually audible colour / i.e. non flat graph, quite often flat graph = technically perfect but quite sterile sound for music that is lacking warmth, great for a recording studio but tiring to actually listen to for any length of time with music. AV sound is different, I find music and AV have different requirements..
 
I don't like warmth per se (have a Arcam alpha 9 and that is a bit too laid back, not exciting to listen to, prefer Audiolab presenstation, but Denon thiness, dunno not quite what I liked. Audiolab is forward a bit but not like the Denon.

I did like the DAC in my Rega CDP " is a 24bit Delta Sigma Rega IC40 affair (said to be a Burr-Brown modified to Rega’s specifications), with an extra power supply for the digital section. The latter uses a toroidal transformer with separate windings for the display and analogue audio stages. Evox film and non-polarised electrolytic capacitors can be found in the signal path, with low impedance caps used in the power supplies. "
 
According to tests, the Denons AVR do not have the 7705 & 8805 issue of 14khz roll off. Those two models haven't been tested but from other Denons (3600, 4700) they are ruler flat to 20khz. Possibly because D&M have B&W speakers which have a +10db boost in the HF so their frequency response on the amp is rolled off to compensate for the speakers. The Denon 3600 has surpassed the AV8805 in a few areas.

This 14khz roll off is utter BS.

I have REW graphs from when I had an 8805, Lyngdorf and now trinnov, the high frequency roll off is virtually the same on all of them.

Why you keep regurgitating the same thing without ever hearing one I have no idea.
 
This 14khz roll off is utter BS.

I have REW graphs from when I had an 8805, Lyngdorf and and trinnov, the high frequency roll off is virtually the same on all of them.

From the speakers or the pre outs?

From another site, older Marantz model which does show the same thing as 8805 and 7705

 
From the speakers or the pre outs?

From the speakers, you don’t listen to the pre outs do you? Could be where you are going wrong I guess?
 
From the speakers, you don’t listen to the pre outs do you? Could be where you are going wrong I guess?

When testing amp, you test the amp, not the speakers in room response, corrected or bypassed. Too many variables.

The amp should be flat 20-20khz at pre outs. Room EQ disabled, no DSP, want it to be like a stereo analogue amp, nothing in the way.
 
What you'll probably find is your amp probably boosts HF to compensate for the amps native 14khz roll off?
 
What you'll probably find is your amp probably boosts HF to compensate for the amps native 14khz roll off?

Nope, I have REW graphs with no EQ applied.
 
What you'll probably find is your amp probably boosts HF to compensate for the amps native 14khz roll off?

I’d also read the following so you can also see how insignificant anything above 12khz really is anyway

 
Do your speakers have a HF boost, are they flat?

Problem is getting response after it leaves the amp is not the right way.
 
I’d also read the following so you can also see how insignificant anything above 12khz really is anyway



In that case Bose Lifestyle is ok? as they suffer from speakers HF roll off too. If I wanted a forced THX cinema re-eq, I'd use it. But I don't, and I do notice the difference between on and off.

Not sure where cinema re-eq starts rolling off.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Is 4K Blu-ray Worth It?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom